UBJ boot break IMMEDIATELY after lift. My fault or shops fault?
- Thread starter 4BUMR
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4Reak Show
New member
Dude that boot was probably "damaged", or what I would consider dislodged, from the use of a pickle fork. Which is considered a proper tool for ball joint seperation. Now that being said, I've been a professional mechanic for 11 years and I don't own, nor will I ever own a pickle fork for that reason. What I use is both pullers and a hammer when possible since early on in my career I did see the denting issue with a hammer and that displeased me. With a puller engaged tightly onto the joint, you then tap the control arm area with like 50% power and that normally releases the joint without the big KA-POW if you just crank on the puller.
As a side note, that "damage" to the arm is 100% cosmetic. And since this was in conjunction with a lift installation, I would assume this truck should see some off-roading at some point, and guess what?? Off roading might --GASP-- put some scratches on your undercarriage or suspension!! So if you want a show truck with a lift, by all means be concerned about the dents. But if it's being built with purpose, you should probably get used to some cosmetic dings all over.
Unless you're the kind of guy with a bottle of touch up paint right after you air back up or whatever hahaha.
As a side note, that "damage" to the arm is 100% cosmetic. And since this was in conjunction with a lift installation, I would assume this truck should see some off-roading at some point, and guess what?? Off roading might --GASP-- put some scratches on your undercarriage or suspension!! So if you want a show truck with a lift, by all means be concerned about the dents. But if it's being built with purpose, you should probably get used to some cosmetic dings all over.
Unless you're the kind of guy with a bottle of touch up paint right after you air back up or whatever hahaha.
4Reak Show
New member
We've had our differences man and I understand your severe disdain for a professional shop, but when you do this stuff day in and day out, you just need to get the job done sometimes. I agree the visible damage is quite a bit excessive but that shows me they were really trying to break it free. Probably frozen in pretty good.
By your logic, if I do a clutch job and the engine and trans are sort of frozen together and I use a screw driver or pry bar to assist in seperation, and the bell housing gets a divit, we then should replace the transmission? I don't know man. That's a bit far fetched.
These are machines. I'm guilty of having a human-like love affair with mine, but at the end of the day it's all just metal plastic and glass. Inform the customer? Sure. But to hold a grudge or whatever isn't right in my opinion. Being in the trenches I'm here to do what most people either can't or don't want to. If you don't want to get your hands dirty and install your own lift, then you need to just deal with someone else doing what they feel needs to be done.
And for the record, I've seen hundreds of shotty repairs that blow this out of the water. Wiring is a really bad one on a lot of hacky jobs. So I guess this is just all relative and I consider it minor in the grand scheme.
mtbtim
Elite Member
im genuinely curious you would use a puller to release this ball joint?
to clarify, this is not my picture, and my question is specifically in reference to the LOWER. however, understand, you cant use a puller on the upper, until the lower is broke free, or you will damage it.
I have a kit of different style pullers. I have a puller that would probably fit on that bottom balljoint. So, I'd put a puller on the lower joint and then another puller on the upper joint and only back off each nut a little bit. I'd then start applying some force to each one. I might continue to apply force to break them each free or I might use the puller/hammer assist that [MENTION=127339]4Reak Show[/MENTION] just taught me.
mtbtim
Elite Member
I do understand where you're coming from. There are good mechanics, OK mechanics and there are bad mechanics. What I've learned is there's many ways to get a job done, some ways better than others. My point is if there is a clean way to get it done without damaging anything, why not use that method especially when you're charging your customers anywhere from $100-$150 per hour? I bought a puller set made by OTC for around $100 and it's worked flawlessly every time.
I don't have a disdain for professional shops or their mechanics. I have a disdain for shitty work. I have a disdain for overcharging customers. I have a disdain for dishonest shops charging for unnecessary repairs.
In your example of trying to pry apart a trans from an engine and the bellhousing gets marred up, that's acceptable because how else are you going to get them separated without doing a little prying if they're frozen together? I have no doubt the OP's UCA didn't require damage to get the balljoint separated. They chose the BFH instead of a puller and the UCA suffered because of it.
So Dude, if you're a good honest mechanic, i have no problems with you. I have a problem with dishonest crappy mechanics and shops.
