If you move to another forum with all your details (to be honest, I'd back them all up now. I've got a copy of my whole auto HVAC swap for mitsubishi evo's in the event that the forum ever dies) and write-ups please let us know where we can find your info!
TRD Pro Side Mirror Swap/Upgrade
- Thread starter XswampX
- Start date
If you move to another forum with all your details (to be honest, I'd back them all up now. I've got a copy of my whole auto HVAC swap for mitsubishi evo's in the event that the forum ever dies) and write-ups please let us know where we can find your info!
jcage89
New member
Yeah I second this!!! Holy crap, it would be a detriment to all members here if a talented generous fella like [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION] was prevented from sharing USEFUL mods that are facilitated by harnesses he develops/offers at what I guarantee is zero profit if you factor in his time an energy. This guy cares about others and is doing this to be helpful vs. others looking to extract huge profits on stuff. [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION] got into a "locking of horns" advocating for all of us not too long ago as a matter of fact with another member transplanted from TACO forums looking to charge many multiples over cost for the folding motors in a automated side mirror solution. He did that because he himself shopped the same parts and knew how little they cost and was willing to facilitate getting those to forum members on more of like a group buy scenario in combo with the harness he is developing. That is not the actions of guy doing this just to make a profit. Not to cast anyone looking to make a profit in a less than favorable light as long as everyone knows the score and those people pay the ad fees or whatever (What about the dude plugging the Sprint Booster on every other post on that thread as part of "useful advice" and accolades because he sells them... is that a registered vendor paying a cut of all his Booster sales to the forum??), but that is NOT [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION]! He has helped ME make no fewer than four DIY adjustments to my rig (things Toyota should have had there to begin with) that create daily utility and enjoyment for me and for that I am very thankful. I hope the mods see logic on this one. Review his past posts, he is helping us not making a lving off us.:loco::loco:
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ElectroBoy
Banned
This vendor classification seems pretty arbitrary; the rules should be posted for all to see. BTW, how do we contact mods or admins to advocate for [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION]?
This whole thing is a disservice to this community.
Perhaps the root of the tread deletions have to that Old Red is free with the information and knowledge he gains on projects. Other people not so much and maybe Old Red’s generosity is a threat to them?
Old Red is not trying to make money here! Considering R&D, material costs, labor time to assemble, package & ship. Where’s the profit margin?! Imagine if he was here to make money, he’d be better off working at Wal Mart.
Sounds like he may have made some enemies trying to do this just as service to people here, and not for profit like others.
Perhaps the root of the tread deletions have to that Old Red is free with the information and knowledge he gains on projects. Other people not so much and maybe Old Red’s generosity is a threat to them?
Old Red is not trying to make money here! Considering R&D, material costs, labor time to assemble, package & ship. Where’s the profit margin?! Imagine if he was here to make money, he’d be better off working at Wal Mart.
Sounds like he may have made some enemies trying to do this just as service to people here, and not for profit like others.
[MENTION=269972]DEUS-MACH1NA[/MENTION], [MENTION=156113]llDemonll[/MENTION], [MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION], [MENTION=200736]ElectroBoy[/MENTION], [MENTION=164197]Beach5150[/MENTION], first off guys, I appreciate the kind words, and the support. It means a lot, and that the time spent trying to figure this stuff out was not a waste, and not just for a single guy wanting to make his 4R a little more unique.
[MENTION=269972]DEUS-MACH1NA[/MENTION], I hope I have in some way or another. Goodness knows others have contributed even more, and I hope to keep doing so with some more technical style write ups that go in depth on components rather than mods. Even if my how-to style threads were specific to a certain mod, I hope that the instructions could be used for other things like disassembly of the center stack, or as encouragement that tearing into the dash or other area of your vehicle is actually manageable.
