Toytec Boss - Vibration Diagnosis - Pic Heavy

does the vibration go away if you are in 4wd? do you have an adjustable panhard bar to re center the rear axel?

Interesting you mentioned the adjustable panhard bar. After my toytec boss lift (600# coils up front & 890s out back w/ stock panhard), I never experienced any vibrations at any speed regardless if I was in 2wd or AWD. As of about Jan 2015, I never put my 4runner in AWD again & it sat in the body shop until May 2015.

May 2015, I changed my rear springs to toytec superflex, installed an SS adjustable panhard, replaced LBJ/ITR/OTR/both cv axle's all with OEM parts. At this point I still have not experienced vibrations in any speeds & I have also not used the AWD

July 2015, it was raining heavily and decided to put my 4runner in AWD. Did not experience vibrations driving under 45mph but soon as I hit highway speeds (>50mph) I experienced the "driving on the emergency lane" type vibrations. Soon as i switched back to 2wd, the vibration went away.

Aside from reviewing some threads, I haven't spent too much time problem solving this one just yet b/c there are a few other maintenance projects I am trying to complete. At this point I have just been listing the changes I have made since I first experienced the vibrations at >50mph while in AWD so I can start narrowing down the possible cause. So far the only things that are different include: an extra .5 inch rear lift from the superflex coils, newly replaced OEM CV axles, LBJ, inner/outer tie rods, & a properly adjusted adjustable panhard bar. Although I am doubtful the adjustable panhard may have anything to do with it, I guess it's worth reviewing in the event I rule out everything else.

My initial thoughts were the extra .5 inch rear lift or an issue with the cv axle's or possible errors I may have made when installing the axle may be causing the vibration. Side note, my front lift height & CV axle angles have not changed pre/post AWD vibration.

Edit: my 4runner was in the body shop bc i had it repainted black...not collision related in case anyone was thinking vibration was due to collision.
 
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Interesting you mentioned the adjustable panhard bar. After my toytec boss lift (600# coils up front & 890s out back w/ stock panhard), I never experienced any vibrations at any speed regardless if I was in 2wd or AWD. As of about Jan 2015, I never put my 4runner in AWD again & it sat in the body shop until May 2015.

May 2015, I changed my rear springs to toytec superflex, installed an SS adjustable panhard, replaced LBJ/ITR/OTR/both cv axle's all with OEM parts. At this point I still have not experienced vibrations in any speeds & I have also not used the AWD

July 2015, it was raining heavily and decided to put my 4runner in AWD. Did not experience vibrations driving under 45mph but soon as I hit highway speeds (>50mph) I experienced the "driving on the emergency lane" type vibrations. Soon as i switched back to 2wd, the vibration went away.

Aside from reviewing some threads, I haven't spent too much time problem solving this one just yet b/c there are a few other maintenance projects I am trying to complete. At this point I have just been listing the changes I have made since I first experienced the vibrations at >50mph while in AWD so I can start narrowing down the possible cause. So far the only things that are different include: an extra .5 inch rear lift from the superflex coils, newly replaced OEM CV axles, LBJ, inner/outer tie rods, & a properly adjusted adjustable panhard bar. Although I am doubtful the adjustable panhard may have anything to do with it, I guess it's worth reviewing in the event I rule out everything else.

My initial thoughts were the extra .5 inch rear lift or an issue with the cv axle's or possible errors I may have made when installing the axle may be causing the vibration. Side note, my front lift height & CV axle angles have not changed pre/post AWD vibration.

Edit: my 4runner was in the body shop bc i had it repainted black...not collision related.


2 thoughts on this, if you have vibrations and it goes away in in 4wd it could indicate worn wheel bearings or any number of front suspension bushings/balljoints.

If you experience vibration in 4wd but not 2wd it could indicate an issue with the cv axles, being either out of balance or binding because of the angle.
 
2 thoughts on this, if you have vibrations and it goes away in in 4wd it could indicate worn wheel bearings or any number of front suspension bushings/balljoints.

If you experience vibration in 4wd but not 2wd it could indicate an issue with the cv axles, being either out of balance or binding because of the angle.

Are there other factors that could cause the cv axle to be out of balance aside from the angle?...or is the angle the usual cause for an out of balance cv axle?
 
"It could be your drive shaft/double cardan joint/universal joints..."[/COLOR]

:wtf: - no idea about any of that.

"So when it "seems" to go away when in nuetral, does it go away, or does it not? Does it only shake when under load, or also when just coasting but in gear?"

It goes away. I tried it out again this morning.

