trans cooler vs better rad?

[mendozer]

Been contemplating the B&M kit for a while now, since I'm at 150k and looking to get to 300k easily. I understand the problem with the radiators (whether you go with Denso, Koyo, etc) is the fitting corroding.

Would that problem be completely solved with an aluminum radiator like the Champion?

I'm assuming the plastic to metal connection is what breaks down. I'd rather put in one great radiator/trans cooler than put in the B&M and keep inspecting the plastic one for cracks and leaks.

Basically, is there any risk of the milkshake with an aluminum rad?

 

[mendozer]

Another option may be this universal Summit rad.

It's shorter because no trans lines, so I'd have to do the B&M cooler, but this one runs 160 + 82 (B&M) for less than one champion at 270.

 

[poleclimber63]

I stayed with a Koyo oem style rad. I installed a B+M cooler, tranny temp gauge in the a pillar and bypassed the rad. When I did an engine replacement in 2015, I added a second cooler, as I wasnt entirely happy with the temp range when towing my sportboat or climbing steep inclines. At one point I was considering adding a fan but the material costs and complexity of the setup, I decided to just add the second cooler, and I'm totally happy with the arrangement.

 

[mtbtim]

I chose both. Replaced the radiator with an OEM replacement and added a trans cooler that I ran in-series with the stock cooler in the bottom of the radiator.

You have to decide for yourself if you're going to bypass if you're worried about the pink milkshake possibility. Do some more research and you'll figure out which way is the best for you.

 

[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

if you intend to bypass the stock atf cooler, you need to make sure that the replacement cooler will be enough to lower the atf temp to less than 200ºF when towing or when heavily loaded.

also, if you're in cold areas, you need to ensure that the replacement atf cooler will allow the atf to flow properly. there are some aftermarket coolers that have a bypass valve when the atf temp is less than a certain temp. and even if the atf cooler has a bypass valve, it does not heat-up the atf to allow the cold atf to warm up to the operating temp like what the stock cooler does so that means you'll have to stay at slow speeds for longer when starting up.

 

[mendozer]

I don't know when the rads been done. I've owned it since January 2016. Seems like most people don't like a bypass with towing especially. I don't ever want to worry about the milkshake, but I also don't know if a trans cooler is enough. Of course size is a limiting factor. If I did an aluminum radiator, would that get RID of the milkshake risk? It has to do with the fitting corroding correct? But is the plastic corroding, therefore aluminum would be better?

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[mtbtim]

I don't know when the rads been done. I've owned it since January 2016. Seems like most people don't like a bypass with towing especially. I don't ever want to worry about the milkshake, but I also don't know if a trans cooler is enough. Of course size is a limiting factor. If I did an aluminum radiator, would that get RID of the milkshake risk? It has to do with the fitting corroding correct? But is the plastic corroding, therefore aluminum would be better?

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What you need to understand is the Pink MIlkshake is much less common than you think. When you frequent a forum like this, problems like the pink milkshake get blown out of proportion. Transmission coolers inside radiators is a very common design. If it was such a common problem, you'd think you'd hear about it more. There's tons of people driving around with radiator transmission coolers and they don't worry about it because they've never heard of a pink milkshake. I'm not saying it's not a possibility but it's way less than you think. These forums are a wealth of knowledge but they can also cause people to worry unnecessarily about things.

 

[mendozer]

ok then with that in mind what's the purpose of the trans cooler, other than towing? I's assume Toyota got this right in terms of designing the cooling for the tranny

 

[StreetCreeper]

ok then with that in mind what's the purpose of the trans cooler, other than towing? I's assume Toyota got this right in terms of designing the cooling for the tranny

Pink milkshakes happen because of a lack of maintenance and/or age. It basically boils down to those two things barring a minor collision that breaks shit internally. So if you start fresh with a new radiator – you effective nullify the two main reasons for the pink milkshake to even happen if you properly maintain your cooling system until it's time to replace the radiator again.

So separate your needs. Do you want or need additional cooling ability? Do you want to eliminate completely or just greatly reduce the chance of a pink milkshake?

If you want additional transmission fluid cooling capability – then add an external transmission cooler in-series with your new radiator.

If you want to completely avoid the pink milkshake – then run an external cooler independent of your new or old radiator. Doing this will ensure you never have a pink milkshake. However, you may see increased tranny fluid temps in certain situations and could potentially cause eventual transmission damage by running higher than optimum temps.

Personally, I think it prudent to invest in a new radiator first and foremost because this nearly eliminates your risk for the pink shake. Then if you feel you need or just want additional cooling ability – add the external tranny cooler however you see fit.