Everything I do is something I have done to my vehicle, and is from some insight I have gained from sometimes stupidly deciding to disassemble it a little further each time I decide to pull the tools out. There are times when I disassemble a little too much, and then go ask myself “why did I do that today”? I only do this as a hobby to entertain myself when I get bored, or need to switch gears and problem solve something unrelated to my job or career goals. This is, nor ever was meant to be a business.
[MENTION=156113]llDemonll[/MENTION] , I have copies of my write-ups, and my more technical answers to certain questions. I have retained the ability to remove my work if it comes down to it. I hope I don’t have to go down that road.
I don’t know if I am/where I am moving my write-ups and other stuff, but if I do I will let folks know, and if I am unable to notify folks on here, there are people who know how to get a hold of me without the forum.
[MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION], I’m glad the small mods have made the PRO more enjoyable! The whole purpose was to add things the 4Runner should have had, and not be limited by trim levels or model year. Some of the mods that I wanted to do had never been completed, or attempted as far as I knew, so it was somewhat of a gamble going out and trying to find parts and attempting things like the meter display. I agree, making a profit if you offer value for those who choose to do business with you is perfectly fine, so long as the score is clear, and everyone gets value out of it. That’s how things should be, but in today’s environment the mentality is to extract as much as possible for as little effort as possible and is the unfortunate norm.
[MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION], [MENTION=164197]Beach5150[/MENTION], the thing is that if I added up all the hours I spent tinkering, disassembling, prototyping, trying to source a connector, hitting a dead end, and starting over, making each harness, and then had to pay myself for it, it would not be a positive integer. That being said, I do the above because I enjoy it, and it is fun to tinker, and when you get a result, or a new finding that prompts further testing, it’s exciting.
Any money made off the sale of a harness has gone into testing new stuff, acquiring a used part for testing for a project, or purchasing connectors, terminals, wire, etc. The meter harness sale allowed me to purchase what was needed to start the process of getting the connectors for the mirror retrofit harness, and to make the foot well light harness, and unfortunately due to unknowns with the Main body MPX ECU between model years, I had to change the design of the foot light harness after the first batch went out, and sent the new design as replacements to the folks who were in the first group. The replacement design actually was more to make time and cost wise, yet I never changed the price for the second batch, and because it was my mistake and assumption that all the MPX ECU was the same for the 2010-18MY regardless of trim or year manufactured, I paid for the difference with the little bit of profit that would have gone towards more R&D. So, the foot well light was pretty much a wash in that regard, but still it was a good learning experience on multiple fronts
[MENTION=164197]Beach5150[/MENTION], I hope to share a lot more as technical info, in addition to the mods, and I hope that members here are able to take that information and build on it, or take it and try applying it to more than the 4Runner. A large part of the time spent doing this is physically looking over the PCB’s of the ECU’s like the MPX and Instrument Cluster to figure out who manufacturers the ECU, who manufacturers the components on the board, and how are they interacting. I am farther along on some compared others, but I hope to be able to post up a PDF for each if possible showing the manufacturer, each component, the datasheets from the component manufacturers if available, and how things work together. Again, the more you understand, the more things seem not as complex to mess with. Right now, I have two more write up’s I am slowly working on, but with all of this, it makes me not want to add it here. Both are first times that the modification has been done on a 5th gen, and ones a project has been a requested on for a while. It just takes time to type everything up, and when you work a full time job, are pursuing a future professional career, free time can be hard to find between life’s more pertinent, and pressing demands.
[MENTION=200736]ElectroBoy[/MENTION], I appreciate you guys wanting to go to bat for me! I just don’t want to see you guys get the same treatment down the road. I have contacted the admin and have followed up with the 5th gen mod, and have not received a response from either since last Monday the 9th. Whether or not they are able or willing to give me a straight answer is concerning to me. I can’t find any rules about when you are a vendor vs. member, and how it is being applied looks to be at the whim and discretion of the party handing down the rulings. Everyone should be required to play by the same rules, and those rules should be clear, and upheld with impartiality.
