Toyota owners seem to be a fickle group
- Thread starter Jernik
- Start date
Offroad capability has nothing to do with this point though. More fundamental way automotive manufacturers produce cars and ship. Toyota allows effectively zero customization and forces you into very specific options packages and trim levels.
A Toyota Camry has the same stupid ordering restrictions and it has similar offroad capability to a Jaguar
.For the record also, the Discovery is probably as capable as a 4Runner except for the fact that the tires lack of sidewall is an Achilles' heel. From what I've seen on the new Defender, I think it's likely going to be just as capable as a 4Runner to be honest, if not more so. I think it can pretty easily take 65 series sidewall tires which is a huge plus.
83Mule
New member
Being built in Japan at Tahara ONLY, and then shipped here effects what can be done within the margins. Also the relatively low volume means they don't need or want to make it complicated to produce. I could buy anything I wanted, and I went with the 4Runner again because I don't like Tech crap, just a solid, proven vehicle. Safety junk is the LEAST important consideration I look at, while the fact it was made IN Japan is very comforting to Me. I have been Toyota loyal since 78 SR-5 Pick-up and value, simple, Stout construction are my priority.
Yah, this drives me nuts. Now it's easy with all the SW they use.
I bought it in configuration A and they decide to change it to configuration B. It's because Toyota allows children to design their SW. The kids don't have anything better to do than "improve" something and push it to my truck as a "mandatory SW update" only to find out I can't listen to whatever they decide no one uses anymore.
Geez I really miss the days of manual door locks and crank windows. It worked the same every time. If it didn't you got tools, from a tool box, and fixed it. I realize that practically no one on this forum knows what all that stuff is so I've included some pictures.
BTW Does anybody have an 8-track adapter for the 4runner?
spartacus
Senior Member
Buying an unreliable expensive suv with factory options is no fun. Buying a reliable 4runner and modding it your self is part of the fun. Turning it into a great off road rig that was built to each indivduals preference is satisfying. Get what ever rig you feel comfortable with and enjoy God's green earth. I love to see the little Subaru's with AT tires, roof top tent and bikes out there in the back country, heck I even saw one with a snorkel, wonder if it was a factory option?
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Toyota is more than capable of making a very reliable vehicle with all of the latest amenities and features. They do this in their cars and crossovers. They're just lazy when it comes to their trucks, and there's no excusing it. We're finally getting LED's on the 2021 model year on a vehicle that can cost up to 50k. How does one excuse that?? Especially knowing the benefits of LED's and modern lighting.
I still liked the 4runner enough to throw my hard earned money on a 2020.
Having a modern vehicle doesn't automatically have to = unreliable junk if it is engineered and built properly which we know Toyota is perfectly capable of.
I still liked the 4runner enough to throw my hard earned money on a 2020.
Having a modern vehicle doesn't automatically have to = unreliable junk if it is engineered and built properly which we know Toyota is perfectly capable of.
GupsT4R
New member
Im on that reliability camp, i love the finer things in life forsure but when it comes to luxury and tech in cars i have no interest in repairing it or having it always taken to a dealer for a scan.
My three Toyota (92 Previa, 03 Matrix and 08 T4R Sport) were and are all rock solid.
My three Toyota (92 Previa, 03 Matrix and 08 T4R Sport) were and are all rock solid.
thennen
New member
Yeah, I don't recall ever being able to option-up any Toyota. It's just not the production/sales model they choose to use. Never bothered me, personally.Offroad capability has nothing to do with this point though. More fundamental way automotive manufacturers produce cars and ship. Toyota allows effectively zero customization and forces you into very specific options packages and trim levels.
A Toyota Camry has the same stupid ordering restrictions and it has similar offroad capability to a Jaguar
For the record also, the Discovery is probably as capable as a 4Runner except for the fact that the tires lack of sidewall is an Achilles' heel. From what I've seen on the new Defender, I think it's likely going to be just as capable as a 4Runner to be honest, if not more so. I think it can pretty easily take 65 series sidewall tires which is a huge plus.
kenwilliams0803
New member
I'm with Mule. Tiny little Japanese hands produce superior vehicles. I can go without any of the tech as long as I can hop in it and think nothing of driving 9 hours to Bangor and then back the next day. I do all my own work on vehicles so the reliability of this 4Runner has been by far its best asset. Saves me time, saves me money, gives me peace of mind. Only thing in 140K that went bad was that damn NSS, and I still think it bound up simply from not being driven enough.
LandCruiser
New member
The point was that you could have configured a Carrera 991.2 base model with a manual transmission and have it delivered to you in 2-3 months at BELOW the MSRP of 90-92 grand with ZERO options... and your dealer and Porsche would have been happy to build and sell it to you whereas if you wanted a base FJ Cruiser when they launched in 2007 you realized that they only made a handful to advertise a much lower MSRP than nearly all the ones making it to dealerships were selling for like 10 grand more.
