Toyota owners seem to be a fickle group

[SpeedyKevin]

I think what we're seeing is that Toyota isn't sure whether to completely back out of the BOF SUV market in the US, just like almost everyone already has done and focus on crossovers.

The continued popularity of the Wrangler and the buzz around the male sex toy Bronco probably has made someone at corporate notice--but the FJ Cruiser wasn't as popular as they wanted.

Also helps that we are currently under an administration that doesn't give a damn about industry gas mileage standards and even Toyota has finally gotten sick of the CARB game and moved out of this hellscape of a state.

Next generation Tacomas/4runners are supposed to be sharing the same platform right? Hopefully the sales of the next-gen will be decent enough to persuade Toyota to stay in the American BOF market.

 

[mteolus]

The FJ Cruiser was just a shortened version of the 4Runner. Not much thought put into its design. Horrible blind spots and back doors that won't open if the front ones aren't opened first. Not sure they are more prone to flipping than 4runners, but that Black Bear Pass video of one flipping was disturbing.

 

[LandCruiser]

Next generation Tacomas/4runners are supposed to be sharing the same platform right? Hopefully the sales of the next-gen will be decent enough to persuade Toyota to stay in the American BOF market.

I used to travel to SE Asia and Japan a lot.

The Hilux based Fortuner is TRASH compared to the updated Prado.

 

[jp.vegas]

The FJ Cruiser was just a shortened version of the 4Runner. Not much thought put into its design. Horrible blind spots and back doors that won't open if the front ones aren't opened first. Not sure they are more prone to flipping than 4runners, but that Black Bear Pass video of one flipping was disturbing.

Exactly. There was nothing innovative about it, no special offroad features that the 4Runner didn't have etc. It was however a lot smaller, a lot more cramped, rode like ass due to the short wheelbase etc. At the end of the day, no one bought many of them anyway despite their professed desire for a "hard core" offroader from Toyota and it was left to die when the 150 based 4Runner was refreshed.

I never understood the love for that thing but to each their own.

 

[Jetboy]

Supposedly all BOF will be a single platform. So everything from Tunda, LC300, Tacoma, 4R etc. will all share a modular platform. That *should* mean you can mix and match parts like drive trains across any or all of them. How that will work to share over such a wide range of vehicles will be interesting to see. Not sure when we'll actually see on though. I thought we'd see the next Tundra and LC300 by now.

 

[apc9199]

The way I see it is, people who are in it for the glam will jump on the Bronco/Jeep wagon and only time will tell how it works out for them in terms of it being a reliable vehicle (we already know the Jeep isn't, with extremely poor reliability and safety ratings). People who want a known-reliable platform that is tried and true over literally decades will stick with Toyota despite lacking some of the more modern features of other vehicles.

 

[spartacus]

Toyota's motto, " Lets go places" means exactly that. Toyota mechanical horse will get you there and back, the rest of the gizmos etc will do you no good if you are stranded. Toyota doesn't care, it's an extremely profitable company. It will change when it starts loosing market share to other manufacturers.
Almost all of the world's car manufacturers want the Toyota's secret of building reliable vehicles that out sell other similar models with better gizmos and performance.
The Toyota Group is currently on top of the market, registering the best year to date performance in the Top 10 and after managing to somewhat “contain” the losses compared to the followers in the Covid-19 crisis. Indeed, Toyota Group in May 2020 was reaching 12.8% market share.
4runner sales are increasing annually in fact the 5th Gen is by far the best selling model.

 

[ryguytheman]

Exactly. There was nothing innovative about it, no special offroad features that the 4Runner didn't have etc. It was however a lot smaller, a lot more cramped, rode like ass due to the short wheelbase etc. At the end of the day, no one bought many of them anyway despite their professed desire for a "hard core" offroader from Toyota and it was left to die when the 150 based 4Runner was refreshed.

I never understood the love for that thing but to each their own.

Plus, it looks like a Wrangler + VW Bug cross. Not the sexiest look.

It's grown on me over the years, but still not a good looking vehicle.

 

[thennen]

Some responses:

I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better???

Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff?

A front locker would be awesome from the factory

My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better

LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack

HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model

The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry





My input? Look at wishes/complaints from competitive vehicle forums.

