Toyota's credibility being questioned

[Thai]

First of all, I didn't dismiss the problem, I simply stated the facts.

Therefore, when braking over a bumpy road, the ABS function is not properly modulating the braking system, which is basically the cause of the problem.

The fact of the matter is that it's an ABS issue and normal braking performance is unaffected UNLESS the ABS is activated.

Ok...but it is still a BRAKE PERFORMANCE ISSUE, which is what i stated initially. That is FACT. You saying that the brakes are fine.........unless ABS is "activated" or if you're going over bumpy road.......is very contradictory, don't you think? We're not talking about what the media has said...lets focus on the issue at hand...and that is the Prius braking system is faulty.

In comparison, the Ford Fusion brake problem has NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL BRAKING PERFORMANCE (over ANY bumps or road conditions), but with the feel of the brakes.

That was/is my point in correcting what the other member wrote.

 

[mullac]

Charlier180 said
I do find it very entertaining to watch the two opposing sides in this debate while trying to keep an open mind about this whole situation. The angry mob (Toyota is GUILTY) versus the Toyota fanboi (Toyota's S**T doesn't stink) has been entertaining. Both sides do have their points and both sides also have blind spots big enough for me to drive my 4Runner through.

Time will tell how this situation play out.

I,m with you Charlie , If anybody suffers the dillusion that the "Corporate World" has your best interest/safety in mind - well poor you ! They'll sell your hide for a nickel when they get in a bind !!! Seen it too much .

 

[Thai]

Wow, you should work for the media. Who the hell said there wasn't a problem? Again, the point here is that the media isn't giving everyone ALL the facts, instead choosing to give the public just enough information to cause wide-spread speculation.

I am far from working with the media...but then again, i am far from being blinded to facts. For you, it is not a problem because Prius brake problems only become a problem on bumpy, slippery roads or whenever ABS is activated...geez, we NEVER see those kinds of roads, right?! Re-read what you just wrote...pretty funny!

 

[Thai]

If anybody suffers the dillusion that the "Corporate World" has your best interest/safety in mind - well poor you ! They'll sell your hide for a nickel when they get in a bind !!! Seen it too much .

x2. Toyota, like the rest of them, will screw you every chance they get. In the old days, Mr. Toyoda would have stepped down from his high position or thrown himself onto a sword!

 

[Jed]

I am far from working with the media...but then again, i am far from being blinded to facts. For you, it is not a problem because Prius brake problems only become a problem on bumpy, slippery roads or whenever ABS is activated...geez, we NEVER see those kinds of roads, right?! Re-read what you just wrote...pretty funny!

I don't know why you're so defensive about this issue, Thai. I also don't know how to get through to you with MY thoughts on the issue. I'm not taking sides, I'm just stating facts. So I'll try again to explain my point, but you have to promise to not spin it, okay? Here goes:

The MEDIA is acting irresponsibly by NOT telling the whole story when it comes to the 2010 Prius braking issue. They are LEADING the public to believe that the braking system can completely fail. If the MEDIA would have told the FULL story from the beginning, then it wouldn't be such a big news story, even when it comes right after the whole unintended accelration fiasco. That is all I've been saying...

Now for my personal opinion on the matter:

If I owned a 2010 Prius, I would not be afraid to drive it. Why? Simple--the braking system will perform exactly as it should, with the exception of a situation where I activate the ABS. And of course ABS is great in certain situations, but the fact remains that activating ABS is a very rare occurrence for the majority of drivers. I think I might have activated the ABS on my 4Runner maybe 2 times in the 5 years I've owned it. Anyway, knowing that the Prius braking system will be fine under normal circumstances, I wouldn't hesitate to drive it.

 

[morphius909]

Mass Hysteria is beginning to take over....

 

[IntoTheVoid]

My dad was a Ford man and my first vehicle was a Ford car, my second vehicle was a Ford pickup. Then I bought a Toyota pickup because it fit my way of life in southern Oregon.

I was sold on a Toyota because in 1980 a good buddy had bought a 1980 Toyota 4x4 pickup and put directional tires on it. Holy crap! that truck could go anywhere.