 

[mtbtim]

ok then with that in mind what's the purpose of the trans cooler, other than towing? I's assume Toyota got this right in terms of designing the cooling for the tranny

The purpose of the trans cooler is to lower your trans temperatures so your fluid has a longer life and your transmission has a longer life as well. Excessive heat the #1 killer of automatic transmissions. Anyone who says transmission coolers are only for towing applications doesn't drive in the mountains and monitors their trans temp.

When you start climbing grades, your transmission temperature will quickly rise. If it's a sustained grade, your trans temp can get way up there and start lowering the life expectancy of your fluid and your transmission. Turning overdrive off can help if you're at that speed between 3rd gear and overdrive. When you're climbing a steep grade at slower speeds, turning off overdrive does nothing for you. If you do any mountain driving, there's a good chance you've hit temps around 230 degrees. It's not hard to do. There's a 7 mile hill near my house with an approximate 2000 foot elevation change. Without a trans cooler, I'd hit around 220 degrees by the time I hit the top. At 230 degrees, your transmission fluid will last around 30,000 miles. I think this is why the industry standard recommendation for renewing your trans fluid is every 30,000 miles.

The trans cooler I installed has dropped my fluid temps around 20 degrees. It doesn't seem like much but 20 degrees can make quite a bit of difference. At 230 degrees your fluid will last 30,000 miles. At 250 degrees, it will only last around 15,000 miles.

If you don't do much mountain driving, maybe you wouldn't benefit much from an external trans cooler. If you visit the mountains regularly like I do loaded down with gear, an external trans cooler ran in-series with your stock cooler is a very good idea.

 

[mendozer]

After this past weekend's fluid change I drove down to Mt St Helens. 140 on the freeway all the way down. Once I got on forest roads, 160, 170, 190, got as high as 226 on bumpy steep terrain.

so...aux cooler definitely needed. I hunt, hike, and ski so I'm in the steep stuff often.

For the rad, how do you know when you should replace it? In my past vehicles I bought new ones when the old one cracked.

And my main question for the rad is if the aluminum rad would be milkshake proof. I get that it's rare. But from what I briefly read and saw, it looked like the plastic to metal fitting corrodes

 

[mtbtim]

After this past weekend's fluid change I drove down to Mt St Helens. 140 on the freeway all the way down. Once I got on forest roads, 160, 170, 190, got as high as 226 on bumpy steep terrain.

so...aux cooler definitely needed. I hunt, hike, and ski so I'm in the steep stuff often.

For the rad, how do you know when you should replace it? In my past vehicles I bought new ones when the old one cracked.

And my main question for the rad is if the aluminum rad would be milkshake proof. I get that it's rare. But from what I briefly read and saw, it looked like the plastic to metal fitting corrodes

Dude, the only guarantees in life are DEATH and TAXES. I'm assuming this aluminum radiator will have a transmission cooler on the bottom of it? If it does, then it could develop a crack just like our OEM radiators can and then you could get a mixing of coolant and ATF and you get the dreaded pink milkshake.

The only way you can guarantee never having a pink milkshake is by bypassing. Wait, that's another guarantee. I guess my first statement is false then. Anyway, a high percentage of us have decided the best course of action is to buy a new radiator to lessen the chances of a transmission cooler failure and to also lessen the chances of a general radiator failure (some type of leak) that will leave of stranded somewhere. Radiators can last a very long time, no doubt. But for most of us, a $100-$200 investment is pretty cheap insurance. Same goes for the lower balljoints. Many of us have replaced them even when the boots are intact and there's no detectable play because it's again cheap insurance.

I was considering bypassing my trans cooler but after doing extensive research, I decided running an external cooler in-series was the best decision for me. There's many threads dedicated to this topic and that's why I told you to do more research and decide which way you believe is best for you. You will read good arguments on both sides.

Here's a couple threads I started on the subject:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/217667-trans-temps-bypassing-using-external-cooler.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...sion-temperatures-how-relates-life-fluid.html

Here's a thread that gets into some really heated discussions on the topic:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/107129-transmission-cooler-pass-radiator-not-pass.html

 

[gamefreakgc]

After this past weekend's fluid change I drove down to Mt St Helens. 140 on the freeway all the way down. Once I got on forest roads, 160, 170, 190, got as high as 226 on bumpy steep terrain.

so...aux cooler definitely needed. I hunt, hike, and ski so I'm in the steep stuff often.