I have been told I need have vendor classification, and yet I cannot find, nor can someone provide me with what should be a simple answer as to the criteria differentiating a member and a vendor, and as to why my past threads were fine but not my new one. Additionally, why my thread is requiring me to have vendor status, but other members who do something similar do not.
More concerning to me, is that the party handing down the response I received regarding having to have a vendor classification is the same party who went and started the thread for the individual I locked horns with regarding the folding mirror stuff (like [MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION] mentioned). The facts I posted were done in good faith for the community. To me it seems like clear retaliation, but a simple answer of clarification is all that is needed to clear that up. If it is retaliation, then I question the motives behind it, and further find it unbefitting of the party in question, along with other things. At that point becomes a clear indication of how things are.
So guys, I appreciate the kind words, and the fact you are willing to go to bat for me. I just don’t want you guys getting the same treatment as a result. Hopefully I can get some clarification and this misunderstanding can be resolved. You are always welcome to get a hold me if you want a better understanding of the things I have listed above.
[MENTION=269972]DEUS-MACH1NA[/MENTION], I hope I have in some way or another. Goodness knows others have contributed even more, and I hope to keep doing so with some more technical style write ups that go in depth on components rather than mods. Even if my how-to style threads were specific to a certain mod, I hope that the instructions could be used for other things like disassembly of the center stack, or as encouragement that tearing into the dash or other area of your vehicle is actually manageable.
Everything I do is something I have done to my vehicle, and is from some insight I have gained from sometimes stupidly deciding to disassemble it a little further each time I decide to pull the tools out. There are times when I disassemble a little too much, and then go ask myself “why did I do that today”? I only do this as a hobby to entertain myself when I get bored, or need to switch gears and problem solve something unrelated to my job or career goals. This is, nor ever was meant to be a business.
[MENTION=156113]llDemonll[/MENTION] , I have copies of my write-ups, and my more technical answers to certain questions. I have retained the ability to remove my work if it comes down to it. I hope I don’t have to go down that road.
I don’t know if I am/where I am moving my write-ups and other stuff, but if I do I will let folks know, and if I am unable to notify folks on here, there are people who know how to get a hold of me without the forum.
[MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION], I’m glad the small mods have made the PRO more enjoyable! The whole purpose was to add things the 4Runner should have had, and not be limited by trim levels or model year. Some of the mods that I wanted to do had never been completed, or attempted as far as I knew, so it was somewhat of a gamble going out and trying to find parts and attempting things like the meter display. I agree, making a profit if you offer value for those who choose to do business with you is perfectly fine, so long as the score is clear, and everyone gets value out of it. That’s how things should be, but in today’s environment the mentality is to extract as much as possible for as little effort as possible and is the unfortunate norm.
[MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION], [MENTION=164197]Beach5150[/MENTION], the thing is that if I added up all the hours I spent tinkering, disassembling, prototyping, trying to source a connector, hitting a dead end, and starting over, making each harness, and then had to pay myself for it, it would not be a positive integer. That being said, I do the above because I enjoy it, and it is fun to tinker, and when you get a result, or a new finding that prompts further testing, it’s exciting.
