Torque Converter replacement or?

[awarrick]

Greetings gentlemen (and ladies)
I have a gen 4, V8 4WD with 150k miles on it and my torque converter is going. It has the dreaded rumble strip symptoms under a load, typically going up small inclines. We've had the driveshaft balanced as we thought perhaps that might help. It didn't. I've heard some folks use, "shudder fix" with a transmission fluid change and the problem seems to go away. I have 2 concerns with that. One, I'm not sure of the condition of the transmission fluid. If it is old (and I can't recall when or if it has been changed) I don't want to drain it out as it might create more problems, like a slipping transmission. Two, is using this method just slapping a band-aid on a bigger problem?
I work in the automobile industry and have no shortage of clients who own shops who are willing to help. i've owned the car since it was basically new. I want to keep it as long as possible. I love that truck. So, with that being said, I was thinking of just replacing the torque converter, itself, to keep costs down. A friend of mine said, what if the tranny goes out a year later? Then, you've wasted your money. He said, if I was planning to sell the truck, that replacing the torque converter alone would be a good move. But since I plan to keep it, he thinks installing a re-manufactured transmission makes more sense, although more money. At least it would have some kind of warranty and a peace of mind.
I am beginning to think this might be the way to go. We don't use the truck as a daily driver. We use it for weekend runs, road trips, vacations and towing trailers.
I just wanted to get your 2 cents on this and although it costs less, not really interested in buying one from a salvage yard, craigslist, etc. If I'm going to do this, I want it done where I do have that warranty and not worry about it going out again.
thoughts??

thanks!!

 

[Brian3676]

Don't do a flush, just do at least 2 drain and fills, the 2nd time use the shudder fix. I have seen it work many times

 

[Supersonic]

We use it for weekend runs, road trips, vacations and towing trailers.

Sounds like you want something you'll have the utmost confidence in, and if it's doable within your budget, than get one with the warranty. I like these quick tip write ups because they tell preventive measures too,
Beef Up the A750F Transmission in Your FJ Cruiser for Off-roading and I found their warranty page
ETE Reman Warranty Info | Remanufactured Transmissions & Transfer Cases

That said, I'd think at 150k and you haven't been driving it hard, I'd try to fix it with a new filter and changing out the fluid as much as possible. And use the additive's that help, I used the Lucas transmission conditioner

And if the results are satisfactory, try the ETE Reman tips ;

Install a deep aluminum pan:...Add a hand-held electronic transmission tuner:...Install an aftermarket transmission cooler

I'm going to look into these too, but the plan is to park mine for the winter and the budget says "slow"...

 

[Falcon3]

Don’t let people scare you. Go to the dealership and get a transmission fluid exchange. Or do it yourself with the transmission line method. However, since it seems you’re concerned, just have the dealership do it. My truck had 170k when it had the exact problems yours has. I had a dealership do an exchange and I’ve put 10k on it since, including hot weather off roadies and towing. It shifts perfectly and I have no worries that it will die prematurely.

DO NOT waste money on a new torque converter. Spend the $300 on new fluid done the right way (the machine the dealership will use replaces fluid at the rate it comes out and it’s prewarmed to make sure the levels are correct. It doesn’t force fluid in or out at pressure.)

 

[Supersonic]

Found this for future reference and you can add your email at the link for those who may want the earliest opportunity to get one;
Toyota A750E, A750F Deep Transmission Pan, In Development
https://www.yourcovers.com/transpan_11112.php

PML will be designing and manufacturing a deep transmission pan for the Toyota A750E, A750F transmission. This new PML transmission pan would have heavy duty construction, extra capacity, drain, and cooling fins. Design and development will begin early 2018.

We are collecting information about any clearance issues on 4x4 or RWD vehicles. Let us know what you have.

I'd guess the v8 exhaust would be an issue. I have the v6 and there is frame rails at the front and rear that required I use the drain plug as opposed to loosening the pan enough to let one corner drain some fluid.

 

[bootheel]

I’d definitely try a fluid exchange and filter before I would pull the tranny.

 

[Ratubbs]

Don’t let people scare you. Go to the dealership and get a transmission fluid exchange. Or do it yourself with the transmission line method. However, since it seems you’re concerned, just have the dealership do it. My truck had 170k when it had the exact problems yours has. I had a dealership do an exchange and I’ve put 10k on it since, including hot weather off roadies and towing. It shifts perfectly and I have no worries that it will die prematurely.



DO NOT waste money on a new torque converter. Spend the $300 on new fluid done the right way (the machine the dealership will use replaces fluid at the rate it comes out and it’s prewarmed to make sure the levels are correct. It doesn’t force fluid in or out at pressure.)

