Toyota owners seem to be a fickle group

[Jernik]

Beware, this post turned into an aimless ramble at some point, but I decided to share it anyway. Feel free to agree, disagree, add your own rant/incoheremt babble as you see fit! :cheers:

Just some observations of my time here since 2014, lurking on Tacoma forums, and recent experiences on Tundra forums...

I find it interesting that the Toyota camp is divided. On one side are the reliability loyalists that love Toyota for their proven durability, even if that means having more "dated" vehicle characteristics and longer product lifespans between major upgrades.

In the other camp are those who appreciate the reliability and high resale value, but bemoan the fact Toyota is rarely pushing the envelope and cutting edge with their product assortments.

I'm often entertained by conversations around Jeeps. For whatever reason, the 4R crowd talks about Jeeps almost as much as the Jeep crowd does. The reliability card is played religiously in every one of those discussions to justify labeling the 4R as superior. Then in the very next thread there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth about the 4R being ancient, boring, and not having all the cool gimicks, gadgetry, and doo-dads the Jeep does.

Not meaning to poke anyone in the eye here, as I love my 4R and Tundra for what they are, and I appreciate all the great advice and knowledge gained here. But you have to admit the fascination with 4R vs Jeep (and now Bronco) is... odd? Because I don't see Jeep people constantly postimg about 4R's. On one hand we love Toyota for the reliability and great resale value they provide, and on the other we seem to gripe that they're not upgraded constantly as a trendy fashion accessory with cutting edge technology or engineering that caters to our specific demands (wants).

But I have to ask, why is constant change necessary? What is so bad about a 10 year model run when the platform is solid? The automobile has been around for 120+ years, mostly in the same basic form. What can be changed yearly or bi-yearly that is truly different? We still have seats, a steering wheel, gas/brake pedals, ac/heat controls, radio, and head/tail lights. 2 or 4 doors, 4 wheels, an engine compartment and a trunk. That's pretty much it, same basic layout/proportions for most. Some manufacturers like to switch out shapes of body panels and dash layouts almost as often as I change underwear. Why? Seldom are these changes earth-shattering, they just make it look different and maybe slightly modify some trivial functionality.

I dunno, I'll stop rambling like a disgruntled old man now, I guess. Thanks for listening, if you've made it this far.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

People that are easily distracted by shiny things vs normal people.

 

[spartacus]

You talking to me?:argue:

 

[LandCruiser]

*clutches pearls*

 

[Jernik]

You talking to me?:argue:

Maybe? I dunno. :hiding: :laugh:

 

[mcat707]

I’m in the reliability durability camp. I’ve owned and driven trucks, cars and SUVs from the Big 3 and from my experiences, none of them have the proven reliability track record as the Toyota’s I’ve owned and driven. If the new Bronco was proven to be reliable through out the years, then I would consider one. I’ve owned a Wrangler in the past, not sure if I would ever buy one again.

 

[tls3601]

Well you make some very good points. The FJ40 was kind of groundbreaking back in the day much as the Bronco is now. Toyota just has not done much to be groundbreaking since the 40. Just keeps plodding along because they are so well built and they assume us Toyota loyalists will keep buying them. I think some of us will begin to look elsewhere OR Toyota can listen to its customers just like Jeep and obviously Ford have done.

 

[RunTheJoules]

So it's always been that way, huh?

 

[Heavy_GD]

Such an ironic post, complaining about people who talk about complaining about people.

I applaud your expert level of trolling.

 

[mteolus]

A Jeep is the most capable 4x4 sold today. Despite what Ford says about the new Bronco, the Jeep will still be more capable equipped exactly the same since it has a solid front axle. Toyota has nothing even close to comparable to the Jeep and I don't think 4Runner folks really want the 4Runner to be that way anyway. But I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better??? I don't think we want everything the Ford Bronco has, I don't really need removable doors or a roof, I just think there are a few things Toyota can do to make the 4Runner much better without anything that would compromise reliability. Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff? It doesn't hurt to complain, maybe they will eventually listen?

The reason why people talk about the Jeeps and Broncos around here is that they are updated so there are things to talk about. The 4Runner, not so much.

 

[EddieV4runnin]

A Jeep is the most capable 4x4 sold today. Despite what Ford says about the new Bronco, the Jeep will still be more capable equipped exactly the same since it has a solid front axle. Toyota has nothing even close to comparable to the Jeep and I don't think 4Runner folks really want the 4Runner to be that way anyway. But I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better??? I don't think we want everything the Ford Bronco has, I don't really need removable doors or a roof, I just think there are a few things Toyota can do to make the 4Runner much better without anything that would compromise reliability. Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff? It doesn't hurt to complain, maybe they will eventually listen?

