V8 swap

[4RunnerChaos]

When I was mocking up my 5.7 to put in my 3RD gen the problem I was running into was clearance in order for it to fit the 5.7 and the Trans. Required fire wall modifications and Trans Tunnel modifications after that the engine would fit but the next problem was the Radiator there was much room for the engine pulleys to clear so it was just to much for the wallet to handle.

5.7 iforce or 5.7 small block?

 

[RockenAlex]

A friend and I were planning out a 1st gen Toyota 5.7 supercharged swap. His dads 2009 supercharged tundra got totaled by a big rig but our plans were squashed by the check from the insurance company he couldn't refuse.
We had the size and spacing figured out, if I remember correctly we were going to move the axle forward an inch or so and cut some of the back of the wheel tub out and move the engine back about 4 inches into the firewall. That was about as far as we got. I think there would be some general wheel tub bashing and a nice cowl hood too.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

5.7 iforce or 5.7 small block?

iForce 5.7 Toyota V8

 

[BlackCat914]

5.7 iforce or 5.7 small block?

I'd assume a pushrod 5.7. A DOHC 5.7 would probably be a handful to get in a 4Runner. And an LS1 is actually 346ci, not 345ci as previously stated, but no biggie. An LS2 would be cool, not much bigger at 364ci, problem is you'd run into problems with differentials and transfer cases that can support mid 300's as far as RWHP goes.

 

[02SE]

why put a chevy motor in a toyota ? I never understood this, Why not just sell the toyota and buy a chevy ? :noidea:

The biggest reason for me is packaging and aftermarket support. The GM LS engines are fairly compact dimensionally, so they will fit into an engine bay easier than say the Toyota 5.7, which is a physically large engine. Then you have far more performance parts available for the LS engines, so you can make them into whatever your heart desires.

The only thing that has prevented me from doing something like this, is time, and the fact that I'd rather make other vehicles that are a better platform for speed, go fast.

 

[96 ToyRunner]

Im still new to all this stuff so please don't get on my but do you want more power to tow big heavy stuff or just to have more power if its power I would just wait and look for a super charger for it to keep it Toyota but if for towing I don't know but this is nice to read and to know haha

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Personally Do it to just do it plus I acquired the truck for cheap so u live and learn.

 

[4RunnerChaos]

Superhargers are inefficient. Which is why I haven't considered one.
The whole v8 thing is just a question for people out there who want to know.

The LS engines are great engines. I just don't see what's wrong with mating GM parts with Toyota parts.
There is no one company that can make everything perfect.
Toyota has an AMAZING body, they don't rust don't LOOK old as crap.
Downside is poor underside rust protection. Frames rust out. But I can't think of a manufacturer off hand that doesn't rust to all crap.
Toyota engines are not very powerful and are not efficient for their size.
GM, great engines and drivetrain, my mom has had 9 different GM products in the past 10 years and not had one give any problems. And her husband drive 100k+ miles a year. We had 3 of them up to 250xxx miles before selling them. And not to mention cheaper to work on.
I would like to say something good on fords but other than ecoboost. I'm not impressed.
Dodge... Cummins? Nah inline 6 diesel.
Inline is good for torque and so is diesel. So why both? V6 diesel probably would be more efficient (but who knows I don't make millions designing engines)
VW/Audi/Porsche probably my favorite. And the manufacturers I'd source any swap parts from. Their Diesel engines are more efficient and more powerful than American Diesel engines. Quieter and smoother. Just all around better.. I mean if vw made a pickup truck they would most definitely be on the map in the "coal roller" crowd.
WAY more engine choices sizes and options.
Vw toureg pickup with the V10 tdi from 2008 that put out over 400bhp and 700 ft lbs torque... This was 6 years ago? 5 years before GM and chrysler group introduced those numbers on their engines..
But sadly VW stopped using those engines in favor of the 4.0 and 4.2L tdi options that were and still are available, making over 350bhp and 550ft lbs of torque.
Or if your feeling fancy and economical, the v6 tdi option that's out there with output numbers identical to the "dinosaur" pushrod 350s but gets nearly three times better fuel consumption.

 

[BlackCat914]

Superhargers are inefficient. Which is why I haven't considered one.
The whole v8 thing is just a question for people out there who want to know.

