Tire/Wheel Size Pros&Cons for offroading?

[RonJR]

What brand do you have?

I'm noticing as I search for the 255 that my choices drop dramatically.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

BFG KO2, as per my signature line. I had to special order them through Discount Tire. Same price, but pay in advance and wait a week.

 

[rickashay]

Snow is better done with a skinny tire and good sipped thread. Once the sierra cement gets too deep you won't be able to go forward regardless.

Here is whole description of why to chose a narrow tire for most things (except deep sand and mud)
Expeditions West: Tire Selection for Expedition Travel
(ever notice how expedition vehicles have narrow tires?)

Not trying to be confrontational in anyway but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Maybe justifiable in hard-packed/icey snow, I would also agree that a skinny tire with siping will perform best. I can't say I've ever seen a truck on narrow tires go farther down a trail than that of one on wide tires. Despite some of the "facts" and MS Paint drawings, I am still bias. And if airing down to 15 PSI shouldnt be considered "airing down", I don't know what is. I will tell you that I have seen wide tires in deep snow go a hell of a lot farther down the trail, than an equivalent sized tire that is more narrow.

But if you don't ever find yourself in that type of terrain where flotation is important, by all means, go narrow. It will be a quieter tire (apples to apples in regards to tread pattern) and get better fuel economy. Again goes back to my statement about being honest with yourself and your uses. I just really really don't like the statements in that article saying a skinnier tire is best for all offroad conditions. It is absolutely NOT... How many King of the Hammers trucks do you see on 255's?

Wheel offset will be the key in terms of if and where you will rub the tires. I'm willing to bet you can run a 285 on these without lift with proper wheel specs and some good plastic trimming. Might throw the 35's on the 4Runner this weekend with no lift and see where the problem points are!

 

[Bumbo]

Suspension lifts only help with rubbing on the street. A body lift is the only thing that keeps you from rubbing on your wheel wells unless you drop bumpstops or hammer your wheel wells in. I agree about building your rig and suspension setup around your tires. Your decision on tires comes from what you plan on driving over. If you are a dedicated offroader and can do a bit of work, 35's are doable. 34's like 285/75r17 and 305/70r17 are a tad thinner than 35's, not much shorter, and can pretty easily fit if you have a dremel and a hammer and do a body mount chop. 33's (285/70r17 and their thinner varieties) Easy to fit with a basic lift and possible a BMC.

I had no problem driving on a 2k mile trip through Colorado and all the mountains to Moab and back with 33's and my V8 (stock gears). Neither did my brothers FJ (V6 and stock gears and 34" mud terrains) and neither did my friend's FJ (V6, stock gears, and 35" mud terrains). It all depends what you want to put up with. Even all our gas mileages were within 2-3mpg of eachother. My 23 gallon tank was awesome though.

For me, I'm going with 35's next.

I'm not saying it wont work, but in comparison to a 100% stock truck it can feels like you are in the wrong gear all the time. I go back and forth between my two sets of tires and too large feels like i'm lugging the motor.

At this point I am just going to say its science and not personal preference. There comes a point where gearing is necessary... but choosing to do it right is a whole different conversation.

 

[Bumbo]

Thanks! great reference and good read. For my needs, it's looking like a narrower tire than a 285 would be what I want... Now I just have to find one I like for SoCal. I would love to get a 265/75 but that doesn't seem to be common. so it might have to be the smaller 265/70 or skinnier 255/75.

The main reason I would still want the 265 vs 255 is more stability on the highway at higher speeds. I do like to drive my rigs fast
:lookout:
I'm used to longer trucks, so I'm going to have to be a little more careful with the 4runner.

My 255 is pretty rock solid... if anything its even more solid than my stock 265 road tire. The sidewalls are much stiffer on my 255 MT making the overall driving experience even on road more stable.

Regarding driving the rig fast... ill just make a general comment that the larger tire you get, and the more rotational mass and tire weight you have, the "fatter" its going to feel. I could actually feel the difference in un-sprung weight between my OEM road tire size and these MTs.

Getting heavy tires will change the way it drives, and if you like a fast nimble/agile car, you should be watching the weight because its going to take away from what you might like.

255/75/17

 

[Inv4drZm]

I'd like to see a "blind" driving comparison test between a 255 BFG all terrain for example and a 285 BFG all terrain.

