towing sag

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keysfisherman

New member
Howdy folks,

I've been around here for a few weeks trying to read up on these trucks before I buy and finally joined the forum.

I'm in the market for a new truck and thinking very strongly about the new T4R, however it seems like every towing picture I see, the rear is sagging quite a bit. I have a 21' Maverick Master Angler flats boat that I tow quite often and it's not exactly the lightest thing out there. My 2002 GMC Envoy with Z71 suspension doesn't sag a bit, neither does the 2004 Toyota Sequoia that tows it as well.

My question for y'all is, has anyone seemed to decrease this sag for better towing?

The towing capacity seems fine on these trucks and from what I have read, has anyone had a problem with that either? Mainly with boats and pulling them out of ramps.

Thanks
 
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It just looked a little excessive to be towing my boat long distances as the sag looked to be below an even ride height in the rear to the front

As for sag below even ride height...issues:

1) stress on springs when towing long distances
2) lowers trailer
a) drags over speed bumps (seen it happen on an F-150, pretty funny actually)
b) can't use steep ramps
3) MPG


Thanks for the advice on the airbags. I was trying to avoid that if at all possible. Do any members tow boats on here without those?
 
I agree with you that some of the pics of guys towing with thier T4R's have some sag going on. IMHO, it seems most prevalent with guys towing camp trailers. I don't think it's the camp trailer weight, it's probably with the extra stuff crammed into the back of the vehicle.

What does your boat weigh? Single axle or tandem axle trailer?

I've towed my 20' Malibu with a single axle trailer and my brothers 20' Nautique with a tandem axle trailer--both boat/trailer combos weigh about the same...3500# fully loaded with gas. With regards to this, the single axle trailer puts more "sag" on the T4R than the tandem trailer does. Single axle, it's level for the most part, tandem trailer probably has about 1" less of rear suspension compression.

When you add 3 people and all the crap 2 women need for a day on the water, the rear end (with either the single or the tandem trailer) is sagged down.
 
Towing

For towing a boat on the heavy side and if you are on anything but level road, kick it down a gear. When removing from the lake, river, etc and there is an incline over about 20 degrees switch into 4 Wheel drive for better traction, while removing the boat.
 
Single axle, probably 3500# full weight and trailer, than there's the coolers in the truck (full down with food, etc and back with fish), toolbox, luggage, and the adult refreshments for on the boat and at the house.

I asked the same question to some guys who tow a smaller boat with it (same everything, just 18, not 21; therefore lighter) and they say their 18 pulls fine, but might want to go with a Sequoia or other V8 to pull the 21.

I was mainly hoping that someone had tried pulling similar weight long distances. I love the 4runners, especially around town, but I might need something a little beefier, or do the airlift mod some guys were talking about; I just have a hard time thinking about doing something like that every time I want to tow.

Barry694 said:
For towing a boat on the heavy side and if you are on anything but level road, kick it down a gear. When removing from the lake, river, etc and there is an incline over about 20 degrees switch into 4 Wheel drive for better traction, while removing the boat.
Click to expand...

The power isn't what I'm worried about, I pull it with my I6 now just fine in 2wd (locking diff and 3.73 gears) only had to put it in 4wd once (low tide, steep ramp, full gas). I'm worried about the sag that it seems to cause, granted though it's just pictures, just need reassurance that it doesn't
 
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I pulled 4400 lbs on a dual axle trailer over 1,000 miles not too long ago. I had the back of the 4Runner loaded and my son and his friend with me. The 4Runner had little sag at all. It all depends on tongue weight.
 
It's got off road suspension

Yes - all stock my runner does sag when towing. However, the suspension sits high to begin with and is set up for traveling across rough uneven terrain.

From the driver seat, this sag is not noticeably at all. Probably due to the above mentioned suspension. I've driven tow trucks and know what it's like to have the front wheels seem to float off the ground while not being able to see over the hood. This is not the case with this vehicle.

Yes - we load up everything including the kitchen sink lol.

Family
Dogs
Firewood
genset
Food
1000 items my wife seems to need every trip (she's always wright).

Think back to the 60's if you can. Families would load up and drive 100's of miles one way to camp/fish while towing heavy boats or campers. Vehicles weighed around 2,500 lbs back then. They were large yet light unless you had a Cadillac or Lincoln. Now our average truck or SUV weighs >6,000 lbs.

Short answer is that the runner is a fine tow vehicle. The sag is a non issue for me.
 
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/92013-antman-s-thread.html

Here's the link to the airbag mod.

I don't plan on doing the airbag to mine. Maybe in the future, but it's not something that needs to be done in order to tow and get the job done.