The LS engines are great engines. I just don't see what's wrong with mating GM parts with Toyota parts.
There is no one company that can make everything perfect.
Toyota has an AMAZING body, they don't rust don't LOOK old as crap.
Downside is poor underside rust protection. Frames rust out. But I can't think of a manufacturer off hand that doesn't rust to all crap.
Toyota engines are not very powerful and are not efficient for their size.
GM, great engines and drivetrain, my mom has had 9 different GM products in the past 10 years and not had one give any problems. And her husband drive 100k+ miles a year. We had 3 of them up to 250xxx miles before selling them. And not to mention cheaper to work on.
I would like to say something good on fords but other than ecoboost. I'm not impressed.
Dodge... Cummins? Nah inline 6 diesel.
Inline is good for torque and so is diesel. So why both? V6 diesel probably would be more efficient (but who knows I don't make millions designing engines)
VW/Audi/Porsche probably my favorite. And the manufacturers I'd source any swap parts from. Their Diesel engines are more efficient and more powerful than American Diesel engines. Quieter and smoother. Just all around better.. I mean if vw made a pickup truck they would most definitely be on the map in the "coal roller" crowd.
WAY more engine choices sizes and options.
Vw toureg pickup with the V10 tdi from 2008 that put out over 400bhp and 700 ft lbs torque... This was 6 years ago? 5 years before GM and chrysler group introduced those numbers on their engines..
But sadly VW stopped using those engines in favor of the 4.0 and 4.2L tdi options that were and still are available, making over 350bhp and 550ft lbs of torque.
Or if your feeling fancy and economical, the v6 tdi option that's out there with output numbers identical to the "dinosaur" pushrod 350s but gets nearly three times better fuel consumption.

Superchargers are inefficient? Compared to what? A unicorn eating Funyuns? You drop the word inefficient like 5 times. What exactly do you think is inefficient? How is a larger displacement gas engine more efficient than say a turbo or supercharger add on?

 

[4RunnerChaos]

Superchargers are inefficient? Compared to what? A unicorn eating Funyuns? You drop the word inefficient like 5 times. What exactly do you think is inefficient? How is a larger displacement gas engine more efficient than say a turbo or supercharger add on?

Supercharger vs turbocharger. Turbocharger is more efficient.

Diesels are more efficient than gasoline

Newer LS engines are more efficient than old pushrods

Twin turbo is more efficient than single turbo.

A 75% efficiency from a supercharger as opposed to a 96+ percent efficiency from a turbocharger, in theory, a 3.4 supercharged and a 3.0 single turbo if they both have the same tech in them. Same boost pressure etc. just speaking hypothetically.
It's just more efficient to used expended gasses than it is to put a strain on an engine to receive the same power.

 

[T4R2014]

I'd assume a pushrod 5.7. A DOHC 5.7 would probably be a handful to get in a 4Runner. And an LS1 is actually 346ci, not 345ci as previously stated, but no biggie. An LS2 would be cool, not much bigger at 364ci, problem is you'd run into problems with differentials and transfer cases that can support mid 300's as far as RWHP goes.

Looks like I forgot how to round. I thought 345.7 but it came out as 345. :frusty:

 

[T4R2014]

Superhargers are inefficient. Which is why I haven't considered one.
The whole v8 thing is just a question for people out there who want to know.

The LS engines are great engines. I just don't see what's wrong with mating GM parts with Toyota parts.
There is no one company that can make everything perfect.
Toyota has an AMAZING body, they don't rust don't LOOK old as crap.
Downside is poor underside rust protection. Frames rust out. But I can't think of a manufacturer off hand that doesn't rust to all crap.
Toyota engines are not very powerful and are not efficient for their size.
GM, great engines and drivetrain, my mom has had 9 different GM products in the past 10 years and not had one give any problems. And her husband drive 100k+ miles a year. We had 3 of them up to 250xxx miles before selling them. And not to mention cheaper to work on.
I would like to say something good on fords but other than ecoboost. I'm not impressed.
Dodge... Cummins? Nah inline 6 diesel.
Inline is good for torque and so is diesel. So why both? V6 diesel probably would be more efficient (but who knows I don't make millions designing engines)
VW/Audi/Porsche probably my favorite. And the manufacturers I'd source any swap parts from. Their Diesel engines are more efficient and more powerful than American Diesel engines. Quieter and smoother. Just all around better.. I mean if vw made a pickup truck they would most definitely be on the map in the "coal roller" crowd.
WAY more engine choices sizes and options.
Vw toureg pickup with the V10 tdi from 2008 that put out over 400bhp and 700 ft lbs torque... This was 6 years ago? 5 years before GM and chrysler group introduced those numbers on their engines..
But sadly VW stopped using those engines in favor of the 4.0 and 4.2L tdi options that were and still are available, making over 350bhp and 550ft lbs of torque.
Or if your feeling fancy and economical, the v6 tdi option that's out there with output numbers identical to the "dinosaur" pushrod 350s but gets nearly three times better fuel consumption.

Nothing tops the supercharger for ease and power for overall cost. You would be surprised at the efficiency that Toyota engines had for their era. They had less displacement than many but made more power per liter. Everyone has stories about how their bestfriend's cousin's stepmom's father had three Beretta's and five Cavalier's that reached 250k with only oil changes. Regarding Ford, have you forgotten about the 4.6 that powered America's taxi's and limo's for nearly two decades? The 5.4 was no slouch either.