I remember we took up an old muddy logging skid trail that had deep ruts and was fully overgrown. The trail petered out and was blocked by an old landslide. He could not back down because of ruts and over growth and if we got stuck, it was to far to walk out.

He put the truck in 1st gear low-range and did a three point turn in a radius that seemed to be in are own tracks. I'll never forget that day, that truck was like a mountain goat. After that is when I bought my 1983 Toyota pickup.

I am sure most people that have owned Toyota's have similar stories and will be loyal customers till the end. I know I will be.
I read a headline today that said "It could be a long slog for Toyota to win back trust." I still trust my 1990 Toyota pickup (350k) and my 1998 4Runner. I also have to say I am not in the market to buy a new Toyota but I am still looking at third generation 4runners for an up-grade in options. Maybe. lol

The media always make a huge deal out of car company recalls. Yes I remember the Pintos and the Ford pickup catching fire recalls.
Does anyone remember the NBC Dateline story about third generation GM pickup truck side saddle fuel tanks?
They did a story about how the tanks would rupture if the truck was T-boned and the tanks/truck would explode.
The Dateline story was staged:
Chevrolet C/K - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to the now debunked 1993 report which aired on Dateline, this placement made the trucks capable of exploding when involved in a side impact accident[4]. The faked video was staged by expert witness against GM. Bruce Enz of The Institute for Safety Analysis used incendiary devices and a poorly fitting gas cap to create the impression of a dangerous vehicle[5]. Fatality figures vary wildly. A study by Failure Analysis Associates found 155 fatalities in these GM trucks between 1973 and 1989 involving both side impact and fire[6]. The Center for Auto Safety, Ralph Nader's lobbying group, claims "over 1,800 fatalities" between 1973 & 2000 involving both side impact and fire.[7] Other commentators noted that regardless of the any increased risk of fire, the GM trucks had statistically indistinguishable safety records in side-impact crashes from their Ford and Dodge equivalents, and were safer in all crashes than passenger cars in general.
My theory is if you hit anything hard enough it's gonna explode! :bigok:

So does anyone how may people have been killed in this Toyota stuck accelerator recall? I checked the web and cannot find a positive number.

Why do think the Taliban drive a Toyota?
Because if I was going to take over the world I to would want a reliable ride. :ak472:

 

[Thai]

I don't know why you're so defensive about this issue, Thai.

Because you commented on MY post as being not accurate...when in fact, it is quite accurate.

 

[Thai]

Mass Hysteria is beginning to take over....

Some say it is Mass Denial by Fanboys taking over....

 

[Jed]

Because you commented on MY post as being not accurate...when in fact, it is quite accurate.

Yeah, your statement is about as accurate as what we've been hearing in the media. Just like them, you're only telling PART of the story. That's been my point all along.

So maybe you (and the media) shouldn't make blanket statements, saying that the Prius braking system has a performance issue. Maybe, just maybe we should tell it like it is and let everyone know that the "performance issue" only occurs if the ABS system is actuated. So it is fair to say that the issue is more with the ABS than the basic braking system. In other words, the brakes are NOT failing on the 2010 Prius as the media has led us to believe.

To put this in perspective, imagine if the media started reporting that the Toyota 4Runner has a problem with exploding gas tanks. But then they left out the important details that the exploding gas tanks ONLY happen during a driver's side collision with another vehicle. Big difference there, huh? Same goes for the Prius reporting in the media lately. Sure, there's a problem, but it is isolated to certain circumstances and in no way has there been incidences where the braking system has failed.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

In the old days, Mr. Toyoda would have stepped down from his high position or thrown himself onto a sword!

That would've been Hari Kari;the Europeans threw themselves on their swords.

 

[Thai]

So maybe you (and the media) shouldn't make blanket statements, saying that the Prius braking system has a performance issue. Maybe, just maybe we should tell it like it is and let everyone know that the "performance issue" only occurs if the ABS system is actuated. So it is fair to say that the issue is more with the ABS than the basic braking system. In other words, the brakes are NOT failing on the 2010 Prius as the media has led us to believe.