 

[Bumbo]

I'd like to see a "blind" driving comparison test between a 255 BFG all terrain for example and a 285 BFG all terrain.

Sure same here, but you can still get a 255 and 285 in the same finished diameter...

Meaning that from a gearing standpoint it would be the same... and the only difference is the feel of the un-spring / rotational weight.

After 200k miles on my rig, I feel small changes... I also have multiple sets of rims and tires so I have been swapping between my road and off-road set and its quite noticeable.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Sure same here, but you can still get a 255 and 285 in the same finished diameter...

Meaning that from a gearing standpoint it would be the same... and the only difference is the feel of the un-spring / rotational weight.

Exactly what I was wanting to see. Same load range, same diameter, same tread, only difference being their widths and corresponding weight. I'm just saying I doubt there is a noticeable difference to 90% of people.

The two sizes are closer spec wise than one might think:

• A 255/80r17 Load range E ST Maxx 32.8" diameter weights 58lbs
  
• A 285/70/17 Load range E ST Maxx 32.99" diameter weighs 60lbs.

.2" taller, 2 pounds heavier, and 30mm wider than 255.


For comparison:

• A 295/70/17 Load range E ST Maxx 33.23" diameter weighs 66lbs.

.24" taller, 6 pounds heavier, and only 10mm wider than 285.


The 2 lbs rotational mass between the 255 and 285 isn't much. And neither is the .1" height for gearing comparison. The width, 1.2" per tire (+10% for all 4 tires) of added rolling resistance might actually have the most effect.

2lbs difference in a 85lb wheel tire rotation combo is only +2.3% each corner.

But I digress...

 

[techoguy]

[MENTION=144483]Bumbo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134884]RonJR[/MENTION] thanks for the pics and info regarding your tires.

Bumbo,
as for driving fast, i've always had lifted trucks, so not too unfamiliar with how the tires make it react but on those trucks they were the wider tires and the truck was longer, so it could stay pretty planted (for trucks) through turns. With the t4r having a much shorter wheel base, narrower, and then potentially narrower tires, i just think about tire roll more. But, I haven't driven a t4r yet with a lift and tires like that so it's only what I'm thinking Soon I'll know myself. Thanks again for the info and comments.

My biggest issue now is trying to find an 8" wide rim with the offset and look I want. Most of the rims i'm seeing that I like are 9" wide.

 

[Porqupine82]

Alright, experienced overlanders, trail guys, I'm looking for your expertise and advice. I'm hoping this will be good information for others to reference as well.

I'm working on a lift and new wheel/tire combo for my 04 4runner. I've been reading all over this forum and other sites to get more information. There is some great info on this site but one thing I haven't been able to find out is how does tire/wheel selection affect offroading ability? I don't mean brand etc, but sizing, offset, etc.

In my case,
lift: icon stage 2 setup with TC UCAs set to 3"/2" I'm looking at
Wheels: Pro Comp 36 wheels 17x9 -6 offset (4.75" backspace) or ?
Tires: 285/70-17, 275/70-17, or 265/70-17.

1) What do you guys think about a wider rim (9" vs 8")? How does that affect running lower pressure, wheel grinding, etc? I actually wanted 8" but the rim I like comes in 9" wide.

2) While i'm sure taller tires are better, at what point is rubbing more of a concern? how do you know if your setup will rub with full travel vs just driving on the street? In my case, is 285/70-17 going to cause too much rubbing with full travel, would it be better to stick with 275 or 265?

3) What concerns/benefits should be considered between tire widths if any?

Thanks for all the help!

As @S_p_a_r_k_y stated I am running 255/80/17s on SCS F5 wheels and absolutely LOVE them. I am also on the stage 2 icon lift. For any overlander I would recommend this tire. If you look at camel trophy trucks you'll notice their tire width... They did fine. The fuel mileage isn't hit as hard, it's easier on steering components, and has never failed me on or off road. It looks good too in my opinion.. These are Cooper discoverer STMaxx tires wheels are SCS F5s, 17x8.5 -10mm offset.