The VW diesel's are very nice but are very pricey to maintain and likely a pain to figure out how to swap. BTW, the V10 came out at the Toureg's launch. I'm not sure where you got that 700 tq figure because that V10 developed about 550 tq. VW didn't stop using them, it was "stricter" US emissions that killed it off(What a surprise...). Sales figures weren't huge either. The newer and smaller V8 TDI's make better power AND MPG figures than the older V10.

You may want the revise your efficiency standards, IMO.

 

[Ed_C]

Nothing tops the supercharger for ease and power for overall cost. You would be surprised at the efficiency that Toyota engines had for their era. They had less displacement than many but made more power per liter. Everyone has stories about how their bestfriend's cousin's stepmom's father had three Beretta's and five Cavalier's that reached 250k with only oil changes. Regarding Ford, have you forgotten about the 4.6 that powered America's taxi's and limo's for nearly two decades? The 5.4 was no slouch either.

The VW diesel's are very nice but are very pricey to maintain and likely a pain to figure out how to swap. BTW, the V10 came out at the Toureg's launch. I'm not sure where you got that 700 tq figure because that V10 developed about 550 tq. VW didn't stop using them, it was "stricter" US emissions that killed it off(What a surprise...). Sales figures weren't huge either. The newer and smaller V8 TDI's make better power AND MPG figures than the older V10.

You may want the revise your efficiency standards, IMO.

Agreed. All this OP's talk about engine design and efficiency and he confuses headers with cylinder heads :ybrick:

 

[AZ4Running]

Fwiw turbochargers are more efficient at making power than a supercharger. A superchager is driven off the engine which requires tq to turn tq taken from the engine. I think it was like 30% of the engines power at the wheels is taken to drive the supercharger. So if you are making 100whp 30whp is being taken by the supercharger. A turbo is "free" power being that it uses the engery in the hot expanding exhaust gases to drive it or build boost pressure. So nit stealing power from the engine alone always a turbo to make more power at the same boost as a super charger. Turbos are also typically intercooled which increases power by increasing efficiency from cooling the air charge. Superchargers like the trd are not intercooled and basically are blowing hot air into the motor. All that said i would go with the trd supercharger on a 3.4l toyota.

 

[BlackCat914]

Supercharger vs turbocharger. Turbocharger is more efficient.

Diesels are more efficient than gasoline

Newer LS engines are more efficient than old pushrods

Twin turbo is more efficient than single turbo.

A 75% efficiency from a supercharger as opposed to a 96+ percent efficiency from a turbocharger, in theory, a 3.4 supercharged and a 3.0 single turbo if they both have the same tech in them. Same boost pressure etc. just speaking hypothetically.
It's just more efficient to used expended gasses than it is to put a strain on an engine to receive the same power.

I know how they both work. My point being is you're talking about swapping a different and/or larger engine which would require countless man hours of fabrication and installation, when you could bolt on a supercharger specifically designed for our motors and get roughly the same results for 1/4 the cost and installation time. It sounded like you were against it because of the parasitic draw required to spin it would somehow negate the horsepower increase the end result yielded. It takes power to make power, and that's no secret.

What are your horsepower goals? After you figure out an engine choice, you'll then need to figure out a trans to handle it, a rear diff to handle it, a transfer case to handle it, a drive shaft to handle it, and a front diff to handle it. Then You need to figure out engine management, cooling, etc. I mean it's a cool idea to throw a non toyota V8 in a 3rd gen, but there's so many other options that would be way better bang for your buck while sticking with the original 3.4 platform.

 

[BlackCat914]

Looks like I forgot how to round. I thought 345.7 but it came out as 345. :frusty:

Lol, no worries man, I was nitpicking anyways.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Nothing tops the supercharger for ease and power for overall cost. You would be surprised at the efficiency that Toyota engines had for their era. They had less displacement than many but made more power per liter. Everyone has stories about how their bestfriend's cousin's stepmom's father had three Beretta's and five Cavalier's that reached 250k with only oil changes. Regarding Ford, have you forgotten about the 4.6 that powered America's taxi's and limo's for nearly two decades? The 5.4 was no slouch either.

The VW diesel's are very nice but are very pricey to maintain and likely a pain to figure out how to swap. BTW, the V10 came out at the Toureg's launch. I'm not sure where you got that 700 tq figure because that V10 developed about 550 tq. VW didn't stop using them, it was "stricter" US emissions that killed it off(What a surprise...). Sales figures weren't huge either. The newer and smaller V8 TDI's make better power AND MPG figures than the older V10.

You may want the revise your efficiency standards, IMO.

I'm not a fan of VAG anything. Never known a car line that was a bigger POS in my opinion. Find a 2000 VW Jetta, you find a car with one foot on a banana peal and one foot in the grave.