 

[LandCruiser]

Some responses:

I think it would be nice to be able to put 33" or 34" tires without any fender cutting or BMCs, have decent power, have more than 5 gears, have good braking, and for god sakes decent lighting inside and out. Why do we need to buy a Sprint Booster, can't they program the accelerator a little better???

Putting the GX engine and transmission in the 4Runner would be a good start. How about LED lighting? How about an optional front locking diff?

A front locker would be awesome from the factory

My issue isn't so much the dated product, but the lack of any effort in any way to make it better

LED headlights and a relatively up to date entertainment stack

HIDs would have appropriate in 2014 - and would have been fine until the next model

The cruise control stick is the same one from my 95 camry





My input? Look at wishes/complaints from competitive vehicle forums.

Pretty much this. There's no reason not to have the GX engine, 6AT, and front locker. I'm guessing it'd be a direct bolt in with little to no engineering effort on their part.

I'm pretty sure that they could have taken a little effort and re-engineered the body mount after everyone started chopping them with the FJ Cruiser--it was clear that people wanted to put bigger tires on this thing.

In reality they did yet another platform engineering exercise with the 4th gen, the FJ Cruiser, and the 2ng gen Prado/GX and called it a day.

 

[Jetboy]

Exactly. There was nothing innovative about it, no special offroad features that the 4Runner didn't have etc. It was however a lot smaller, a lot more cramped, rode like ass due to the short wheelbase etc. At the end of the day, no one bought many of them anyway despite their professed desire for a "hard core" offroader from Toyota and it was left to die when the 150 based 4Runner was refreshed.

I never understood the love for that thing but to each their own.

Jonathan Ward of ICON was hired by Toyota to do prototypes for the FJ Cruiser. And his comments about what Ford should do were pretty telling. They were basically
skip the prepacked shit (let people configure them any way they want including off road stuff on base models)
Have some luxury options - you can both go after the G wagon market and the base model market.
You need a 2 door model.
Don't try too hard to make it a clone of the old one.
V8 would be better than a turbo 6.
It has to have a MT
Don't focus group it - focus groups kill most great concepts.

Seems like Ford did quite a few, but not all of them.

 

[thennen]

Toyota's motto, " Lets go places" means exactly that. Toyota mechanical horse will get you there and back, the rest of the gizmos etc will do you no good if you are stranded. Toyota doesn't care, it's an extremely profitable company. It will change when it starts loosing market share to other manufacturers.
Almost all of the world's car manufacturers want the Toyota's secret of building reliable vehicles that out sell other similar models with better gizmos and performance.
The Toyota Group is currently on top of the market, registering the best year to date performance in the Top 10 and after managing to somewhat “contain” the losses compared to the followers in the Covid-19 crisis. Indeed, Toyota Group in May 2020 was reaching 12.8% market share.
4runner sales are increasing annually in fact the 5th Gen is by far the best selling model.

I recall many years ago hearing about Toyota leaning very heavily on their suppliers/vendors. Toyota was emerging from what was essentially a life-or-death struggle for survival, and their suppliers had to maintain an insane degree of reliability for their parts, or be cut out as suppliers. IIRC, it was VERY cutthroat. You had to be the shizzle if you were to supply Toyota with voltage regulators or whatever.

Today, the market is ridiculously more competitive. Everyone makes a decent SUV, for example. In my opinion, Toyota has played a major part since the 70s/80s in upping the quality game of the entire industry. In return, they have to be even better, but also, need to keep in mind that their vendors supply other manufacturers. So it's more difficult, I imagine. Sitting on a tried-and-true (old?) design becomes increasingly attractive, I would think, because each year you're successful offsets your R&D of previous years. Financially speaking, you can reap more rewards the longer your product remains unchanged (or little-changed). It's common sense.

 

[LandCruiser]

Jonathan Ward of ICON was hired by Toyota to do prototypes for the FJ Cruiser. And his comments about what Ford should do were pretty telling. They were basically
skip the prepacked shit (let people configure them any way they want including off road stuff on base models)
Have some luxury options - you can both go after the G wagon market and the base model market.
You need a 2 door model.
Don't try too hard to make it a clone of the old one.
V8 would be better than a turbo 6.
It has to have a MT
Don't focus group it - focus groups kill most great concepts.

