Traction control

R

RickyCRX

New member
I realize the 4Runner has DSC, VSC, ABS, yadda, yadda, yadda... However, some of the beauty of driving my S2000 is that I don't have the car thinking for me, which makes it more fun to play with at times. I realize there is a 'TRAC OFF' button on the dash to turn off traction control, but as soon as I get moving again, the light on the dash goes off and the system is re-activated. Subsequent attempts to turn the system off fail, especially if I am moving. Is there any way to get the traction control system to REMAIN off while driving? I'm fine with the ABS system still being enabled, but not the traction control system. Does anybody have an answer?

And I don't need anybody saying, "But those systems are designed to protect you, blah, blah..." I have been racing cars for years and own what people think of as one of the 'twitchiest' rear wheel drive roadsters on the street and have no problem handling it in low traction situations without any electronic crutches. I just want to know how I can get the 4Runner to let me apply throttle at the rate *I* want it to when going around a corner without it trying to think for me.

Ricky
 
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i have searched high and low for a way to shut if off - with no luck. you at least have the advantage of shutting it off once in a while, the 4wd models never allow you to turn off the system. if you do come across a way to shut it down, please let me know!
 
Yeah, LOTS of info.... 17 pages worth; not a single of which tells me how to keep it turned off on a 4th gen after you reach a certain speed.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I want to be able to turn it off, and keep it off so that I can accelerate quickly out of a turn and not get slowed down by the clicking relay of death under the dash.

Ricky



GYoter said:
Lots of reading about it here:

http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=45793&highlight=TRAC
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I want to be able to turn it off, and keep it off so that I can accelerate quickly out of a turn and not get slowed down by the clicking relay of death under the dash.
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So I believe then that it is VSC that you want to turn off not TRAC.
VSC is the system that reacts to over and understeer. TRAC is the AWD system.

VSC is disabled whenever the center differential is locked. Somehow you need to spoof the vehicle into thinking that the center differential is locked when it isn't.
 
Guys.... Read my sig line... I have a 2WD... My only center differential is the one on my rear axle.

And no, it's not VSC; the tail is not stepping out and I am not understeering. I WANT to be able to step the tail out with on-throttle oversteer, but the traction control cuts throttle on me before it can even attempt to step out.

Ricky




dcampen said:
So I believe then that it is VSC that you want to turn off not TRAC.
VSC is the system that reacts to over and understeer. TRAC is the AWD system.

VSC is disabled whenever the center differential is locked. Somehow you need to spoof the vehicle into thinking that the center differential is locked when it isn't.
Click to expand...
 
Guys.... Read my sig line... I have a 2WD... My only center differential is the one on my rear axle.
Click to expand...
Oh, I often forget that people buy 4Runners without 4WD. I give up, I don't know anything about 2WD 4Runner systems.
 
I can't believe that no one has located the fuse(s) for the TRAC/VSC system(s) and just ripped them out to see what happens.

After all that reading, I couldn't find one solid account of someone who actually tried that, yet it seems so simple. It works with other Toyota products such as Supras....so it would be the first thing I would try.
 
I've been driving around for 5 days with a busted speed sensor on the front-end of my T4R. The dash is glowing like a Xmas tree but the only ill effects, according to the dealer, are no ABS and no TRAC / VSC.

FYI - It's getting fixed tonight.

YMMV
 
There's really nothing to it. I will likely never have a desire to go anywhere my 4Runner won't already take me with just 2WD, and I don't lose 2mpg nor do I need to cart around 200+lbs more metal everywhere I drive.

You have an engine, a tranny, a driveshaft, a rear diff, and your rear axle. A few speed sensors to input back to the computer what's going on. A button to turn everything off momentarily until you reach a certain speed; at which point you're stuck with all of the electronic crutches Toyota designed into the vehicle to help the 'average' driver keep themselves out of trouble.

I'm not the average driver, and don't have average reaction times or reflexes. The last time I let a vehicle think for me in an 'at the limits' situation, the vehicle almost put me into a curb on the INSIDE of a turn because it cut throttle mid-turn which caused the tail to step out even farther than it was going to with me on the throttle. That was one of those "put both feet down and countersteer at a full wheel lock to save the boat" moments. Ever since that point, I have developed a strong dislike for vehicle systems that try to think for me. ABS is about the only one I'll tolerate and that's only due to the fact that modern systems can pulse faster than my right foot can. If I owned the 1991 NSX that a friend of mine has (VERY early ABS system), I would unplug it and never look back, but the new ones I can't complain about too much.

I guess short of a hacking and reprogramming of the ECU, there's no way to make this thing turn on/off 100% by the push of the button, and it will always be back on when I reach a certain speed. Frustrating.

Ricky





dcampen said:
Oh, I often forget that people buy 4Runners without 4WD. I give up, I don't know anything about 2WD 4Runner systems.
Click to expand...
 
RickyCRX said:
Guys.... Read my sig line... I have a 2WD... My only center differential is the one on my rear axle.

And no, it's not VSC; the tail is not stepping out and I am not understeering. I WANT to be able to step the tail out with on-throttle oversteer, but the traction control cuts throttle on me before it can even attempt to step out.

Ricky
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Yes, it is VSC. VSC cuts engine throttle. Traction control does not.
Now you can refer more accurately to the thing you're stuck with.:D
 
VSC will react to prevent a slide as well as correct a slide. A momentary slip of a wheel (along with steering angle and G-sensor not matching) may cause VSC to jump to action (even if your dash light does not go off). So, VSC may act even though you're not hanging your tail out yet.

Your 4runner is NOT Honda S2000 (i am sure you realize that)...so you may need the electronic nannies. Personally, i would not treat my SUV as a sports car and hang my tail out around a corner...relative to a car, your 4runner has crappy handling, is a heavy-as-hell pig, has poor suspension design, and is a major tip-over risk.

