Valve lash again

[KidVermicious]

I'm still chasing what I think is some valve noise, this truck is the first I've ever tried to set the valve lash on and I'm not sure I'm getting it right. I'm setting both sides at .010 hot, which I verified with Compcams is correct for this cam.

If you were chasing valve train noise (it's chuckling, is the best I can describe it), would you lean towards slightly tighter or slightly looser than where you started?

VIDEO0050_zpscd9674f5.mp4 Video by kidvermicious | Photobucket

(Ignore the whine and the fan roar, those are separate issues.)

 

[Quatre Coureur]

Sounds like timing chain slap. My 85 makes the same damn noise. The flippin plastic chain guide mount broke. Makes the sound on deceleration. Fwiw

 

[KidVermicious]

Sounds like timing chain slap. My 85 makes the same damn noise. The flippin plastic chain guide mount broke. Makes the sound on deceleration. Fwiw

That's exactly what I first thought, too. My guides are intact, though, at least all of it can see. I thought I'd try the valves again before I drop the pan and look for bits.

 

[SV_Dude]

I agree with the above. That doesn't sound like valves. How old is the timing chain kit in the engine? You may want to look at replacing it or at least the tensioner.

 

[SV_Dude]

That's exactly what I first thought, too. My guides are intact, though, at least all of it can see. I thought I'd try the valves again before I drop the pan and look for bits.

Worn guides don't exactly make the slapping sound. You can have a weak tensioner. How is your oil pressure? The tensioner runs off of your oil pressure. If you have good oil pressure then you may want to look into replacing your tensioner in the near future. BUT, if you're going to replace the tensioner you might as well replace the whole chain and guides (engnbldr.com).

 

[KidVermicious]

Oil pressure is a touch low at idle but comes up with any kind of throttle.

 

[KidVermicious]

Ok, so it started doing this about a month ago. If it's chain slap, how much longer do I have before it toasts my timing chain cover. Months or weeks?

 

[SV_Dude]

Oil pressure is a touch low at idle but comes up with any kind of throttle.

That's normal. My first guess is chain tensioner but it's to do a good diagnosis on the interwebs.

 

[Quatre Coureur]

My oil pressure has always seemed low. I didn't know the two were connected. Just ordered t-chain set w/steel guides, cover, oil pump, waterpump, and full gasket set from engnbldr for $257.20. +free shipping!

 

[KidVermicious]

New noises!

Sounds like timing chain slap. My 85 makes the same damn noise. The flippin plastic chain guide mount broke. Makes the sound on deceleration. Fwiw

Does yours rattle when you're in a gear too high, like when you're accelerating at low RPM? That's what mine just started doing.

I did the valves twice more, trying to go a little bit tighter or looser, and it's made no real difference. I'm almost sure it's the chain or tensioner at this point. It's going to be at least a couple weeks until I can take it down and fix it, so I hope it holds together because I don't wanna buy a timing chain cover too .

 

[SV_Dude]

I would dig not it as soon as possible. The last thing you want to do is introduce your pistons to your valves, then you are into that engine for a lot more than a timing chain kit.

 

[Tanner]

When I first picked up my 4Runner last year, there was a noticeable chain slapping sound soon after I purchased it. I ordered a complete timing chain kit from engbldr; was less than $300.

Finally got it all installed back in September, along with a valve adjustment. Runs great now. Still has the typical (or seems to be), ticking sound. From reading all the countless posts on the web about ticking noises; it seems to be normal with the 22RE so I am slowly trying to forget about it lol.

However, before I got all the timing parts replaced, I would get a very noticeable slapping sound when I first started my truck up. Turns out the crapstic chain guide was broken; it has now been replaced with the metal backed guide that comes with the engbldr kit. The tensioner was also quite worn; still have to measure the old one to see if it was even within spec (doubt it though).

I also replaced the oil pump while I was there. Before the new pump I didn't get an oil pressure reading (stock gauge) while at idle and hardly anything while driving. Now I get nearly a quarter of the gauge at idle and half the gauge while driving. So a new pump may be a good investment too.

Sorry for long post

 

[KidVermicious]

When I first picked up my 4Runner last year, there was a noticeable chain slapping sound soon after I purchased it. I ordered a complete timing chain kit from engbldr; was less than $300.

His Front End Kit (Timing kit, Timing Cover, Oil Pump, Water Pump) is $150, what did you order for $300?

 

[KidVermicious]

Front end is torn down. I have just removed two completely intact steel-backed guides and an OSK tensioner. No idea how many miles on them, but the guides are smooth and the tensioner is stiff, this stuff looks newish. There are wear marks on the inside of the timing cover, but they're old.

I'm going to drop the pan and see if maybe I'm oil starved from guide chunks left in from when it broke last, before the good stuff was thrown in, and then I'm going to button it back up and pray.

 

[KidVermicious]

No fragments in the oil pan. I did find that I've got some play where rods 2 and 4 connect to the crank - that can't be normal, can it?

 

[BoatRacer]

I think it's ok for the rod to move a little on the crank from side to side, but should not be loose or rock back and forth. In other words, you should not be able to make it rattle. I have a rattle in my '87 and I think it's the rod bearings. Either way, I hope you get it sorted out soon.

 

[Quatre Coureur]

So its not the T-chain? WTF!? I was just about to start tearing mine apart this weekend... sh!t... maybe I'll wait n see what u find out for sure. I only want to do this ONCE.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Bust out the plasti-gauge and get the FSM specs, you might have some knocking from worn out crankshaft bearings. If you're seeing brass or copper on the bearings it'll indicate some wear. You'll also want to measure the connecting rods and crankshaft pins for roundness... though at this point you're getting more into engine machining than backyard mechanic.

 

[KidVermicious]

I'm learning more than I wanted to know about crank and rod bearings! This is starting to become a theme here - a simple tuneup turned into replacing the head, a 1 hour job replacing the tie rod ends morphed into a complete front axle rebuild, now a simple valve lash procedure has become a bottom end rebuild.

At least it's not snowing any more. :bravo:

So its not the T-chain? WTF!? I was just about to start tearing mine apart this weekend... sh!t... maybe I'll wait n see what u find out for sure. I only want to do this ONCE.

I swapped a couple emails with Ted at engnbldr - his theory is worn bearings in the bottom caused low oil pressure, leading to a misbehaving chain tensioner and the chain slap we think I was hearing. Pull your timing chain cover and see what you see - if the guides are intact like mine, maybe you've got bearing troubles too? You'll be dropping the pan either way though, so no sense putting it off. If it is your bearings and you spin one, you're not gonna be happy.

Bust out the plasti-gauge and get the FSM specs, you might have some knocking from worn out crankshaft bearings. If you're seeing brass or copper on the bearings it'll indicate some wear. You'll also want to measure the connecting rods and crankshaft pins for roundness... though at this point you're getting more into engine machining than backyard mechanic.

Thanks for checking in, Blackworks, always nice to have a Toyota tech chime in. I'll get some plastigauge and have a look at the bearings in the morning - if the crank isn't visibly scarred up, should I leave it in the truck? Or should I plan on taking it into a shop on general principles?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I would say it depends mostly on the condition of the crank and the measurements you get. If its within tolerences you could just leave it in there, otherwise you may need to have it re-ground and balanced, but this also requires oversized bearings for the crank and connecting rods to make up that excessive clearance. It might be more cost effective to replace the crank with a new one at that point, I haven't looked at pricing for parts and labor so I couldn't tell you for sure.