Toyota issues "fix" for axle wrap / driveshaft clunky-thumpy

[2013Trail]

Mine is worse when in sport mode and in 4th or 5th gear,. when I get off the gas, coast and then get back on the gas I hear/feel a thud in the driveshaft.
Still waiting to hear from my dealership and Toyota.

So this issue has not been identified in the 2013 models?

 

[Bay33saw]

So this issue has not been identified in the 2013 models?

I guess not, I'm still waiting to hear back from my dealership about how to fix mine

 

[alnem1126]

I got my 4runner back yesterday and it is running so much smoother and better than when I first bought it. No more harsh shifting, the bad engine vibration I was always complaining about and the clunk thump noise. A little issue did occur thou that got me really upset, the service tech punctured a hole on my wet okole seat covers. So the one options is for them to sewing it or something like that which will come out like it never happened. But other than that everything looks fine underneath. So hopefully all the gremlins I had in my truck is gone. I will try to post the invoice I got from the dealer later on tonight.

 

[Bay33saw]

I guess not, I'm still waiting to hear back from my dealership about how to fix mine

Just heard back from my dealership, he is waiting for the Field Representative to have a look at my car and see what he can do, he only stops in once a month so we will have to wait and see. I must say my service manager is very proactive with this.

 

[1engineer]

Mine is worse when in sport mode and in 4th or 5th gear,. when I get off the gas, coast and then get back on the gas I hear/feel a thud in the driveshaft.
Still waiting to hear from my dealership and Toyota.

Are you sure that is your drive shaft and not gear backlash from the gears? In the condition you describe you have to understand what is happening and that is a force transfer condition everywhere. Think of it this way: Imagine two simple gears, one powered, one not and they are meshed together. When one is driven, force is applied on one side of the meshed teeth which causes the other gear to rotate. With me so far? Alright, now start to freewheel the driven gear. This will cause less force to be transmitted and an almost "floating" condition between the meshed teeth down near the root. Now I suddenly accelerate the driven gear, that "space" (backlash) is instantly taken up between the meshed teeth and all is well with the world. That instant that the gear resumes acceleration there will be a transfer of forces and in the condition you describe, it will be felt. It happens to me all the time too. Does it do this if you accelerate gently from freewheel?

(disclaimer: I intentionally left out some of the more technical points to illustrate this condition)

Explanation of backlash:

In mechanical engineering, backlash, sometimes called lash or play, is clearance or lost motion in a mechanism caused by gaps between the parts. One source defines it as the maximum distance through which one part of something can be moved without moving a connected part. An example, in the context of gears and gear trains, is the amount of clearance between mated gear teeth. It can be seen when the direction of movement is reversed and the slack or lost motion is taken up before the reversal of motion is complete. Another example is in a valve train with mechanical tappets, where a certain range of lash is necessary for the valves to work properly.

Depending on the application, backlash may or may not be desirable. It is unavoidable for nearly all reversing mechanical couplings, although its effects can be negated or compensated for. In many applications, the theoretical ideal would be zero backlash, but in actual practice some backlash must be allowed to prevent jamming. Reasons for the presence of backlash include allowing for lubrication, manufacturing errors, deflection under load, and thermal expansion.

 

[Bay33saw]

Are you sure that is your drive shaft and not gear backlash from the gears? In the condition you describe you have to understand what is happening and that is a force transfer condition everywhere. Think of it this way: Imagine two simple gears, one powered, one not and they are meshed together. When one is driven, force is applied on one side of the meshed teeth which causes the other gear to rotate. With me so far? Alright, now start to freewheel the driven gear. This will cause less force to be transmitted and an almost "floating" condition between the meshed teeth down near the root. Now I suddenly accelerate the driven gear, that "space" (backlash) is instantly taken up between the meshed teeth and all is well with the world. That instant that the gear resumes acceleration there will be a transfer of forces and in the condition you describe, it will be felt. It happens to me all the time too. Does it do this if you accelerate gently from freewheel?