Seems like Ford did quite a few, but not all of them.

It's a big deal that you can get all the off road stuff on a base model, with Toyota you always have to get a much higher trim to get all the 4x4 stuff.

Whether that's something that will happen in practice is another story, as dealers love to get vehicles optioned in 'popular' packages and will make it time and cost prohibitive for you to order your own--Porsche is probably the only car company that will let you option a vehicle any damn way you want.

 

[thennen]

It's a big deal that you can get all the off road stuff on a base model, with Toyota you always have to get a much higher trim to get all the 4x4 stuff.

Whether that's something that will happen in practice is another story, as dealers love to get vehicles optioned in 'popular' packages and will make it time and cost prohibitive for you to order your own--Porsche is probably the only car company that will let you option a vehicle any damn way you want.

Porsche = for a sh!t ton of money.

 

[AZ Craig]

The FJ Cruiser was just a shortened version of the 4Runner. Not much thought put into its design. Horrible blind spots and back doors that won't open if the front ones aren't opened first. Not sure they are more prone to flipping than 4runners, but that Black Bear Pass video of one flipping was disturbing.

Hrm, I had never seen that video and just searched for it. That had to be terrible line selection.

I think there was pictures of a TRD Pro 4Runner a few years flipped in that same area. Folks need to know you cannot go diagonally down a steep ledge. Ugh.

 

[750ml]

Say what you will, but the 4Runner is still a great bang for the buck. If Toyota constantly updates the design the consumer pays for it.
As it is now you can spend a lot more on a Wrangler and still have less vehicle - even if it is more capable off road. But if that's what you want then buy a Wrangler.
Personally I think we need to be very careful what we ask for, or the 4Runner might become just another bling machine.
And one more thing - resale. It's strong because a three year old 4runner still looks like a new one. That and reliability.
The V6 isn't a race horse, but at 65 hp per liter it'll last damn near forever. The Wrangler and the Bronco may very well become time bombs engine wise. If and when Bronco and Wrangler engines go south there's going to be some upset people! But the writing is on the wall. Ford and Jeep are trying to do too much with too little - in my opinion.

 

[AZ Craig]

Toyota's motto, " Lets go places" means exactly that. Toyota mechanical horse will get you there and back, the rest of the gizmos etc will do you no good if you are stranded. Toyota doesn't care, it's an extremely profitable company. It will change when it starts loosing market share to other manufacturers.
Almost all of the world's car manufacturers want the Toyota's secret of building reliable vehicles that out sell other similar models with better gizmos and performance.
The Toyota Group is currently on top of the market, registering the best year to date performance in the Top 10 and after managing to somewhat “contain” the losses compared to the followers in the Covid-19 crisis. Indeed, Toyota Group in May 2020 was reaching 12.8% market share.
4runner sales are increasing annually in fact the 5th Gen is by far the best selling model.

Not completely true. 2019 sales were down compared to 2018...

 

[AZ Craig]

Whether that's something that will happen in practice is another story, as dealers love to get vehicles optioned in 'popular' packages and will make it time and cost prohibitive for you to order your own--Porsche is probably the only car company that will let you option a vehicle any damn way you want.

Having just gone through a custom order with a Rover, JLR is pretty damn close to Porsche in that regard.

Incredible amount of trim levels combined with the ability to jump into option packages or stand alone features on lower trims to add a lot of content you maybe wouldn't get otherwise.

Slightly different than Toyota where you can't even custom order a vehicle if you wanted.

 

[Bumbo]

Porsche is probably the only car company that will let you option a vehicle any damn way you want.

Yep, and you pay dearly for it.

I have a feeling if Toyota could get away with charging you $390 for a leather fuse box cover like they do in a 911, they would do it too. Heck, for another $2000 you can get your air vents wrapped in leather.

The add options alone on my business partners Porsche costs more than my Limited.

 

[thennen]

Having just gone through a custom order with a Rover, JLR is pretty damn close to Porsche in that regard.

Incredible amount of trim levels combined with the ability to jump into option packages or stand alone features on lower trims to add a lot of content you maybe wouldn't get otherwise.

Slightly different than Toyota where you can't even custom order a vehicle if you wanted.

But isn’t a Porsche or JLR significantly more expensive, with very little off-road capability? Apples and oranges here?