Trouble on cold starts

[fishtizzy]

Last two times turning over my truck has been a little rough. The 1st time it took the whole starting cycle to kick over and it struggled for a sec to get running. This morning it struggled to fire and when it did the engine was ticking hard, sounded like it didn't have oil or was mis-firing. After about two seconds it smoothed out. My wife was loading gear in the back and she said the smell that came out of tailpipe was awful. No engine codes. Battery is about 4 years old and died on me about a month ago. Jumped it with no issue. No further issues until two days ago. Haven't noticed the rear wiper moving on startup indicating battery issues.

2004 sr5 4x4 v6
160k miles
K&N filter
Iridium plugs 10-12k miles ago
Last tank of fuel was from top tier station
Fuel system treated/cleaned by dealership 5/2014
Run Lucas fuel system treatment every oil change

Thoughts?

 

[fishtizzy]

Bump for help.

Started "OK" this morning - belt tensioner is squeaking when its cold and there is a low whine coming from one of the accessories when its cold as well. Both go away after my 20 min commute.

 

[progress4m]

Without any codes it is hard to diagnose (or make an educated guess)… I would start by looking closely on the battery, if you have a voltmeter to record lowest voltage it drops to during start-up (good battery will not drop below 11 V) I would look at that, if not, take it to auto parts store to and get free battery testing ;

In essence, it could be as simple as a bad battery (and hopefully it is) or it could be as bad as Head Gasket (since you have V6).

Good luck to you!

 

[fishtizzy]

Without any codes it is hard to diagnose (or make an educated guess)… I would start by looking closely on the battery, if you have a voltmeter to record lowest voltage it drops to during start-up (good battery will not drop below 11 V) I would look at that, if not, take it to auto parts store to and get free battery testing ;

In essence, it could be as simple as a bad battery (and hopefully it is) or it could be as bad as Head Gasket (since you have V6).

Good luck to you!

Thanks for the advice - I'm running over to the parts store tonight to borrow a micrometer to measure the sway bars (performing the upgrade to all my bushings this weekend) and will have them test the battery while I'm there. If there was a a head gasket issue, wouldn't I see oil or coolant seeping from somewhere on the head/block? What are some of the other symptoms of a bad head gasket?

 

[fishtizzy]

I was unaware of the possible HG issues with '04 v6's until today... :doh: I had the white smoke after the hard cold startup as reported, coolant was low when I had it in the shop in September, and I always hear gurgling from under the dash - thought it was just coolant going through the heater core. Looks like I'm smelling the coolant after work today too. Also had it through VSC/TRAC engine lights on a couple months back but it went away (done this two times since 2013) so I'm not sure what codes cut.

My wife has been driving the truck since we bought it in '11 with 105k miles on it so I never noticed anything cause I rarely drove it.

Replacing the wheel bearings and SB/EL bushings this weekend, thankful that I own the truck so we aren't double dipping each month paying for this thing :doh:
Oh the joys of owning a used vehicle...

 

[progress4m]

Thanks for the advice - I'm running over to the parts store tonight to borrow a micrometer to measure the sway bars (performing the upgrade to all my bushings this weekend) and will have them test the battery while I'm there. If there was a a head gasket issue, wouldn't I see oil or coolant seeping from somewhere on the head/block? What are some of the other symptoms of a bad head gasket?

With 4.0 L V6 HG failure you would normally get rough cold start because of misfiring on cylinder # 6 or #4 (code P0306 and \or P0304), slow coolant disappearance and possible sweet smell out of the exhaust;
Normally leak is very small and a lot of people had to use gas analyzer to detect CO in the coolant to confirm the leak;

 

[progress4m]

I was unaware of the possible HG issues with '04 v6's until today... :doh: I had the white smoke after the hard cold startup as reported, coolant was low when I had it in the shop in September, and I always hear gurgling from under the dash - thought it was just coolant going through the heater core. Looks like I'm smelling the coolant after work today too. Also had it through VSC/TRAC engine lights on a couple months back but it went away (done this two times since 2013) so I'm not sure what codes cut.

My wife has been driving the truck since we bought it in '11 with 105k miles on it so I never noticed anything cause I rarely drove it.

Replacing the wheel bearings and SB/EL bushings this weekend, thankful that I own the truck so we aren't double dipping each month paying for this thing :doh:
Oh the joys of owning a used vehicle...

Sorry for the bad news… but until you eliminate other possible issues (like a bad battery) I would not think the worse…. hopefully it is not HG in your case!

On the side note and just FYI, Toyota definitely scrude up with 4.0 design… as all HG failures are in identical spot and most of the time on very well maintained trucks….if I would have to guess, it is related to insufficient cooling passages around cylinder head: 4 and 6 cylinder…. I wish they would stand up and owned it, just like they always did in the past.

 

[fishtizzy]

With 4.0 L V6 HG failure you would normally get rough cold start because of misfiring on cylinder # 6 or #4 (code P0306 and \or P0304), slow coolant disappearance and possible sweet smell out of the exhaust;
Normally leak is very small and a lot of people had to use gas analyzer to detect CO in the coolant to confirm the leak;

I am definitely losing coolant very slowly. It was topped off in end of September and the overflow reservoir is just about empty now. The only time it felt and sounded like it misfired was that one morning, followed by stinky white exhausted for a couple seconds. But again no check engine or engine codes. Should I schedule a time to get exhaust gas analyzed?