 

[Porqupine82]

Not trying to be confrontational in anyway but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Maybe justifiable in hard-packed/icey snow, I would also agree that a skinny tire with siping will perform best. I can't say I've ever seen a truck on narrow tires go farther down a trail than that of one on wide tires. Despite some of the "facts" and MS Paint drawings, I am still bias. And if airing down to 15 PSI shouldnt be considered "airing down", I don't know what is. I will tell you that I have seen wide tires in deep snow go a hell of a lot farther down the trail, than an equivalent sized tire that is more narrow.

But if you don't ever find yourself in that type of terrain where flotation is important, by all means, go narrow. It will be a quieter tire (apples to apples in regards to tread pattern) and get better fuel economy. Again goes back to my statement about being honest with yourself and your uses. I just really really don't like the statements in that article saying a skinnier tire is best for all offroad conditions. It is absolutely NOT... How many King of the Hammers trucks do you see on 255's?

Wheel offset will be the key in terms of if and where you will rub the tires. I'm willing to bet you can run a 285 on these without lift with proper wheel specs and some good plastic trimming. Might throw the 35's on the 4Runner this weekend with no lift and see where the problem points are!

I agree that 255 is not the end all be all tire of off-road, but this guy asked about an overland tire, which is not even remotely related to the King of Hammers races. I directed him to the camel trophy races which is MUCH more overland oriented than the KOH. In my opinion for a 4runner or Tacoma, the 255/80 IS the best width for overlanding.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I agree that 255 is not the end all be all tire of off-road, but this guy asked about an overland tire, which is not even remotely related to the King of Hammers races. I directed him to the camel trophy races which is MUCH more overland oriented than the KOH. In my opinion for a 4runner or Tacoma, the 255/80 IS the best width for overlanding.

I don't remember him specifically asking about overland?

 

[BlairB]

FWIW I love my 255/80/17's! Great all around tire size. Just put my 2nd set on last week.

 

[rickashay]

I agree that 255 is not the end all be all tire of off-road, but this guy asked about an overland tire, which is not even remotely related to the King of Hammers races. I directed him to the camel trophy races which is MUCH more overland oriented than the KOH. In my opinion for a 4runner or Tacoma, the 255/80 IS the best width for overlanding.

I must have missed the "overland tire" quote: I thought he was asking, in general about tires and what is better: more ground clearance (taller tire) or width of tire. I have simply been dictating that tire what tire size is best depends on your intended uses, not what one person says "is the best size/tire". I have been approaching it from a broader perspective I guess. In relation to the 255 and KOH reference, I was specifically referencing the article posted where it says a skinnier tire is best. I was only trying to prove my point that like anything else, all modifications (tires included) will have pros and cons. Everything we do to our trucks will increase performance in one area, while taking away something in return. A tall skinny tire is an excellent choice if your specific uses require a tall-skinny-tire. But it is certainly not the best tire profile in all situations, like if your plowing deep snow or crawling boulders in the desert.

Not trying to argue or derail the thread. Back on topic....

 

[techoguy]

As @S_p_a_r_k_y stated I am running 255/80/17s on SCS F5 wheels and absolutely LOVE them. I am also on the stage 2 icon lift. For any overlander I would recommend this tire. If you look at camel trophy trucks you'll notice their tire width... They did fine. The fuel mileage isn't hit as hard, it's easier on steering components, and has never failed me on or off road. It looks good too in my opinion.. These are Cooper discoverer STMaxx tires wheels are SCS F5s, 17x8.5 -10mm offset.

Thanks for the response, disregard my PM, didn't see the tire listed. Just curious what did you have to trim to get these to fit? And how do you compare the STMaxx to the AT3? Thanks!

 

[Porqupine82]

I don't remember him specifically asking about overland?

His opening line reads "Alright, experienced overlanders, trail guys, I'm looking for your expertise and advice."

 

[Porqupine82]

I must have missed the "overland tire" quote: I thought he was asking, in general about tires and what is better: more ground clearance (taller tire) or width of tire. I have simply been dictating that tire what tire size is best depends on your intended uses, not what one person says "is the best size/tire". I have been approaching it from a broader perspective I guess. In relation to the 255 and KOH reference, I was specifically referencing the article posted where it says a skinnier tire is best. I was only trying to prove my point that like anything else, all modifications (tires included) will have pros and cons. Everything we do to our trucks will increase performance in one area, while taking away something in return. A tall skinny tire is an excellent choice if your specific uses require a tall-skinny-tire. But it is certainly not the best tire profile in all situations, like if your plowing deep snow or crawling boulders in the desert.