What did the Stealership charge for this exchange ?


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[Falcon3]

What did the Stealership charge for this exchange ?


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Around $250 parts and labor, and they used 15 qts of WS which would have been $150 in oil costs by itself. I had to call around, a couple places wanted $300 and up.

The internet is full of stories about doing fluid changes and then having a transmission die, and that may well happen, but it’s likely to be a function of the transmission going bad prior to the fluid change than the change itself.

 

[Miranthis]

What did the Stealership charge for this exchange ?
[snip]

I did a poll a month or so ago here in the KC area and the results were:

"Just did a poll of the 4 major Toyota stealerships in my area (KC Metro) + 1 in Lawrence KS for this service to see if it was worth doing myself. The 5 quoted prices, all for the same full flush and refill using the machine were:

$299.95,
$289.99,
$269.00,
$236 and
$179.98.

Ebay still shows something like $109 or so for 12 quarts of WS ATF. So, that is between $71 and $190.95 for the labor and supplies."

the link for the ATF exchange thread is here.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...change-using-cooling-line-14.html#post2834720

 

[Ratubbs]

Thanks , I ended up going to the dealership and getting it done ... $165 ... not bad I thought


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[Falcon3]

Thanks , I ended up going to the dealership and getting it done ... $165 ... not bad I thought


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How’s the rumble strip? Did it improve?

 

[Schmiegle]

How’s the rumble strip? Did it improve?

Not the OP but I’ve been experiencing a similar situation with my 05 V8.

Started drain and fills around 130k & 150k even though I was not experiencing any shudder.

Currently at 170k, I began experiencing shudder between 45-60.

Found these threads and pulled the trigger on a full flush, as a last resort before cracking the transmission.

The shudder has been ALMOST eliminated for all but the intermittent/occasional very slow acceleration. I’ll continue to monitor for further shudder.

If it returns, I see three options.

1. R&R Torque converter. $800 part + 6.5-8 hrs labor. Call it $1300-1500?

2. R&R full transmission with used. $2500?

3. R&R full transmission with new. $4000?

My gut tells me a torque converter (Option 1) is the best route because 1. The trans gears themselves have shown no issue/metal in the previous drain and fills. I know the devil I know. Also, a used transmission is risky because I know my driving habits, (owned since 20k). And 2. I’m not spending the value of the truck while the trans is still shifting smooth with no noise or issues. If the new TC causes issues with the old trans to become known, option 2 plus the sunk costs of option 1 are break even compared to option 3.

I’m borderline about being proactive here and just replacing the TC. With the bigger tires (275/75-17s) and higher power (k&n CAI), it makes sense the TC would be the weakest link under marginally more stress. Maybe I’ll get a quote for the TC R&R just ensure bringing this baby over 200k+ and maybe over 300k...

All the best,

Schmiegle

 

[AuSeeker]

Not the OP but I’ve been experiencing a similar situation with my 05 V8.

Started drain and fills around 130k & 150k even though I was not experiencing any shudder.

Currently at 170k, I began experiencing shudder between 45-60.

Found these threads and pulled the trigger on a full flush, as a last resort before cracking the transmission.

The shudder has been ALMOST eliminated for all but the intermittent/occasional very slow acceleration. I’ll continue to monitor for further shudder.

If it returns, I see three options.

1. R&R Torque converter. $800 part + 6.5-8 hrs labor. Call it $1300-1500?

2. R&R full transmission with used. $2500?

3. R&R full transmission with new. $4000?

My gut tells me a torque converter (Option 1) is the best route because 1. The trans gears themselves have shown no issue/metal in the previous drain and fills. I know the devil I know. Also, a used transmission is risky because I know my driving habits, (owned since 20k). And 2. I’m not spending the value of the truck while the trans is still shifting smooth with no noise or issues. If the new TC causes issues with the old trans to become known, option 2 plus the sunk costs of option 1 are break even compared to option 3.

I’m borderline about being proactive here and just replacing the TC. With the bigger tires (275/75-17s) and higher power (k&n CAI), it makes sense the TC would be the weakest link under marginally more stress. Maybe I’ll get a quote for the TC R&R just ensure bringing this baby over 200k+ and maybe over 300k...

All the best,

Schmiegle

Did you along with the fluid exchange/flush add the additive ShudderFixx?

If not I would highly recommend you do so before replacing anything!!

 

[catrains]

well I am not a long time owner of a toyota and how these react on transmissions .not many have had problems .. GM yes..