To put this in perspective, imagine if the media started reporting that the Toyota 4Runner has a problem with exploding gas tanks. But then they left out the important details that the exploding gas tanks ONLY happen during a driver's side collision with another vehicle. Big difference there, huh? Same goes for the Prius reporting in the media lately. Sure, there's a problem, but it is isolated to certain circumstances and in no way has there been incidences where the braking system has failed.

This is getting pretty stupid here. Mind boggling! Answer me these questions:

1. Is ABS part of the Prius "braking system"?? No, don't give me any parameters or stupid winding answer...a simple yes or no will do.
2. Isn't a failure of the ABS system to work properly (in certain conditions) also means that the Prius has brake performance issues??
3. Are you saying that the ABS system is NOT part of the brake performance of a car??
4. So, slamming on the brakes on the highway and activating ABS is not part of the braking system of a car?
5. Did I EVER say that the actual brakes on the Prius are failing?? Which part of this whole discussion did you fail to understand??

And if you read more, then you will see that THERE HAVE been accidents related to "brake system issues" on the Prius. Fortunately, no one was killed...but are you waiting for someone to get killed to do something about it? THOSE ACCIDENTS sir indicate a brake performance issue. In fact, I will take brake fade in my daily driver (which the Prius is intended to be) over failure of ABS system anyday of the week, even if the ABS failure occurs only when it turns on or over uneven surfaces! (Texas roads are not known to be flat.)

I have no idea what the hell you're arguing with me...your logic is just mind boggling! :nono:

BTW, it would be pretty hard for a 4runner to explode on a side collision. This is why the gas tank is located in between the frame rails...and i believe made out of multi-layer plastic. If you're going to give an "analogy," then please put some more thought into it! :toilet:

 

[Jed]

Hahahaha....Thai, you're a silly guy. If you think that ANY car can't have an exploding gas tank during a serious collision, then you must be delusional. Of course the 4Runner's gas tank is well-protected, just as in any modern vehicle. Gone are the days of the rear-mounted gas tanks like the ones found in the old Ford Pinto that were susceptible to explosions in even a relatively minor rear end collision. But if you can't see the point I was making, then don't blame me...

As for your question, well, sorry but it's just not that black and white. Of course ABS is part of the braking system. But answer me this--how often does ABS come into play while braking? For most people in most cars, the answer is hardly ever. So you can moan all you want about the defect in the Prius brake system, but the fact of the matter is that the brakes on the 2010 Prius will function perfectly fine 99.999% of the time. The ONLY time an issue MAY arise is when the driver experiences a situation where the ABS is activated, and even then, only a momentarily loss of braking force will be realized. So please stop being such a drama queen and admit that the problem is blown way out of proportion by yourself and the media in general. You really are a media darling, Thai.

 

[Thai]

Hahahaha....Thai, you're a silly guy. If you think that ANY car can't have an exploding gas tank during a serious collision, then you must be delusional. Of course the 4Runner's gas tank is well-protected, just as in any modern vehicle. Gone are the days of the rear-mounted gas tanks like the ones found in the old Ford Pinto that were susceptible to explosions in even a relatively minor rear end collision. But if you can't see the point I was making, then don't blame me...

As for your question, well, sorry but it's just not that black and white. Of course ABS is part of the braking system. But answer me this--how often does ABS come into play while braking? For most people in most cars, the answer is hardly ever. So you can moan all you want about the defect in the Prius brake system, but the fact of the matter is that the brakes on the 2010 Prius will function perfectly fine 99.999% of the time. The ONLY time an issue MAY arise is when the driver experiences a situation where the ABS is activated, and even then, only a momentarily loss of braking force will be realized. So please stop being such a drama queen and admit that the problem is blown way out of proportion by yourself and the media in general. You really are a media darling, Thai.

Remind me...when do ABS get activated? Oh yeah, when the weather is crappy or when you're in an "oh shit" situation...either way, i would not want my ABS to malfunction for any split second. No, it is indeed a black and white problem. I never knew that ABS is only used 0.0001% of the time...care to point to some facts to back up this claim????? :snacker: For someone who loves to put up stats, i am sure that you can back it up.