Not trying to argue or derail the thread. Back on topic....

This isn't argument! It's discussion his opening line to the entire thread said "Alright, experienced overlanders, trail guys, I'm looking for your expertise and advice." So I took that as meaning he was looking for an overland tire

 

[Inv4drZm]

Sorry, i meant to say exclusively instead of specifically.


More fuel for the tire:

Its a well documented fact that for bicycle tires, wider tires have less rolling resistance. What?

Wider tires have less sidewall deflection because their greater surface area puts less pressure on their sidewalls while rolling down the road. This supports the backwards idea that wider tires get better gas mileage! I would like to see more research into this theory with regards to fullsize tires.

Offroad wise I haven't seen this mentioned; wider tires, with their large contact patch, have more opportunity to grip on tractionless sections of the trail. They also can flex over and around bumps or small rocks/roots more aiding in increased traction around the obstacle.

I'm just trying to say its pointless to argue which one is better for what when its practically splitting hairs. Each has a few pros and cons in a controlled environment, but when you compare them mounted on different vehicles with different weights, weight distribution, wheelbases, road conditions, driver techniques - theories start to fall apart. There are just way too many variables to state which one is the best for what scenario over the internet.

However, I'm all for recommendations based from personal experiences.

 

[Porqupine82]

Thanks for the response, disregard my PM, didn't see the tire listed. Just curious what did you have to trim to get these to fit? And how do you compare the STMaxx to the AT3? Thanks!

I didn't trim anything. Removed my front mud flaps... From the reviews I read about the tire before purchasing, I was highly impressed. I know nothing about the AT3 so I can't comment. I will never purchase another tire for my 4runner tho. I am that happy with it

 

[Porqupine82]

Sorry, i meant to say exclusively instead of specifically.


More fuel for the tire:

Its a well documented fact that for bicycle tires, wider tires have less rolling resistance. What?

Wider tires have less sidewall deflection because their greater surface area puts less pressure on their sidewalls while rolling down the road. This supports the backwards idea that wider tires get better gas mileage! I would like to see more research into this theory with regards to fullsize tires.

Offroad wise I haven't seen this mentioned; wider tires, with their large contact patch, have more opportunity to grip on tractionless sections of the trail. They also can flex over and around bumps or small rocks/roots more aiding in increased traction around the obstacle.

I'm just trying to say its pointless to argue which one is better for what when its practically splitting hairs. Each has a few pros and cons in a controlled environment, but when you compare them mounted on different vehicles with different weights, weight distribution, wheelbases, road conditions, driver techniques - theories start to fall apart. There are just way too many variables to state which one is the best for what scenario over the internet.

However, I'm all for recommendations based from personal experiences.

I am no physicist so I won't argue with your statements, as they very well may be true... but I do know my last 3 fill ups I got EXACTLY 17.3, 16.6 and 17.2 mpg from my mathematical calculations (not my dashboard thing, it reads around 18.5 all the time) this is with a 150 lb roof top tent air dam in my roof. the fuel savings alone justify my choice in a skinny tire.

 

[Urbanrunner716]

[MENTION=63060]rickashay[/MENTION] and [MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION]
Thanks for the info. I had the same thought that right around 33" is what I want. I guess now the question is what width? I was set on 285/70-17 but then I was reading about the BMC and didn't really want to have to do that.

So when most people go with an added offset of about 1-1.5" (spacer or new rims) with 285s what kind of mods do you usually have to do so there is no rubbing?

I'm sure, taking off the mud flaps, but what other mods? How likely do I have to do the BMC?

If going with a 265 or 255 at the same height helps avoid that, I would probably lean towards those.

Thanks!

I don't have 285s but my 275/65r18 (32.something) rub on the body mount a good bit when wheeling. I also have 1.25 spidertrax and the sway bar is still connected. So the widest I would go is a 275. My next size is gonna be 275/70r18 which is 33.3 and not nearly as wide as a 285. For rubbing just trim and move the fender liner forward. Just adding another good tire size to the endless selection of sizes