The reason why people talk about the Jeeps and Broncos around here is that they are updated so there are things to talk about. The 4Runner, not so much.

True words have never been spoken. A front locker would be awesome from the factory A-trac is limited in what it can do.

 

[thennen]

I made the jump to Toyota when I bought my new 1982 Corolla SR5 Liftback. First new car I ever bought. I’ve bought nothing but used or new Toyotas since then because I like how they’re put together. So for me, a lot of quality problems experienced by owners of other makes, I haven’t experienced. Ive heard and read a lot of horror stories, but since I value quality and reliability first, I see no need to experience them by buying another make.

My current 2019 4Runner is my first new vehicle in 31 years, with my last new one being my 1988 4Runner. I put 305,000 miles on that and it still had the original alternator, starter, timing chain, etc.

So yes, I’m in the durability/quality camp. I researched and shopped for my current 4Runner and am thrilled to have it. I can’t see griping about what it doesn’t have, since I chose it and am fortunate to have it.

Toyota isn’t perfect, but long ago they figured out how to consistently make quality, reliable vehicles. As I understand it, the road was long and tedious, but today they sit at the top of the quality conversations. It’s the number one reason people buy them today. In all my years of owning Toyotas, I can’t recall them ever being cutting-edge on anything. I don’t think being cutting-edge is important in the long term.

So I really think reliability is far more valuable than all the other goodies. The investment in reliability is much greater than the investment in a 400hp engine, or whatever other thing you’re after. Their reputation is well-earned.

 

[Jetboy]

I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.

 

[sonjason]

I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.

This is why I guess?

 

[gsla72]

I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.

^ Nissan Frontier - I think we're on year 16 there.

All joking aside, I think the general frustration comes from the fact that we're just now seeing basic creature comforts slip into the T4R platform. I couldn't care less about lane keep, etc but LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack should have been sorted out in the 2014 refresh...

 

[cb1111]

^ Nissan Frontier - I think we're on year 16 there.

All joking aside, I think the general frustration comes from the fact that we're just now seeing basic creature comforts slip into the T4R platform. I couldn't care less about lane keep, etc but LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack should have been sorted out in the 2014 refresh...

Not sure about the LEDs (they are coming next year), but HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model.

 

[mteolus]

^ Nissan Frontier - I think we're on year 16 there.

Frontier is being refreshed by the end of the year for the 2021 year model. That leaves the following dinosaurs: Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sequoia, and Toyota 4Runner. See a pattern there? Trucks don't seem to be a high priority for Toyota.

 

[Jetboy]

This is why I guess?

That looks good - until you look at something like Jeep Wrangler sales. If we go back to say 2005 - Toyota sold 103k 4Runners. Jeep sold 79K wranglers. Flash forward - Jeeps selling 250k wranglers and Toyota's only moving around 140k 4Runners.

If Toyota had put much effort into the 4Runner - it's very possible it could be selling more like 250k per year not 140k.


I'm going to make a prediction - 4Runner sales fall below 100k next year.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.

This.

I used to think Toyota just wanted to focus on reliability but now...I feel like they are just lazy. The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry....

I owned 3 camrys (different generations) before this and hell even they had more updates added to each generation than the 4runner has lol. Also, each made it over 250k miles before I sold them!

 

[LandCruiser]

I've had all toyota vehicles for 15 years. My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better. That isn't historically what Toyota was doing. The 4Runner has received a complete generational update every 7 years historically. Even the FJ40 had regular and meaningful updates to the engine, the transmission, the axles, the brakes, etc. The very long production run without updates is something new. This is not classic Toyota in any way. The closest thing I know if is the 7x series. Even the 7x series has regular updates and a more modern engine and transmission lineup. The 4Runner is little more a body update on a 2003 model and a downgrade in drivetrain. It's been 17 years to this point and looking like another 3-5 more before anything gets a refresh.

And Toyota is updated it's products in other markets. The Prado and Hilux are getting new and significantly more powerful engines this year. It's basically just our market that isn't getting updated even if they keep the same platform.

If it makes me fickle - so be it. I'm fickle. But to be fair - the very long production cycle isn't typical of Toyota. I can't think of any model that has been essentially unchanged for what's looking like 15 years.

I think what we're seeing is that Toyota isn't sure whether to completely back out of the BOF SUV market in the US, just like almost everyone already has done and focus on crossovers.

The continued popularity of the Wrangler and the buzz around the male sex toy Bronco probably has made someone at corporate notice--but the FJ Cruiser wasn't as popular as they wanted.

Also helps that we are currently under an administration that doesn't give a damn about industry gas mileage standards and even Toyota has finally gotten sick of the CARB game and moved out of this hellscape of a state.