On Sean's rig, I've now found 3 different things that were stripped. Could have been by the previous owner but it could have been done by a paid mechanic. It's seriously frustrating fixing other people's screw-ups. Recently, the pulley bolt hole for the idler pulley that the timing belt tensioner pushes against was stripped on Sean's rig. I had to drill it out and put a heli coil in there and luckily it worked. Stripping things in most instances is preventable. Being in a rush and using your impact ratchet to tighten fasteners without making sure the bolt or nut is threading on right is probably a good part of it.
My goal with our YouTube channel is to empower as many people as possible to keep their rigs out of shops so they save money, and they learn something. I'm learning new stuff all the time. I learned a lot doing the timing belt job on Sean's rig. We actually have to finish the job this Sunday because we ran out of time due to all the problems we had to overcome.
People might find a good shop, and then again, they might find a bad one. If you do your own work, you can only blame yourself if you screw something up.
nevada
Senior Member
how long would that take you?
you cant pull the lower part of the knuckle down to release it. all that will do is pull the socket off the stud. you have to press directly DOWN onto the stud to release it.
can you share the puller you have? I have a hard time believing there is a puller(pusher in this case) that can fit inside there to release that lower ball joint.
mtbtim
Elite Member
Here's a link to the puller kit I own.
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-6295-Fro...qid=1507836557&sr=8-2&keywords=otc+puller+set
Look at the puller on the far right of the picture. You could slip that in with the forked end under the knuckle and the single arm meeting up with the stud of the balljoint. When you tighten the leverage bolt, it applies pressure downward on the single arm and you break free the connection.
nevada
Senior Member
thanks.
nice kit.
OTC usually make good stuff. though, I would be concerned with the strength. I have encountered some very stuck ball joints. especially on trucks like I posted above.
I still contend that hammer would be faster than setting both pullers up.
mtbtim
Elite Member
We all have our personal experiences and preferences. I've had very good luck with pullers so I'll continue to use them. I've seen first hand what the hammer method has done to [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] UCA and the OP's UCA and I'd rather break the connection clean without mashing up suspension components. [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] UCA is actually much worse than the OP's.
If whatever you're breaking free isn't really stuck, the hammer method is quicker but we're literally talking at most a couple minutes quicker. If you have to keep on swinging that Big F'ing Hammer multiple times and maybe have a missed strike and hit something unintended, the BFH technique might do more damage than good.
I'm impressed with that OTC kit, so for anyone reading this, it's a smart buy if you plan on doing a bunch of front end work.
octanejunkie
Elite Member
I used a pitman arm puller from autozone for free to separate both the LBJ and OTRE
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
You'll have hard time proving it's their fault. Being it's not a brand new UBJ, what can you do really ?
Some mechanics' method for removing BJ's, as mentioned, is whaling on the thing with a mallet so hard, it would make you go crazy, there are so many better methods, yet they keep doing it, especially on trucks.
Even if you prove they used that method, they'll tell you they use it all the time, and other BJ's don't leak, unless they're about to go bad, which is BS really, but you won't be able to fight it.
Some mechanics' method for removing BJ's, as mentioned, is whaling on the thing with a mallet so hard, it would make you go crazy, there are so many better methods, yet they keep doing it, especially on trucks.
Even if you prove they used that method, they'll tell you they use it all the time, and other BJ's don't leak, unless they're about to go bad, which is BS really, but you won't be able to fight it.
That's because a lot of mechanics are know it all primadonas, who refuse to learn new tricks. If you teach them that - that means you know something they don't - AND THAT'S A BIG DEAL.
The real good mechanics end up working and making a lot of $$$ in custom shops, or running their own thing, the donkey-stubborn ones who refuse to learn new and better ways of doing things - are all over the place, unfortunately.
You've gotta admit it is pretty satisfying to use one on a joint that's getting replaced anyhow.
2ndhandyotaman
Member
My opinion is: this is when it's ok to use a pickle fork. The point of the job right then is to just get the pile of crap taken apart, so that nice new shiny pieces can go back in there. After dealing with sooo many absolute shoddy repairs done to this '01 4runner that I just got, I'll never take it to a shop to have anything done outside of an alignment.