Any money made off the sale of a harness has gone into testing new stuff, acquiring a used part for testing for a project, or purchasing connectors, terminals, wire, etc. The meter harness sale allowed me to purchase what was needed to start the process of getting the connectors for the mirror retrofit harness, and to make the foot well light harness, and unfortunately due to unknowns with the Main body MPX ECU between model years, I had to change the design of the foot light harness after the first batch went out, and sent the new design as replacements to the folks who were in the first group. The replacement design actually was more to make time and cost wise, yet I never changed the price for the second batch, and because it was my mistake and assumption that all the MPX ECU was the same for the 2010-18MY regardless of trim or year manufactured, I paid for the difference with the little bit of profit that would have gone towards more R&D. So, the foot well light was pretty much a wash in that regard, but still it was a good learning experience on multiple fronts
[MENTION=164197]Beach5150[/MENTION], I hope to share a lot more as technical info, in addition to the mods, and I hope that members here are able to take that information and build on it, or take it and try applying it to more than the 4Runner. A large part of the time spent doing this is physically looking over the PCB’s of the ECU’s like the MPX and Instrument Cluster to figure out who manufacturers the ECU, who manufacturers the components on the board, and how are they interacting. I am farther along on some compared others, but I hope to be able to post up a PDF for each if possible showing the manufacturer, each component, the datasheets from the component manufacturers if available, and how things work together. Again, the more you understand, the more things seem not as complex to mess with. Right now, I have two more write up’s I am slowly working on, but with all of this, it makes me not want to add it here. Both are first times that the modification has been done on a 5th gen, and ones a project has been a requested on for a while. It just takes time to type everything up, and when you work a full time job, are pursuing a future professional career, free time can be hard to find between life’s more pertinent, and pressing demands.
[MENTION=200736]ElectroBoy[/MENTION], I appreciate you guys wanting to go to bat for me! I just don’t want to see you guys get the same treatment down the road. I have contacted the admin and have followed up with the 5th gen mod, and have not received a response from either since last Monday the 9th. Whether or not they are able or willing to give me a straight answer is concerning to me. I can’t find any rules about when you are a vendor vs. member, and how it is being applied looks to be at the whim and discretion of the party handing down the rulings. Everyone should be required to play by the same rules, and those rules should be clear, and upheld with impartiality.
I have been told I need have vendor classification, and yet I cannot find, nor can someone provide me with what should be a simple answer as to the criteria differentiating a member and a vendor, and as to why my past threads were fine but not my new one. Additionally, why my thread is requiring me to have vendor status, but other members who do something similar do not.
More concerning to me, is that the party handing down the response I received regarding having to have a vendor classification is the same party who went and started the thread for the individual I locked horns with regarding the folding mirror stuff (like [MENTION=8730]jcage89[/MENTION] mentioned). The facts I posted were done in good faith for the community. To me it seems like clear retaliation, but a simple answer of clarification is all that is needed to clear that up. If it is retaliation, then I question the motives behind it, and further find it unbefitting of the party in question, along with other things. At that point becomes a clear indication of how things are.
So guys, I appreciate the kind words, and the fact you are willing to go to bat for me. I just don’t want you guys getting the same treatment as a result. Hopefully I can get some clarification and this misunderstanding can be resolved. You are always welcome to get a hold me if you want a better understanding of the things I have listed above.
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hjscura
New member
I just installed the harness from @old_red with the meso puddle lamps and also got some side mirrors from rock auto.
Install was super easy with the PDF that he gives you.
I recommend using OEM mirrors as I had some fitment issues with the plastic trim on the mirror. My OEM ones couldn't sit on the housing well and I had to do some trimming here and there for the puddle lamps to sit correctly.
Thank you again @old_red!
Install was super easy with the PDF that he gives you.
I recommend using OEM mirrors as I had some fitment issues with the plastic trim on the mirror. My OEM ones couldn't sit on the housing well and I had to do some trimming here and there for the puddle lamps to sit correctly.
Thank you again @old_red!
Attachments
jeroweezy
New member
looks great! cant wait to refurb my oem side mirrors to do this conversion
ForRun
New member
This sounds promising! Sorry if its been posted. anyone know where to get a schematic that shows the where the HF1/IF1 taps are? Would love to add my own switch to the Meso lights, thanks
r1verf3nix
New member
I just want to second this a million times if I could. I did all the research I could on this myself and came up with places to land the Puddle/Turn wires within the cab and that plan was difficult and required a lot of panel removal to work.
[MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION]'s hard work took that install time down to less than an hour and is almost completely OEM.
Kudos to you sir for the hard work.