I was a GM owner for 50 yrs and I do frequent transmission fluid/filter changes and before I do the pan drop on my GM vehicles I do use the shudder fix and other tranny conditioners. I keep my vehicles over 10 yrs.
My current vehicles owned since new 1996 and 2000 ... gm .. I have never had any transmission problems because the fluid is kept clean and replacing in a GM vehicle particles will mess up the torque converter.. so the fluid changes and the conditioner helps protect the internals. GM vehicles the first pan drop is the nastiest .. I do this 20-30K miles .. also no leaks ..

with my 2 years learning about the Toyota it does appear that 100K miles is when to do this fluid change ... I most likely will drop the tranny pan clean it all up and the screen and then add the transmission additive . Toyota transmissions do not have a filter only a screen so these do not create damaging debris like GM but the Toyota fluid does need replacing due to fluid breakdown ..

I also @100K will do 3 fluid changes after the pan drop run the vehicle a 1000 miles..then replace the fluid again..

on a GM tranny if the fluid is not changed after 100K plus miles many have had problems because of the GM transmission operation creates debris and the new fluid will loosen up all that goop..

 

[Schmiegle]

Did you along with the fluid exchange/flush add the additive ShudderFixx?

If not I would highly recommend you do so before replacing anything!!

Hadn’t heard of this! Need to investigate...

Might save me from a new TC! Thanks!

 

[AuSeeker]

Hadn’t heard of this! Need to investigate...

Might save me from a new TC! Thanks!

You're welcome, here's a link to what it looks like, you can find it at most auto parts store instead of ordering online, easy to do just add it via the fill plug on the right/passenger side of the transmission.

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-19610-Tranny-Instant-Shudder/dp/B0002JMLQU

 

[Schmiegle]

Update:

28 degree F temps this morning and on the way to work, the transmission shudder returned with a vengeance. Once fluid was warm the shudder was all but gone by the time I got to work. I can’t have my truck running like this all winter.

Called the dealership for an estimate: $2300 for a new TC installed.

Called a local recommended transmission shop to evaluate and diagnose.

Should hear more this afternoon.
Expecting a TC R&R at minimum.
New/Rebuilt transmission in a worst case scenario.

More to follow...

 

[Falcon3]

Did you use ShudderFixx or Lubeguard with the fluid exchange? Have you tried Maxlife instead of WS?

If not it’s definitely worth it. A lot of folks believe the shudder is from the TC having trouble locking up and slipping. If you had fluid in there that got old and gummed up the clutches or the solenoids you need something that will loosen them up. Many folks believe that Toyota WS fluid doesn’t have the detergent capability to do this. Lubeguard Red does, as does Valvoline Maxlife ATF. Before spending thousands, it may be worth the $30 ($12 for a bottle of Lubeguard Red and $18 for a gallon of Maxlife ATF) to do one more drain and fill to see it that can loosen things up. Give it at least 1000 miles to do the job with several long heat cycles.

 

[Schmiegle]

Nope haven’t tried Shudder Fix YET...

Plot thickens with a call from the Transmission shop.

Transmission shop said the transmission is good.

But...
ECU is returning a code, labeling cylinder #4 as misfiring. Shop owner highly recommends running this down (coilpack/plug/valves/fuel injector) before cracking the transmission... He said a misfiring engine can cause this rumbling/shudder issue and is worth running down first.

Last year, my truck went into limpmode on a road trip. I replaced all 8 coilpacks and plugs. This rumble/shudder is not the same as limpmode so I’m still not convinced the TC isn’t bad.

So I think I’ll be taking the truck into another shop to check/set the valvetrain. The issue this morning when running cold and going away when hot, could be inline with a stuck/leaking valve, I guess.

Sorry for the thread jack, as this might not turn out to be Torque Converter/Transmission related at all... hah!

 

[BC4runner06]

Nope haven’t tried Shudder Fix YET...

Plot thickens with a call from the Transmission shop.

Transmission shop said the transmission is good.

But...
ECU is returning a code, labeling cylinder #4 as misfiring. Shop owner highly recommends running this down (coilpack/plug/valves/fuel injector) before cracking the transmission... He said a misfiring engine can cause this rumbling/shudder issue and is worth running down first.

Last year, my truck went into limpmode on a road trip. I replaced all 8 coilpacks and plugs. This rumble/shudder is not the same as limpmode so I’m still not convinced the TC isn’t bad.

So I think I’ll be taking the truck into another shop to check/set the valvetrain. The issue this morning when running cold and going away when hot, could be inline with a stuck/leaking valve, I guess.

Sorry for the thread jack, as this might not turn out to be Torque Converter/Transmission related at all... hah!

You ever find out what your issue was?? I'm in the same boat and want to figure it out in the least expensive to most expensive way