(disclaimer: I intentionally left out some of the more technical points to illustrate this condition)

Explanation of backlash:

In mechanical engineering, backlash, sometimes called lash or play, is clearance or lost motion in a mechanism caused by gaps between the parts. One source defines it as the maximum distance through which one part of something can be moved without moving a connected part. An example, in the context of gears and gear trains, is the amount of clearance between mated gear teeth. It can be seen when the direction of movement is reversed and the slack or lost motion is taken up before the reversal of motion is complete. Another example is in a valve train with mechanical tappets, where a certain range of lash is necessary for the valves to work properly.

Depending on the application, backlash may or may not be desirable. It is unavoidable for nearly all reversing mechanical couplings, although its effects can be negated or compensated for. In many applications, the theoretical ideal would be zero backlash, but in actual practice some backlash must be allowed to prevent jamming. Reasons for the presence of backlash include allowing for lubrication, manufacturing errors, deflection under load, and thermal expansion.

Greg, It is a logical explanation and if I could have duplicated the noise/feel in the new runner i took out from the lot when I had in the car, the service manager and the tech who performed the work on my car I would have been a happy camper and would have went about my day.
What get's me is that it has been almost a year since new and I did not notice it until recently.

 

[Bay33saw]

So an update on this issue, I got a call yesterday from my service manager and he has booked my rig in for the 9th and a area specialist is coming out from Cali to inspect and perform tests on my car.
They need it for 24 hours and will provide me with a rental for the time mine is in the shop.
All in all I am happy with the way Toyota are handling this watch this space../

 

[Bay33saw]

OK just an update.......
Toyota sent out a FTS Field Tech Specialist to drive my runner around to see if he could diagnose the problem, after a 15 mile drive and a look under the truck he said and I quote
" FTS & Shop Foreman road tested vehicle 15 miles, No abnormal operation noted. One can feel normal engagement of lock up torque converter. At this time vehicle is operating as designed within manufactures specifications"

In answer to my question "how come the new car does not do that, he said just because the car is new and hasn't broken in it's transmission yet"

All in all I am happy it's supposed to be there, do I like the feel of it "No" but worse case scenario if something major happens to it, at least I have documentation that there was the noise.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Jim82]

Hopefully you are "satisfied with that answer". In my someone what limited experience dealing with Techs at dealerships and "specialist" I've noted that anything they don't understand, have never experienced or unable to effectively and correctly diagnose is considered to be "Normal".

My mate just had a problem with his less than a year old Ford. And when they were unable to fix it after having it for 3 days, they chalked it off as normal. Long behold the actual problem was something more serious, and not only that it was a problem that Ford recognized a year before and provided a fix in a TSB. After much frustration on my mates part, I went down to the dealership service department with the TSB in hand and told that this is the issue, they were dumfounded that they were unable to pick up on the TSB before and fix it within the 3 days they had the vehicle.

Just saying "Normal" might just be a brush off. Keep an eye on it and if nothing else, it never hurts to get a second opinion from another dealership if you have more than one in your area.

OK just an update.......
Toyota sent out a FTS Field Tech Specialist to drive my runner around to see if he could diagnose the problem, after a 15 mile drive and a look under the truck he said and I quote
" FTS & Shop Foreman road tested vehicle 15 miles, No abnormal operation noted. One can feel normal engagement of lock up torque converter. At this time vehicle is operating as designed within manufactures specifications"

In answer to my question "how come the new car does not do that, he said just because the car is new and hasn't broken in it's transmission yet"

All in all I am happy it's supposed to be there, do I like the feel of it "No" but worse case scenario if something major happens to it, at least I have documentation that there was the noise.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Bay33saw]

I agree, but like I said I brought it to the attention of Toyota so if my transmission takes a shit or it gets worse at least I have a paper trail......

 

[Marlin 444]

I have the clunk issue as well, but also have vibrations in 5th gear.

Made an appt for this past Saturday and took the tech for a road test. He verified the clunk issue as well as the vibrations in 5th gear.

Dropping it off tomorrow to let them work on it.

The vibrations are after 40mph in 5th gear. It feels like the engine doesn't like being in 5th gear. And it gets really annoying all they way up to 70mph. What sucks is I can feel the vibrations in any cruising speed. If I drop it down to 4th it goes away or if I put it into neutral.

The tech doesn't think it is the tires because it goes away if I downshift or put the vehicle into neutral, but we might start there.