Ok, show me a picture of a modern 4runner exploding from a side collision. Hell, there is more chance of me activating my ABS than from that happening in a 4runner! :flipoff:

BTW, when did i ever say that the actual brakes on the Prius were faulty??
:shrug:

 

[Jed]

Okay, I give up Thai. You are right and I must be wrong. I may be new here, but I've read enough posts on this forum to know that you have a habit of banning anyone who doesn't agree with you, so I'll let you win.

I'm done with this debate. Anyone who reads the thread can see that I've made the same point over and over again, yet you continue to try and get me to argue with you over the same thing.

 

[Thai]

Okay, I give up Thai. You are right and I must be wrong. I may be new here, but I've read enough posts on this forum to know that you have a habit of banning anyone who doesn't agree with you, so I'll let you win.

I'm done with this debate. Anyone who reads the thread can see that I've made the same point over and over again, yet you continue to try and get me to argue with you over the same thing.

Ahhh...so, when i ask for some facts, you back off and bring up irrelevant stuff. BTW, i stepped down as Admin a while back...you can BS all you want now.

 

[Jed]

Ahhh...so, when i ask for some facts, you back off and bring up irrelevant stuff. BTW, i stepped down as Admin a while back...you can BS all you want now.

No, I'm not backing off. I'm just not continuing the debate because I know you better than you think. As as far as stepping down, well, we both know you are full of it, Thai.

What ever happened when you said you were going to spend more time with your family because you were spending too much time posting on the forum? One of the members here started to turn others against you, so you posted some BS about how your family came first and that you needed to spend more time with them? Remember that? You disappeared for a while and then you came back because you couldn't help yourself. People once again started getting banned left and right because of you and your big ego. You can deny it all you want, but you know it's true.

And I also know that you like to delete posts like this one because you feel threatened by the fact that other members may read them and may agree. So I will not be surprised if you delete this post, Thai. The last thing you want is for the tide to turn against you again like it did before. That's pathetic, but it is your reality.

So in closing, I'll have to again tell you that you will not continue to push me into a continuation of this debate on the Prius situation. I am done, do you not understand that?

 

[sheik]

To put this in perspective, imagine if the media started reporting that the Toyota 4Runner has a problem with exploding gas tanks. But then they left out the important details that the exploding gas tanks ONLY happen during a driver's side collision with another vehicle..

Ok, show me a picture of a modern 4runner exploding from a side collision. Hell, there is more chance of me activating my ABS than from that happening in a 4runner! :flipoff:

You're asking for facts for a hypothetical situation Jed made up, Thai.

I, too, have seen plenty of your posts and they are all pretty much a carbon copy of what has happened in this thread. Everyone is wrong but you and you don't even make an attempt to look at all the information.



sen·sa·tion·al·ize (sěn-sā'shə-nə-līz')
To cast and present in a manner intended to arouse strong interest, especially through inclusion of exaggerated or lurid details.




Jed is just trying to point out that the ABS issue only occurs under certain circumstances when the media and you are making it out to be much more than that. That's all.

In my opinion it's time to apply some thread locker and wrap this one up. You don't like to let things go Thai and any further discussion in this thread will be dominated by your posts.

 

[Jed]

Well, I'm certainly glad to see someone else understands my point and realizes that's all I was saying here!

 

[Thai]

What ever happened when you said you were going to spend more time with your family because you were spending too much time posting on the forum? One of the members here started to turn others against you, so you posted some BS about how your family came first and that you needed to spend more time with them? Remember that? You disappeared for a while and then you came back because you couldn't help yourself. People once again started getting banned left and right because of you and your big ego. You can deny it all you want, but you know it's true.

I am only involved in interesting threads...btw, i was pulled back into the forum due to spam problems with the old software. Once we got the new software and things settled, i stepped down.

I never said that this Prius problem was a daily problem...but it is a significant problem nonetheless, whether it happens once in a blue moon or more often than that. My brother has an '10 (level 4)...and he too can reproduce this problem quite easily over a small road bump and applying the brakes at the same time. It doesn't need to take a 0.00001% chance for this to happen. THAT is my point...and taken as a whole, it is a brake system problem.

Sheik...apparently, you did not understand my point about the 4runner exploding and ABS analogy.