Why would you want to drive your 4runner as a sports car even if you have cat-like reflexes and superhuman reaction time?? Physics will overcome all of that. It's a utility vehicle. If you want all that, then you surely have bought the wrong SUV!!

Aren't Porsche cars (older 911's) the twitchest thing around on the track (if you don't know what you're doing)??

Good luck in finding a solution to your insane driving styles on your 4runner.:D
 
There is a huge difference between 'insane' driving styles and quick smooth driving near the limits of traction. Insane driving is what a novice does at an AutoCross the first time he realizes he's not going to crash his car and goes out there and flogs the crap out of it, squeeling tires like mad, making lots of tire smoke, but getting the slowest time of the day. Being that I have instructed at several novice schools, I think I can speak to the fact that driving very quickly with smooth steering inputs does not equal insane driving.

As long as I don't HIT something, the 4Runner will not roll over on public roads. The tires simply don't have enough grip to allow it to roll over without hitting something like a curb, a ditch, etc.

Now, I am not talking about hanging the tail out 30+ degrees like I can do in my S2000 for fun, I am merely talking about being able to let the tail step out just a couple degrees WITHOUT the throttle being cut. I can easily steer to keep the tail in-line at the limits of traction if the vehicle would let me do it, but it won't.

Believe me, I've had enough pucker factor when my S10 Blazer has stepped the tail out unexpectedly in the rain; that thing has a lot more momentum than a car and with low traction situations and an open differential, just keeps going despite any efforts at countersteering. The 4Runner's suspension is a lot more responsive than the Blazer and should be able to do just fine given a situation like that if the driver knows how to handle it.

The reason why this bugs me is because there's this one particular turn when I am going home where the pavement is smooth and there is a wide street I am turning onto. The 4Runner cuts throttle on me EVERY TIME I go through this turn. I happen to enjoy this particular turn because you can see far enough ahead to know if somebody is there or not, and have plenty of room to hit the apex just right. Driving is something that's fun to me. I enjoy it. I just want to be able to fully enjoy it without the vehicle limiting me from doing the things I've safely done for a LONG time (even in similar vehicles with crappier suspensions).

I bought a 2WD 4Runner with the XREAS suspension for a reason; because I intended to use it as it was designed.

Ricky




Thai said:
VSC will react to prevent a slide as well as correct a slide. A momentary slip of a wheel (along with steering angle and G-sensor not matching) may cause VSC to jump to action (even if your dash light does not go off). So, VSC may act even though you're not hanging your tail out yet.

Your 4runner is NOT Honda S2000 (i am sure you realize that)...so you may need the electronic nannies. Personally, i would not treat my SUV as a sports car and hang my tail out around a corner...relative to a car, your 4runner has crappy handling, is a heavy-as-hell pig, has poor suspension design, and is a major tip-over risk.

Why would you want to drive your 4runner as a sports car even if you have cat-like reflexes and superhuman reaction time?? Physics will overcome all of that. It's a utility vehicle. If you want all that, then you surely have bought the wrong SUV!!

Aren't Porsche cars (older 911's) the twitchest thing around on the track (if you don't know what you're doing)??

Good luck in finding a solution to your insane driving styles on your 4runner.:D
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That is unfortunate that it can't be disengaged. I like the way my vehicle handles with the XREAS. Doesn't feel overly tippy when cornering.

Going forward, it seems that all this extra computer/electronic stuff will be the norm on all vehicles.

Better hang on to the Honda for your driving fun.
 
Not to hijack Ricky's thread.

Ricky knows me anyway! :)

Another S2000 owner here 2001 Berlina Black/Black. Bought my 05 4Runner Sport 4WD to tow the S2000 to track events and autoxes.

I'm a CO for the Florida forum on S2ki.com.
 
haha, it's amazing how those of us with S2000's realize that domestics are crap and come to Toyota for our tow vehicle duties... :-)

If just Honda would come out with something capable... The Ridgeline and Pilot platforms are such a joke with their towing capacities!!

Ricky



KDCane said:
Not to hijack Ricky's thread.

Ricky knows me anyway! :)

Another S2000 owner here 2001 Berlina Black/Black. Bought my 05 4Runner Sport 4WD to tow the S2000 to track events and autoxes.

I'm a CO for the Florida forum on S2ki.com.
Click to expand...
 
RickyCRX said:
Is there any way to get the traction control system to REMAIN off while driving? I'm fine with the ABS system still being enabled, but not the traction control system. Does anybody have an answer?

Ricky
Click to expand...

Ricky,
Looking at the wiring diagrams. The ABS and VSC and TRAC are all interlinked to the Skid Control ECU. There may be a way to over-ride the ABS motor from cycling (by pulling the TRC MTR Relay and jumpering pins 3 to 4) but there is no way to disconnect the Engine Control Module from throttling back the accelerator. Try the relay at your own risk.
 
I'm with Thai on this one - however great a driver you might be there are always other drivers on the road who may not have such cat-like reflexes and experience. There are plenty of posts on this board from people who have had some pretty nasty experiences, many of them not their fault - turning off ATRAC and/or VSC reduces your chances of escaping such an incident unharmed.

Toyota designed the 4Runner as an integrated system - adjusting for the top heavy design by introducing systems like VSC and ATRAC to reduce the risk of a rollover in particular. Studies have now shown how big a contribution VSC makes to reducing rollover rates and we are all painfully aware of the high mortality rates in such accidents. For everybody else's sake if not your own, please don't turn these systems off - just accept that the s2000 is the car for fast cornering etc and enjoy the 4Runner for what it is.
 
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