Well, if the vibration goes away when there's no load then you should be looking at your universal joints, double cardan (large double universal between the driveshaft and the transfer case, or the pinion bearing, ( caused by excessive pinion angle - look at how your rear differential points more parallel to the ground but the driveshaft "connects" at an extreme angle) Post up some side pics of your lift so we can see what kind of lift you have working. Also, what brand of LBJ did you use? It's's fairly well proven that only OEM LBJs hold up on our truck, and since it's such a crucial part (and not real that much more money than the better quality NAPA LBJs) it's really a no brainer purchase. .

I do notice the driveshaft/rear diff angle now that you mention it. Is that normal or due to the lift? Also took a side pic and measurements.
 

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does the vibration go away if you are in 4wd? do you have an adjustable panhard bar to re center the rear axel?

I have not tried to see if it goes away in 4x4 yet, and no I don't have the panhard bar... So many things here. Staying to wonder if I made the right decision!
 
I'm not going to let this thing die. I drove to work this morning in 4wd. Hit speeds of ~60 and the vibration did not go away, possibly even a touch worse. The vibration definitely goes away in neutral and when I let off the accelerator.

Going to thrown in old wheels and tires this weekend to verify is not a balancing issue. Thinking something to do with drivetrain. Starting with most obvious.U-joints maybe? CV axle angle? Anything I can do if that's the case? Lower front coilovers my only option?
 
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I'm not going to let this thing die. I drove to work this morning in 4wd. Hit speeds of ~60 and the vibration did not go away, possibly even a touch worse. The vibration definitely goes away in neutral and when I let off the accelerator.


From the pics, your cv angle did look kinda steep so you may want to try that since it would be an easy first place to start b/c of the adjustable coilers.
 
From the pics, your cv angle did look kinda steep so you may want to try that since it would be an easy first place to start b/c of the adjustable coilers.

So if you go to adjusting the coilovers that won't affect the alignment correct?
 
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From the pics, your cv angle did look kinda steep so you may want to try that since it would be an easy first place to start b/c of the adjustable coilers.

[MENTION=116877]fourfive[/MENTION] have you measured from your center hub to fender up front? You essentially have the same set-up as me. I'm curious to see what you measure as compared to my 23 1/2. If it is comparable i'm not sure what else would be making the cv angles greater on mine. I have the front diff drop installed.
 
I do notice the driveshaft/rear diff angle now that you mention it. Is that normal or due to the lift? Also took a side pic and measurements.

Pinion angle looks fine. It is very strange that it only does it under load. That is definitely a clue.

Shame you're having these problems because your rig looks really nice. Love those KO2s!
 
So if you go to adjusting the coilovers that won't affect the alignment correct?

I'm definitely not an alignment expert & I'm speaking from limited personal experience but it probably depends on how much you adjust the coilovers. If you lower it about 1/4 inch measuring by the threads it will equal to about 1/2 inch of ride height (this was stated on Toytec's website which I've found to be pretty accurate when adjusting my coilovers). If the suspension has already been installed & alignment has already been done, the 1/2 change in ride height typically won't change the alignment specs significantly enough to get another alignment. However, I have found that 1/4" to 1/2" change in ride height (with my coilovers) can noticeably change the quality (smoothness or bumpiness/stiffness) of the ride.
 
Pinion angle looks fine. It is very strange that it only does it under load. That is definitely a clue.

Shame you're having these problems because your rig looks really nice. Love those KO2s!

Thank you! I love the 4runner, just ready to get this figured out. Not giving up yet!
 
I throw this in the mix. I had the same issue at 60-70MPH on my non-lifted runner. Took it to discount tire twice and they balanced them. Got back on the interstate and it was worse, hmmm. Went back a week later to discount tire and told them the story. One of their balancers was way out of calibration. Re-balanced and now the ride is as smooth as a sports car.
 
[MENTION=116877]fourfive[/MENTION] have you measured from your center hub to fender up front? You essentially have the same set-up as me. I'm curious to see what you measure as compared to my 23 1/2. If it is comparable i'm not sure what else would be making the cv angles greater on mine. I have the front diff drop installed.

Wrote out a timeline of ride quality with the various suspension changes & listed some things I will be looking into to see if it resolves the vibration I get in AWD at highway speeds. In my case, this isn't a huge issue for me right now since I don't get any vibration in 2WD & the only time I will use AWD is if it is raining BUT, this would be a different story if it occurred in 2WD as well. Regardless, this is something I would still like to resolve. I bolded the info you were asking for so you didn't have to sort through the rest of my garbage. Also, don't remember if you said you had a diff drop but if not, that may be why your cv angles look steeper than mine...I don't have a pic of my angles but they don't look as steep and the ribs on my outer boots are not touching. I did notice this morning that the ribs on the inner boots are slightly touching. Not sure how much the 1" diff drop actually helps but I have one on mine.