Sorry for the bad news… but until you eliminate other possible issues (like a bad battery) I would not think the worse…. hopefully it is not HG in your case!

On the side note and just FYI, Toyota definitely scrude up with 4.0 design… as all HG failures are in identical spot and most of the time on very well maintained trucks….if I would have to guess, it is related to insufficient cooling passages around cylinder head: 4 and 6 cylinder…. I wish they would stand up and owned it, just like they always did in the past.

Had the battery checked tonight, it barely passed the load test, hovering around 11-12v. Rather than run the risk of more issues and getting stranded in the middle of winter, I replaced it with a middle of the pack Duralast Gold battery. It was going on 5 years old anyway. Was considering doing compression test this weekend, anyone have advice or a good diy thread I could use?

I am pretty disappointed in myself for not thoroughly checking this out before buying it used in '11. I bought this truck for my wife with the understanding that it would last us a very long time, knowing that the risk for large costly failure was somewhat mitigated by buying a Toyota 4runner. Cars are never a good investment and they are very unpredictable, but sometimes the risk can be minimized with a smart purchase. I still feel like we made the right decision, just maybe should have bought newer or opted for the v8 On the bright side, even if I do have to fork over the cash to fix it, it's still worth more than the repair will cost and will last is another +40k miles I'm sure.

 

[fishtizzy]

Taking it to the dealership Friday to check cooling system for leaks. My wife hit something in august driving from CO to OH and there is trauma to the condenser and radiator - possibly tire debris - AC still blows ice cold. I had a different dealership check it in September and they said it was good - I am now not convinced they checked they system thoroughly. I will also have them check water pump and pressure test the cooling system (leak down test?). If that all checks out will move on to compression testing.

Fingers crossed I am only replacing a radiator or a water pump and not a HG...:boom:

 

[fishtizzy]

Leaking radiator, $770 to fix it. I've declined and will replace on my own. Anyone recommend OEM or after market radiator over the other? I will replace upper and lower hoses as well, any other weird things I should know replacing it on my own? Fluid preferences?
Thanks!!

 

[fullboogie]

How's that going to change your cold start problem? I think they are not related, and you have another issue too.

Leaking radiator, $770 to fix it. I've declined and will replace on my own. Anyone recommend OEM or after market radiator over the other? I will replace upper and lower hoses as well, any other weird things I should know replacing it on my own? Fluid preferences?
Thanks!!

 

[telum01]

How's that going to change your cold start problem? I think they are not related, and you have another issue too.

Agreed. Leaking radiator can explain why you're losing coolant, but it doesn't affect your engine during cold starts. And you can also be losing coolant through a bad head gasket.

As for radiator - if an OEM one isn't prohibitively expensive, go that route. The first one lasted 10 years and 160k miles, so getting another should give you the same.

 

[fishtizzy]

The only two times it had rough starts the truck was previously driven two short distance trips and never had time to warm up. Explained this to the tech and he agreed could have been condensation, especially because no engine codes were thrown and exhaust smell was putrid not sweet smelling. Haven't had any other symptoms/problems since replacing battery.

 

[fishtizzy]

How's that going to change your cold start problem? I think they are not related, and you have another issue too.

Agreed. Leaking radiator can explain why you're losing coolant, but it doesn't affect your engine during cold starts. And you can also be losing coolant through a bad head gasket.

As for radiator - if an OEM one isn't prohibitively expensive, go that route. The first one lasted 10 years and 160k miles, so getting another should give you the same.

I agree with both of you - a lot of parallel issues, maybe unrelated. Will keep an eye on it for further starting issues. Thanks to this forum I know which things to test next if issues return.

 

[Greydog]

Radiator is an easy job, no prob doing that yourself. OEM are Denso. Try to find one of those aftermarket or get an OE, the other aftermarket ones are fairly crappy.

 

[fishtizzy]

I'm replacing upper and lower hoses, as well as radiator cap. Any recommendations on thermostats or should I bother? Picked up OEM pink coolant as well.

 

[Veritas]

Haven't noticed the rear wiper moving on startup indicating battery issues.

Thoughts?

I am going through the same thing and have a similar topic on here.

This will sound like a stupid question, but did your rear windshield wiper start working again?

 

[fishtizzy]

I am going through the same thing and have a similar topic on here.

This will sound like a stupid question, but did your rear windshield wiper start working again?

I never had the swipe. My battery was right on the edge of going bad and with sub zero temps in our forecast coming soon, I just replaced it. My buddy just had the rear wiper swipe and the next day battery was dead.

 

[Veritas]

I never had the swipe. My battery was right on the edge of going bad and with sub zero temps in our forecast coming soon, I just replaced it. My buddy just had the rear wiper swipe and the next day battery was dead.

So are you saying the rear wiper was not working and then you swaped the battery for a brand new one and that fixed the rear windshield wiper blade and made it start working again?

 

[fishtizzy]

So are you saying the rear wiper was not working and then you swaped the battery for a brand new one and that fixed the rear windshield wiper blade and made it start working again?

Ah sorry, misunderstanding here. When the battery gets low and about to die some 4th gen owners have observed the rear wiper swiping once on startup all on its own. Not really sure about it not working for you at all. Maybe check fuse and corresponding relays? Again sorry for confusion.