Transmission fluid change @ 60K?
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Dougtoms01
New member
I guess my response would be if you have the $$, why not change it. If it has never been changed, then I would make it a priority along with differential, and lubrication. Best regards, Doug
ClockWork
Banned
It's not supposed to have been done anytime before that so why is it a priority?
If you're going to touch it do it right and get a fluid exchange. Only certain dealers know what the hell their doing with the sealed Aisin transmission that the 4R has.
It cost me $400 on the cruiser for 16 quarts of WS fluid + labor. Th 4R should be somewhat similar.
If you have not done the diffs, I recommend swapping over to M1 synthetic which will give you piece of mind for at least 60k intervals. You need around 7 quarts to do all three diffs.
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ClockWork
Banned
Sounds like a plan. There is a PDF floating around with the fill procedure and how to check that the level is correct. I have it at home and can get it later if you need it. The exchange needs to be done at operating temperature. Just make sure the service counter confirms this with you before they touch it.
alaskaman
Senior Member
You bet! Thanks.
Even though the fluid is a LifeTime fluid...I'd never leave it in there for the life of the vehicle...My 4runner has over 190k miles on it...and the tranny fluid has already been replaced 3 times.....If you plan on keeping this vehicle a long time...then this is very very cheap insurance in doing so.
alaskaman
Senior Member
I agree. I am getting the exchange done for $119.00 and well worth it IMO as well. I did confirm that they perform this at operating temperature.
Thanks for the assistance and advice.
ClockWork
Banned
That includes the 14 necessary quarts of WS fluid @ ~$8 a quart? Doesn't sound like they're doing the correct procedure. That estimate sounds like a pan drop and top off leaving a ton of old fluid in the torque converter.
alaskaman
Senior Member
So this morning Toyota San Diego says that I have the non serviceable transmission fluid (never needs to be changed). OK did not know that.
They also wanted to do the recall gas pedal. I said nope. They said it's Toyota not them that mandates it. I said no.
Seriously? Anyway they are doing the 60K service and throwing in sparkplug change out for the price of the transmission service. $119.00.
They also wanted to do the recall gas pedal. I said nope. They said it's Toyota not them that mandates it. I said no.
Seriously? Anyway they are doing the 60K service and throwing in sparkplug change out for the price of the transmission service. $119.00.
ClockWork
Banned
Like I said, find a dealer that knows what they're talking about. The dealer you have been in contact with is either lazy or ignorant.
alaskaman
Senior Member
I get your take.... What is so special about this WS that people don't want to open it up? Toyota recommends not changing. Must be made of silicon of something?
ClockWork
Banned
It's not that they don't want to open it up it's that there is no traditional dipstick and Toyota says its "sealed" for this reason. The 2003 CRuiser and 4Runner have traditional dipsticks and type IV fluid in them. They decided to use WS fluid in 04+ models.
The fluid exchange procedure requires a specific machine and is not the same as a fluid flush.
The fluid exchange procedure requires a specific machine and is not the same as a fluid flush.
alaskaman
Senior Member
ClockWork
Banned
There is no such thing as a lifetime fluid in a car. ESPECIALLY the transmission.
The choice is up to you. I did the exchange @ 93k in my cruiser.
"Lifetime fluid" is nonsense. I predict the phrase will be the source of a class action lawsuit at some point in the next few years (when people whose transmissions fail at 200,000 miles due to burnt/dirty fluid start complaining that "Toyota told me it was lifetime fluid so I thought I never had to change it!"). In reality, they mean ~100k miles, although I heard Toyota is now saying that the WS should be changed every 60k, rather than every 100k (if true, what does that tell you about what they are finding with their WS fluid?).
The problem with fluid changes is that you pay for it now but get the benefit later. You could probably go 50,000 miles without changing the engine oil and not notice the difference, but you'll dramatically lessen the lifespan of the motor. Same principle applies for the other fluids. Given the fact that a transmission is a very expensive part, might as well spend the few hundred bucks every 60,000-70,000 miles to keep it properly maintained with fresh fluid and extend its lifespan. At worst, you spent $300 every five years on unnecessary transmission maintenance. At best, you saved yourself from having to pay $3,000 to replace/rebuild a tranny.
I flushed mine with Redline D4 ATF at 67k mi, and the fluid was black. The flush was kind of a pain, but it's doable. I added a tranny cooler at the same time, so I figured I'd do the flush as long as I was messing around with those lines anyway. I followed this diy:
DIY: Full Flush for Automatic Transmission - Tacoma World Forums
I have had zero problems with it since putting the new fluid in it. Shifts smooth as ever, and we even towed a 4300# trailer up to the mountains.
Make sure you have an accurate torque wrench and only torque the drain plug down to like 15-16 ft-lbs. Ask me how I know...
The problem with fluid changes is that you pay for it now but get the benefit later. You could probably go 50,000 miles without changing the engine oil and not notice the difference, but you'll dramatically lessen the lifespan of the motor. Same principle applies for the other fluids. Given the fact that a transmission is a very expensive part, might as well spend the few hundred bucks every 60,000-70,000 miles to keep it properly maintained with fresh fluid and extend its lifespan. At worst, you spent $300 every five years on unnecessary transmission maintenance. At best, you saved yourself from having to pay $3,000 to replace/rebuild a tranny.
I flushed mine with Redline D4 ATF at 67k mi, and the fluid was black. The flush was kind of a pain, but it's doable. I added a tranny cooler at the same time, so I figured I'd do the flush as long as I was messing around with those lines anyway. I followed this diy:
DIY: Full Flush for Automatic Transmission - Tacoma World Forums
I have had zero problems with it since putting the new fluid in it. Shifts smooth as ever, and we even towed a 4300# trailer up to the mountains.
Make sure you have an accurate torque wrench and only torque the drain plug down to like 15-16 ft-lbs. Ask me how I know...
I've heard it all goes black eventually, and that smell is actually a better indicator, but I just liked having it new and red. The manual says to check it at 60k if you're towing or driving in rough conditions -- how do they check the fluid quality? Smell only? Is there a viscosity test of some sort the dealership does?
Re 60k changes, all I've heard is internet rumor, which is why I'm careful to say, "If true..." Sources like this:
http://www.atp-inc.com/Portals/0/tech/08-17.html
suggest there's a growing consensus in favor of shorter change intervals. If I find something more concrete I'll certainly share it.
ClockWork
Banned
I'll poke around BITOG. There seem to be few if any reports from cruisers or 4Runners. The TC is locked driving around for me most of the time. In addition, the relative huge capacity and trans cooler mitigate any heat issues quite well.
It says in the manual to check it which means Toyota has their asses covered.
It says in the manual to check it which means Toyota has their asses covered.
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