I did some research on other Toyotas with vibrations and it seems like some are related to the U Joints. I noticed the TSB for the clunk replaces the drive shaft, including U Joints, so maybe it will fix both the clunk and vibrations.

I will provide updates later this week.

 

[Bootleg]

I'm having very similar problems to what is being described in the TSB. Odd thing is mine is a '13 SR5, not a '10-'12. I would have assumed that the issued would have been corrected but maybe not. I'm going to take mine in for the 20k oil change and that will be something I'll want them to investigate at that time.

Any thoughts?

 

[philsey]

...... Any thoughts?

Print the TSB and take it with you.

 

[japatar]

Same issue

I'm having very similar problems to what is being described in the TSB. Odd thing is mine is a '13 SR5, not a '10-'12. I would have assumed that the issued would have been corrected but maybe not. I'm going to take mine in for the 20k oil change and that will be something I'll want them to investigate at that time.

Any thoughts?

I have a 2013 SR5 as well, same clunking problem and the dealer/factory says it's perfectly normal and won't do anything to help us with it. Funny how the Lexus version got a brand new driveshaft though.

 

[Bootleg]

I have a 2013 SR5 as well, same clunking problem and the dealer/factory says it's perfectly normal and won't do anything to help us with it. Funny how the Lexus version got a brand new driveshaft though.

I'm going to press the issue mainly because that's just what I do. Sometimes you find that the people at the dealership aren't smarter than you, and sometimes you find they just don't give a shit. It's already going to be in the shop for an oil change so whats the harm.

First few times it happened when my wife was with me in the 4R she though we'd been hit from behind. It's pretty drastic.

 

[Marlin 444]

Well, dealer says the vibration issue I have is due to cupping and feathering of tires. They said plenty of tread life left, but the tires are causing the vibrations. I'm curious on what is causing the issue with my Bridgestone Revo 2's. I only have 19k miles on them and they were supposed to be rotated at 7k and 14k miles. More to come (I am having the service manager explain this issue to me).

Now the issue with the propeller shaft TSB... the service guy said that they have a call into Toyota. WTF? There is a TSB. The tech drove it with me on Saturday and it occurred 3 times. What more do they need?

 

[philsey]

... Now the issue with the propeller shaft TSB... the service guy said that they have a call into Toyota. WTF? There is a TSB. The tech drove it with me on Saturday and it occurred 3 times. What more do they need?

Did you read the TSB on page #1? It's for '10 - '12 4R's. I *think* the dealer has to support the replacement part with a qualified VIN in order to get the part without cost to them. Same with the labor.

Even though the dealer wants to help you, it is Toyota's call as to providing the parts and labor - thus their call to Toyota.

Mine was replaced, and has had no problem since. I do intend to be certain it's lubed at the OCI.

 

[eddiebx]

reading? what's that?

 

[Marlin 444]

Seriously? You think I don't read before posting. Check out my post count and join date and you can see I do more reading than you think. I try to only add my 2 cents when I feel it would add value to a post or help someone else out.

My 4runner is a 2011 and vin is JTEBU5JR7B506XXXX.

 

[eleven01]

No questions asked!

Great service up here in Fox Lake, IL. I've been having the "clunk" issue since I bought the car new in 2010. I have 54,000 on it now and I decided it was finally time to take it in. Naturally the tech couldn't recreate the issue but gave the service writer a copy of the TSB to show me. (I played dumb.) They promptly ordered the part and gave me a loaner. No questions asked. The part will be here Friday and they are going to call me when it's done.

I also casually mentioned the headlight oxidation TSB. (I came clean that I knew about it.) They said they would pull the TSB and order the parts if they can. Fingers crossed they do!

***UPDATE***
So I went to pick up my 2010 from the dealer today..... They wouldn't cover the headlights but I had a little surprise when I when to "check out." Apparently the service department went ahead and took it upon themselves to perform the recommended rear differential and 4WD transfer case fluid change. Then had they tried to charge me for the service. I spoke with the service manager who said "Well I went over the recommended service with you when you brought the truck in!" I calmly told him I never asked him to do any of that work and I never authorized any additional work be done. He was a little frustrated but ended up taking care of it.