For the rad, how do you know when you should replace it? In my past vehicles I bought new ones when the old one cracked.

And my main question for the rad is if the aluminum rad would be milkshake proof. I get that it's rare. But from what I briefly read and saw, it looked like the plastic to metal fitting corrodes

You are overthinking this. It's not rocket science, just preventative maintenance.

There's only two major hazards to these 4Runners, failing ball joints and failing radiators, most of which happen with vehicle at or over 200k miles. That's a lot of miles before any sort of failure, a lot of other cars have serious issues way before that. A new radiator is the best way to go. You'll find that a new radiator also cool better since the fins are not bent and the interior is not corroded at all. That might also eliminate the need for a cooler at all.

I have one but because the supercharger puts out extra heat. More heat in the engine = hotter coolant = hotter transmission fluid due to the stock cooler. If I did not have a supercharger I would not have bothered with a cooler, just replaced the radiator.

 

[mtbtim]

After this past weekend's fluid change I drove down to Mt St Helens. 140 on the freeway all the way down. Once I got on forest roads, 160, 170, 190, got as high as 226 on bumpy steep terrain.

See, just like I told you. People who say external coolers are only for those that tow either don't drive in the mountains and/or don't monitor their transmission fluid temps. And, even with an external cooler, you can see some very high temps and that's why it's important to monitor the trans temp. I hit 240 on a very steep sustained road in the Santa Cruz mountains. I was just about to pull over and let my transmission cool down when we finally reached our destination. I probably should have pulled over when I reached 230 but I had 4 other people in my rig and we were trying to make it in time for a wedding. But just think, if I didn't have that external trans cooler, maybe I would have hit 260.

Knowing what I know now about transmission fluid temps, there's no doubt I cooked the transmission in my Honda Accord. I use to pack 3 other guys in that little car, 4 bicycles on top and all our gear and drive up to places like Mammoth Mountain ski resort and Big Bear ski resort for mountain bike races. I pushed that car super hard and know I must have been reaching some very high transmission temps pushing up those grades. My transmission started to slip on one of the trips up to Big Bear and after that it was never the same. It was ok for city driving but any long drives where the transmission got hotter on any grades caused the transmission to slip and I'd have to pull over and let it cool down. I ultimately donated that car to charity because I didn't want to invest any more money it it.

 

[3bears]

Like many have said , a new radiator is cheap insurance. I made a new radiator priority 2 ( after LBJ's).I went also with a cooler . The first winter I did have the radiator bypassed, but living and working in the snow and mountains, my temps did not get up to correct operating temp, so I went back to in series.

I like the look of the champions, saw one installed on a 4runner. But did not know they exsisted until after I installed my new denso.

Don't go cheap. I got my denso from amazon. then I found out about camelback and I could have gone original Toyota for only 20 more.

 

[HiLife]

I got my radiator directly from oem Toyota online expecting to get a Denso radiator with an Toyota oem part number on it.
What I got was a Denso radiator with a Denso part number on it.
I could've saved some money by not paying dealership Toyota prices, and ordered the Denso radiator from Amazon.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Mendozer, all the heat gets put into the ATF from the torque converter when it's not in lockup. It does suck that locking out overdrive only lowers the lockup point by about 5mph. My truck and jeep will lockup the torque converter at 30mph when overdrive is disabled.


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[mendozer]

I got my radiator directly from oem Toyota online expecting to get a Denso radiator with an Toyota oem part number on it.
What I got was a Denso radiator with a Denso part number on it.
I could've saved some money by not paying dealership Toyota prices, and ordered the Denso radiator from Amazon.

Yeah I thought dense made oem. I'll just go with plastic whenever I do this

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[Lastplace]

If an engine runs too cool it will malfunction. Is there an ideal temp for the transmission to operate at?

 

[phattyduck]

Pink milkshakes happen because of a lack of maintenance and/or age. It basically boils down to those two things barring a minor collision that breaks shit internally. So if you start fresh with a new radiator – you effective nullify the two main reasons for the pink milkshake to even happen if you properly maintain your cooling system until it's time to replace the radiator again.

So much this. My 4Runner had 270k miles and 18 years on the radiator when I replaced it. This is the trans cooler section, removed from the radiator:

No corrosion, only some build up from non-Toyota coolant. The trans fluid and coolant were changed regularly through the life of the vehicle (always in my family, Dad, sister, now me). I even removed the fittings - no problems inside either.

The plastic tanks (leaking/breaking) are more likely to be the first problem if you take care of your fluids so they don't corrode your parts.

-Charlie