As to some of your questions:

1) stress on springs when towing long distances I wouldn't worry about this at all.
2) lowers trailer I run mine with a 2" drop. If your tongue is too low, run a 0" drop
a) drags over speed bumps Since my boat is a true inboard, my main issue with dragging is the prop guard area of the rear. I might get an occasional drag on the drag plates when leaving a parking lot that has a steep decline down to the actual road. Attacking it at an angle minimizes the issue.
b) can't use steep ramps Never had an issue. In fact, I've never put it in 4x4 exiting wet ramps with some moss/slime on them.
3) MPG It sucks, but it's relative. The Sequoia with the 5.7 is obviously going to tow with more authority, but it's probably going to average 12mpg. I average 16 MPG towing at 60 mph. If going up an incline and it kicks down from 5 to 4, I'll manually put it in 4 to keep it there until it levels out just to keep it from doing the 5-4-5-4 hunt for the right gear.
 
1engineer said:
I pulled 4400 lbs on a dual axle trailer over 1,000 miles not too long ago. I had the back of the 4Runner loaded and my son and his friend with me. The 4Runner had little sag at all. It all depends on tongue weight.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll try to see what the tongue weight is. I like my 21 and don't wanna trade it for an 18!

Biggcrisp said:
Yes - all stock my runner does sag when towing. However, the suspension sits high to begin with and is set up for traveling across rough uneven terrain.

From the driver seat, this sag is not noticeably at all. Probably due to the above mentioned suspension. I've driven tow trucks and know what it's like to have the front wheels seem to float off the ground while not being able to see over the hood. This is not the case with this vehicle.

Yes - we load up everything including the kitchen sink lol.

Family
Dogs
Firewood
genset
Food
1000 items my wife seems to need every trip (she's always wright).

Think back to the 60's if you can. Families would load up and drive 100's of miles one way to camp/fish while towing heavy boats or campers. Vehicles weighed around 2,500 lbs back then. They were large yet light unless you had a Cadillac or Lincoln. Now our average truck or SUV weighs >6,000 lbs.

Short answer is that the runner is a fine tow vehicle. The sag is a non issue for me.
Click to expand...


Thanks, that seemed to clear a lot of it up; the main worry is dragging the trailer on the ground over bumps and/or the lip of the ramp.

Thankfully I'm the one who packs the truck, so if it's not in the garage, it doesn't go on the trip! I may have left some things behind that are unneeded. Give my woman a drink and a rod and all is forgiven :)
 
Beefier springs vs bags

I too have an issue towing my boat 21' pontoon with tandem axels. (i'm going to look at the weight when I get home.)

I am curious if anyone has added beefier (stiffer) springs/coils vs airbags? I've never had a bagged system before.

Cost/advantages/complaints???
 
[MENTION=134595]Agent_Smith[/MENTION] there are several options out there for stronger springs (OME, SAW, Toytec) but most are associated with a lift. Airbags are the cheaper way to go if you don't want to lift.
[MENTION=93586]keysfisherman[/MENTION] I tow my 19 foot bowrider (3500lbs) on a single axle trailer with no problem. You won't have any issue with tongue weight. If you do, then your boat is either mismatched with its trailer or not properly positioned on the trailer. As for steep ramps, you'll have no problem bottoming on any reasonably maintained ramp. This truck will do everything your Envoy did and probably do it better.
 
Agent_Smith said:
I too have an issue towing my boat 21' pontoon with tandem axels. (i'm going to look at the weight when I get home.)

I am curious if anyone has added beefier (stiffer) springs/coils vs airbags? I've never had a bagged system before.

Cost/advantages/complaints???
Click to expand...


Search...there's enough reading for 5 days, that answer your concerns..
 
Agent_Smith said:
I too have an issue towing my boat 21' pontoon with tandem axels. (i'm going to look at the weight when I get home.)

I am curious if anyone has added beefier (stiffer) springs/coils vs airbags? I've never had a bagged system before.

Cost/advantages/complaints???
Click to expand...
The max vertical hitch load on a stock 4Runner is 500-lbs, which equates to 10% of a maximum loaded trailer weight of 5000-lbs (see your owner's manual). This is mainly for vehicle stability concerns while cornering. A hitch load of 500-lbs shouldn't cause excessive sag, but I've never personally pulled a trailer that heavy for more than a few feet (I pulled a 24-ft pontoon on dual-axle trailer up a very steep ramp once, but it's because I was the only vehicle there with 4WD).

This is why most trucks still use leaf springs. To increase load capacity all you have do do is add overload leaves which only bear weight when the regular springs are maxed. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a way to do this with a single coil.

Stiffer springs would solve the problem while loaded, but would result in a stiffer ride when unloaded. Only do this if you spend most of your time loaded or plan on adding permanent rear weight (bumper, cargo trays, always have equipment, etc.). Dual-rate springs would also solve the problem, but the only one I know of is a high-lift spring (3"+) by Icon. You could try lightweight lift springs that would lift the rear when unloaded and allow it to settle back level when loaded.

The cheapest option by far would be air bags with manual inflate/deflate valves and a portable air compressor.
 
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X20 on the airbags!!

I have had them in my 07 Xterra for 5 years.

BEST $$ I ever spent on the truck.

I love the X but to can't haul too much with out hitting the bump stops on good bumps.

Now its air it up & GO......

I have a motorcycle hitch carrier I carry several different bikes on 30psi & I can haul my 500# BMW at speed.

My new trick touches ground on Thursday, bags are on the short list.

Enjoy
 
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