It's the same dishonesty as when they launched the 5th gen and sold a few 4cylinder RWD models so they could claim an MSRP of 24999!!! when my Trail was like 38k.
Toyota is also notorious for bundling all the good 4WD stuff with the most expensive trim packages. The SR5 should have all the 4WD add-on you can get on the Off Road or PRO.
Bumbo
New member
And even then they can't get it 100% correct.
Limited is the only option that comes with real leather seats and a Torsen TC, but no rear locker.
Every single trim level they make has something missing, which misses the mark just enough to still pass.
thennen
New member
Yeah, I'm not going to critique Porsche or Toyota or whomever for their sales methods. I think every company tries for the thing that will make them the most money, while attracting and retaining the most customers. It's different with them all, I imagine. I would suck at it - too many variables and too much risk. In my view, if they're using really lousy tactics, or I'm bothered by what I see as dishonesty, and those things make me not want to buy from them, then I won't. If enough people do that, maybe they change something.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't recall Toyota ever doing things much differently than they do today, sales-wise (with the possible exception of different radio choices). Their cars were always equipped mostly based on trim levels and so forth. DLX came with this and that, SR5 came with those things plus a few other things, LE was everything in a lot of cases - but maybe you couldn't get a Camry LE or XLE with a manual transmission, and on and on. I've always looked at it as simply their way of doing business. I don't ever recall being able to order/configure a Toyota from an options list. The closest I ever came to that was on my 1984 Celica GTS, but that was simply, "Here's a listing of the cars destined for our dealership" kind of thing. I just picked the one that was equipped how I wanted it. (That was my most memorable purchase, by the way, because the salesman would call to tell me when it got on the boat, then it'll be in San Francisco tomorrow, it landed, it's on the transport, etc.)
As for the "loss leader" pricing, I think they're not the only ones to have ever done that. I'm sure it goes on elsewhere. "Starting at $XX,XXX" means whatever the lowest-equipped model comes with. I think the lowest-priced Porsche today is somewhere around $60k, so they're playing on two different levels, really.
point1
New member
this pretty much sums up my thought. I think the Jeep is a fun vehicle and not really ideal as a daily driver. The 4runner can be fun though not as fun but definitely good for daily driving. Jeep has more extensibility and tons of aftermarket where the 4runner lags behind.
RichinRidgewood
New member
It’s a Japanese thing. Honda and Acura do it too. They offer packages. American vehicles are the ones where you can pick through several pages of single options.
Even the domestics seem to be moving away from this model. Try to spec out a Raptor - You'll quickly find the mid $50k starting price shift up to $70k if you want a few choice items. Everything comes bundled in a $3-$5k option group.
Gone are the days of COPO or similar where you can snag the handful of things that were of value to you a-la-carte.
I read time and again how other countries get all the cooler/better vehicles and the USA is basically left with the dregs. Given how the rest of the world views us now, thanks to YouKnowWho, I guess we’re the “shithole” country now:frusty:
GupsT4R
New member
Interestingly enough i came across these two articles on MotorBiscuit written by the same person
Three Reasons Not to Buy the 2020 Toyota 4Runner
and under that article
Buying a 2018 Jeep Wrangler Isn't a Bad Idea
LMAO
Three Reasons Not to Buy the 2020 Toyota 4Runner
and under that article
Buying a 2018 Jeep Wrangler Isn't a Bad Idea
LMAO
apc9199
Member
Agreed, I'm not sure where these talking points are even coming from. I don't know of any automakers that are still offering anything more than simple alterations within their preset packages. I considered a Grand Cherokee when they started making them with a Diesel. I wanted a comfortable workhorse SUV that I could take camping, etc, and had gobs of power. Well, the Diesel motor isn't an option without the luxury package with all the technology BS for an extra $6K, and even then it had to be oredered that way because all the dealer stock was the "Overland" package which was another 4-5K more on top of that. This sounds like a pointless argument to me. If Wranglers were built like Toyota's and had all the extra options available to choose from, they would be priced like Land Rovers...
It's not news. The 4runner does a bunch of stuff "good enough".
I looked a the:
Wrangler/Gladiator - hated the boxy design and awkward doors. Not to mention they don't drive straight ever.
Looked at the Colorado, but wasn't quite convinced when it came to writing a check.
Tacoma is always good, but expensive for what you get.
F-150 is a great driving vehicle but way too big for my area.
Cherokee Trail Hawk - Garbage.
In the end the 4runner was the best all around choice. Not as nice to drive as the F-150 or offroad capable as the "real" jeeps nor as featured as the Colorado nor useful as the Tacoma. But it's a known quantity. So I'm one of they guys that buys "good enough" at a lot of things.
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