After installation, alignment by "specialty shop", & some "fine tuning" on my coilovers, my mid hub to fender measurements were: (this was Jan 2015 w/ 890s in rear)

front driver: 22.75 - 23" (1.5" of threads showing)
front pass: 22.75-23" (.8" threads showing)

rear driver: 23-23.25"
rear pass: 23.25-23.5"


Ride quality:
-Very similar to stock with a "good firmness".
-No vibrations at any speed on paved roads in 2WD
-No vibrations at any speeds on paved roads in AWD (not locked 4WD).

==================================================

Fast forward to May 2015. I did some front end service work (cv's, lbj, tie rods - all OEM), installed SS adjustable panhard, toytec parking brake cable extension bracket, & switched out my 890s to superflex (haven't updated the pic or info in my sig yet). I thought I kept my coilover height the same but I actually forgot that I turned them up to match the superflex (I was wanting about .5 - .75" of rake).

After turning my front coilovers up & multiple alignments from firestone b/c they suck, my mid hub to fender measurements were: (w/ superflex)

front driver: 23-23.25" (1.7" threads showing)
front pass: 23-23.25" (1.0" threads showing)

rear driver: 23.25-23.5"
rear pass: 23.5-23.75"


Ride quality:
-A very slight increase in firmness in the front and mild increase in stiffness in the back probably due to superflex
-No vibrations at any speeds on paved roads in 2WD.
-No vibrations 0-50mph on paved roads in AWD.
-Moderate vibrations (similar feeling when driving on the emergency lane on the highway) 55+mph on paved roads with my foot on the gas in AWD. If i let off the gas and i'm at 55+mph, vibration goes away. If put it in neutral 55+mph, vibration goes away.

My current thoughts on potential causes for the vibration I get in AWD @ 55+mph & very possible I may be way off base:
-Issue with cv axles (angle, bad joint...even though there's no clicking sound, etc)
-Installation error, by me, when installing the axles. The passenger side axle is a toyota reman & the driver side is the factory original that I rebooted with a toyota boot kit.
-Installation error, by me, when installing itr/otr/lbj
-1/4" increase in ride height may have changed the cv angles just enough to create the vibration in AWD....but for some reason isn't there in 2WD.
-1/2 - 3/4" increase in rear height from superflex may have altered something in the back end enough to create vibrations in AWD at 55+mph (pinion angle, driveshaft, etc.).
-Adjustable panhard or parking brake extension braket doing something to alter something enough to cause vibrations in AWD at 55+mph....I'm just listing it b/c it is something i did not have installed pre-vibration & in case I end up ruling everything else out. I have my panhard adjusted to about 37.25"
 
I throw this in the mix. I had the same issue at 60-70MPH on my non-lifted runner. Took it to discount tire twice and they balanced them. Got back on the interstate and it was worse, hmmm. Went back a week later to discount tire and told them the story. One of their balancers was way out of calibration. Re-balanced and now the ride is as smooth as a sports car.

I have experienced this multiple times as well in another car that was supposed to be "properly balanced". I know you weren't necessarily referring to my situation, but the only reason I haven't looked into a possible tire balance issue is that I get vibration in AWD at high speeds & not 2wd
 
Problem fixed. Dropped my coilovers 1/2 inch today when letting on wheel spacers and vibrations are gone. Proper return to center back and no more tight steering. Should have done it weeks ago.

Don't feel any pulling out anything but should I still spend the $ on another alignment?
 
Don't feel any pulling out anything but should I still spend the $ on another alignment?

Nah, not unless you have lifetime alignment. & if its handling fine and tracking straight it should be fine. I never noticed a significant change in my alignment measurements whenever I adjusted my coilovers within .5" ride height. If anything, you probably got your camber closer to spec.
 
Problem fixed. Dropped my coilovers 1/2 inch today when letting on wheel spacers and vibrations are gone. Proper return to center back and no more tight steering. Should have done it weeks ago.

Not sure if your 4runner has the 4WD unlocked option (AWD) but if you do, have you tested it out in AWD at 55+mph?
 
Yea, but I tested it before I lowered the coilovers. Still had the vibration. I'll test it out again and get back to you.

Thanks for all your help on this!
 

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