And superchargers may not be more efficient when talking horsepower, but when properly geared they are better for trucks than a turbo because they can make power immediately. Turbo lag still exists. Although not as bad as it once was, turbos do require spooling.

I look at a porsche and say WOW, then I remember what they are actually like to own and drive. I'll take my old crap.

:infidel:

 

[4RunnerChaos]

Nothing tops the supercharger for ease and power for overall cost. You would be surprised at the efficiency that Toyota engines had for their era. They had less displacement than many but made more power per liter. Everyone has stories about how their bestfriend's cousin's stepmom's father had three Beretta's and five Cavalier's that reached 250k with only oil changes..

Did I mention the part where these were all cars I've been in and lived with?
Three different corvettes an old 85 chevy cavalier (driven during my step dads divorce with is previous wife) which was passed to my older brother at 250k who then drove it to 275k then he sold it to another guy who managed to lose control and park it in someone's front yard. My mom upgraded to a chevy Malibu which was driver to 150k miles while owning a chevy Tahoe which was driven considerably less due to fuel economy. These were both eventually traded in for a chevy avalanche and chevy impala both driven to over 160k miles the impala was tolaled and they got another one with similar miles and put it to around 215k miles before selling it.
I neglected to mention ford because I personally have not had any firsthand experience with them. Just Chevys and toyotas..
The only dodge/Chrysler I had experience with is a 2013 Chrysler 300S which developed alignment problems within 10k miles..

And where did I say toyotas weren't efficient..? Lol...
They are very good engines. I just don't like supercharging. If it were the more efficient and cheaper way to do things wouldn't you think car manufacturers would have been moving into it instead of away from it? Don't get me wrong superchargers do have their place. But that place isn't everywhere.
And my bad on the tdi numbers I looked back at them and forgot to fix them on the thread. I was way off lol. And as for efficiency numbers, just using numbers I've seen over the Internet, if you know more accurate numbers please feel free to let me know.

And Ed_C yeah I made that mistake and learned from it. Your post isn't a constructive one. And in the aspect I was looking at it it could also work.
Less air in, less fuel burned, also needs more back pressure. Think about reversing performance adders. More power more fuel pess power less fuel.

 

[T4R2014]

Did I mention the part where these were all cars I've been in and lived with?
Three different corvettes an old 85 chevy cavalier (driven during my step dads divorce with is previous wife) which was passed to my older brother at 250k who then drove it to 275k then he sold it to another guy who managed to lose control and park it in someone's front yard. My mom upgraded to a chevy Malibu which was driver to 150k miles while owning a chevy Tahoe which was driven considerably less due to fuel economy. These were both eventually traded in for a chevy avalanche and chevy impala both driven to over 160k miles the impala was tolaled and they got another one with similar miles and put it to around 215k miles before selling it.
I neglected to mention ford because I personally have not had any firsthand experience with them. Just Chevys and toyotas..
The only dodge/Chrysler I had experience with is a 2013 Chrysler 300S which developed alignment problems within 10k miles..

And where did I say toyotas weren't efficient..? Lol...
They are very good engines. I just don't like supercharging. If it were the more efficient and cheaper way to do things wouldn't you think car manufacturers would have been moving into it instead of away from it? Don't get me wrong superchargers do have their place. But that place isn't everywhere.

And Ed_C yeah I made that mistake and learned from it. Your post isn't a constructive one. And in the aspect I was looking at it it could also work.
Less air in, less fuel burned, also needs more back pressure. Think about reversing performance adders. More power more fuel pess power less fuel.

Toyota engines are not very powerful and are not efficient for their size.

Space in the engine bay is an issue with 3rd Gen's. Most turbo setups's I see have very cramped engine bays. This is where the 3RZ gets its advantage with turbocharging. Also, it is likely to cost way more to turbo a 5VZ than it is to throw on the TRD blower.

 

[T4R2014]

I'm not a fan of VAG anything. Never known a car line that was a bigger POS in my opinion. Find a 2000 VW Jetta, you find a car with one foot on a banana peal and one foot in the grave.

And superchargers may not be more efficient when talking horsepower, but when properly geared they are better for trucks than a turbo because they can make power immediately. Turbo lag still exists. Although not as bad as it once was, turbos do require spooling.

I look at a porsche and say WOW, then I remember what they are actually like to own and drive. I'll take my old crap.

:infidel:

The Golf GTI and Golf TDI's are great cars. They do have their occasional issues. It would still be my top pick for a small car. Their American-Market Jetta's and Passat's are utterly terrible with blandness that rivals Camry's and Corolla's.

You kind of have to spend money to have a Porsche, simple as that. Parts and labor will be expensive but you should expect that before getting one. It's like buying a 4Runner or Land Cruiser and complaining about gas mileage. It's hard to find something that substitutes a 993.

Ditto on the immediate power from a supercharger. Some turbo systems have minimal lag though.