The HF1/IF1 are the 20-pin connectors located just inside the cab where the door wiring and plug enter the cab. Located behind the removable kick panel on both the driver and passenger side. I understand how that part could be a bit confusing on his writeup.
Another part I thought was a bit confusing or at least I wanted to make sure I got absolutely correct was the orientation of all the connectors when placing [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION]'s oem terminals into the connector. While I couldn't find the line in the writeup the pin numbers and location correspond to if you are looking directly at the male connector (i.e. HF1/IF1 as if from the female counterpart connectors view. I didn't want to mess that up and have to go through the process of un-pinning a perfectly good terminal if I placed it into pin #12 instead of pin #20.
That would be my only comment and the rest was easy and straight forward. Again thank you [MENTION=150567]Old Red[/MENTION]
Jesse1983
5th Gen Moderator
The rules are pretty simple, if you want to bulk sell things you must become a vendor. the link for which can be found on the right hand side of every page on this site, and here:
Become Sponsor/Advertiser - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
Become Sponsor/Advertiser - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
First question is, “What’s your business type.”
He doesn’t have a business. It’s not a for profit enterprise.
He doesn’t have a business. It’s not a for profit enterprise.
If the rules are so simple and clear, why are they not posted in the General Discussions section under the forum rules? How about the classifieds section? You guys need to post them up with CLEAR guidelines and criteria for when you can be a member and when you are a "vendor".
Right now it's funny how and why those rules are being applied when no one can view them, and verify for themselves. I'm curious, why is it a moderator can open a for sale thread for someone from another site clearly here pushing a product in "bulk" without vendor status, but yet deletes another members thread for far less?
Is there an exception we don't know about?
This whole thing is a farce. There are countless other threads where people make and sell little things they figure out and do on their 4Runners. Mine was, and is no different.
If I was a business trying to make a profit I would be advertising right and left. I would be going site to site advertising, with "ORDER NOW!!!".
How many posts have I made "advertising" my mods? Last I checked, none. I have my two "How To" threads, and the corresponding classified threads to keep actual useful info separate from the usually information empty posts that make up the classifieds. If people hear about my stuff it's by word of mouth. There is no selling in "bulk".
[MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION], please clear this up.
It’s as if you got complaint(s) from vendor(s) who felt threatened by your generosity of knowledge and non-profiteering.
In that case, of course, they’ll side with those from who there is a financial gain.
In that case, of course, they’ll side with those from who there is a financial gain.
Jesse1983
5th Gen Moderator
yes, I started a thread for a new member who designed a new product/solution when she was too new to start a thread. many people here reported her for not being a vendor and as a result her thread was shut down (not by me). let's also not forget how you attacked her and her product stating that people could buy the parts for less than her offered solution. which i'm pretty sure is the case with many products people buy every day, probably even yours. but rather than just support her and the time she spent trying to figure something out, you just tried your best to discredit her with a page long post that must have taken you an hour to put together.
and i'm not sure why you're confused about what selling is but let me try and explain. When you have an item for which you are attempting to exchange with someone for money that is defined as a "sale." Every item in the for sale section represents this. If someone were to manufacture or introduce a product or solution, say an interior mod, and attempt to sell mass quantities, then they are, or attempting to be, a vendor. This applies even if the thread is created under the guise of being a "How-To." Can you perform the "How-To" without buying your product? Did you ever create a group-buy thread for one of your products? Did that thread generate over 100 orders? Are you seeing the difference here?
You want to sell things without doing it officially. You want to complain about unjust treatment while also treating others unjustly. Suck it up and pay the fee and be a vendor. Or create your "How-To's" and provide people with the means in which to truly do it themselves without sending you any money.
ElectroBoy
Banned
I’m still confused.
What is the threshold of sales to be regarded as a vendor?
Is it quantity based?
Dollar amount based?
Does every member who wants to sell used items, or parting out a junker, need to be a vendor?
Just trying to understand.
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Just gotta be a girl to get a pass :banana:
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