KidVermicious
New member
Geez, $200 for a crank? Allrighty then. I'll have a look at the bearings in the morning and then figure out which way I'm gonna jump.
Valve lash again
- Thread starter KidVermicious
- Start date
I got my crank for my 22re on eBay for 150 shipped. But between the crank, bearings and seals you're not too far from 300 bucks.
If the plastiguage fails, I would pull the engine and tear it down completely. The difference between redoing the bearings on the crank and a full rebuild is only a couple hundred bucks. It's better to spend the money and have a new engine with 0 miles and 175+ psi in each cylinder. Ted sells his rebuild kits pretty cheap. Assuming your cylinder walls are good then you'll only have to have them honed for the new rings. If you replace the crank then you can more or less have a new engine for under 500 bucks.
If the plastiguage fails, I would pull the engine and tear it down completely. The difference between redoing the bearings on the crank and a full rebuild is only a couple hundred bucks. It's better to spend the money and have a new engine with 0 miles and 175+ psi in each cylinder. Ted sells his rebuild kits pretty cheap. Assuming your cylinder walls are good then you'll only have to have them honed for the new rings. If you replace the crank then you can more or less have a new engine for under 500 bucks.
KidVermicious
New member
I agree!
mikebontoft
New member
You're in that thing quite a bit man. sucks. Don't worry... I may be getting into mine sooner than I'd like as well. Valve ticking or something is getting worse.
so, is it lateral movement (side to side) or up and down? That would be a sound theory though.
How long of a drive is it from Taylorsville to wherever it is you live, anyway?
If you find any pitting or scratches in the crank, as long as you can't catch your fingernail in any of them, the journal surface doesn't need to be machined. That DOES NOT account for taper or out of round though.
buying cranks and cams off eBay makes me nervous. Seen a few where they didn't package it right and sent the snout through the side of the box. They can also warp sitting on their side, and who knows how the seller had it sitting. Always stand them up!
so, is it lateral movement (side to side) or up and down? That would be a sound theory though.
How long of a drive is it from Taylorsville to wherever it is you live, anyway?
If you find any pitting or scratches in the crank, as long as you can't catch your fingernail in any of them, the journal surface doesn't need to be machined. That DOES NOT account for taper or out of round though.
buying cranks and cams off eBay makes me nervous. Seen a few where they didn't package it right and sent the snout through the side of the box. They can also warp sitting on their side, and who knows how the seller had it sitting. Always stand them up!
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KidVermicious
New member
Stock head, or did you get the RV one?
Trailersville is close, maybe 15 minutes? I'm just on the other side of West Valley City from you, out the 201 freeway.
So the movement is parallel to the crank, not perpendicular - I think that's what the FSM is calling thrust clearance? I gauged the bearing on #2, which is the one I was rattling, and it came back at almost exactly .025mm. The FSM says .025 to .055 is good, and both the bearing surface and crank pin look shiny and smooth, no funny colors and no imperfections. Sorry for the humungoid pic, mebbe I'll resize it later.
I'm gonna check the other pins as long as I've got the pan off, but I'm not seeing any trouble so far.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Those bearings look pretty close to new, how did the bolts feel when loosening them? have you checked all the other bearings yet?
KidVermicious
New member
Not that I know what I'm looking at, but they look new to me too. The bolts were all plenty snug. All the rod bearings are gauging correctly so far, right between .025 and .05 - I'm struggling to get the cap off of number 4, I'll get it in the morning. Then I'm going to check the main bearings (can I gauge them the same way? I haven't found where the FSM says one way or another). If everything checks out, I'm going to button it up with the new oil pump, water pump, and timing stuff, and see what happens. If it's still making obnoxious sounds, I'm gonna pull the block and do a complete rebuild. If not, then yay.
eta - oh, and I gauged the thrust clearance on all four right at .2 mm. Spec is .3, so that's good too.
KidVermicious
New member
Wait, you're in New Jersey though. Why don't you come try one of my hills at about 5000 feet above sea level and then tell me those stock gears spin the 33s just fine.
BlackWorksInc
New member
You can use a feeler gauge to measure the thrust bearing clearance, the plastigauge is for the bearing to crankshaft pin clearance. I would recommend when measuring the thrust bearing clearance to reinstall the crankshaft and gently lever the crank shaft back and forth (from front to back) then torque the caps down and measure your thrust clearance.
KidVermicious
New member
I wasn't planning on pulling the crank with the motor in the truck, I was just going to pop the bearings one by one and make sure the half that I can see is good. I figure if the bottom bearings are as pristine as the rod bearings and the crank itself isn't chewed up, then the top bearings can be assumed good as well.
And if I have to pull the crank and get it machined, I'm just gonna yank the entire motor out and do it on the stand.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Oh okay then, just feeler the thrust bearings and hopefully that will give you a good idea what to do.
Don't completely rule out a weak chain tensioner. Just because it feels strong doesn't mean that it is good. Yes, your guides are in good shape but they may take a while to show wear.
If all of your bearings are in good shape and your crank shaft has the allowable forward and aft play, I would pull your timing chain and measure it. You may have a stretched chain or a weak tensioner still.
How does the engine run when you're driving it? Does it have a smooth power band? Does it seem like it falls flat on its face at about 3500 to 4000 rpm? When did you notice that ticking sound?
If all of your bearings are in good shape and your crank shaft has the allowable forward and aft play, I would pull your timing chain and measure it. You may have a stretched chain or a weak tensioner still.
How does the engine run when you're driving it? Does it have a smooth power band? Does it seem like it falls flat on its face at about 3500 to 4000 rpm? When did you notice that ticking sound?
KidVermicious
New member
I feel like it runs strong, minus the cranky sounds. Last weekend I put in several hours of freeway time and several more on the dirt and it didn't object, didn't miss or run hot or give me any indication that it wasn't feeling well. Define "fall on it's face" - I generally shift right around 3500 when I'm accelerating, and I cruise at about 3200 (~75 mph) because it doesn't seem to have much past that point, but I wouldn't say it falls on it's face, it just feels like that's where the torque curve starts to fall off. It doesn't start stumbling or feel overly weak at that RPM, if that's what you mean.
Sounds - it's done the "diesel" rattle on startup since I got it, getting worse over time. It started the chuckling that I thought was valve lash about two months ago, maybe, and I don't think it's gotten significantly worse since. It's also got a kind of a zinging whine that raises pitch with RPM - I thought at first it was a pulley, but they all checked out so I've been thinking it was chain slack. If the tensioner really was bad, or wasn't getting oil pressure for whatever reason, or the chain stretched, it still could be chain slack.
Checking the main crank bearings when I get home in the morning, and if they're good I'm going to button it up and run it until something breaks or I find the time and cash to strip it down and rebuild it. I'm not sure I WANT to rebuild it at this point - it isn't burning oil, the timing stuff seemed new, and as Blackworks noted the bearings seem fresh, I don't think this motor has a huge number of miles on it. But what will be will be - I'm not at all intimidated at the thought of pulling the motor and tearing it all down, the way I would have been a year ago, so that's what I'm going to do if it comes to it.
The reason why I asked how your engine runs is because if you have a bad power band or if the engine falls on its face at 3500 rpm and up is because those are symptoms of a timing issue. Timing issue as in stretched chain or being off a tooth, ect. When I say "falls on its face" I mean does it lose pretty much all of its power. You should feel a good steady pull of power all the way up to 4500 rpm. You also have head work and a cam in your engine, right? If that is the case then you should have good power all the way to 5000 rpm or so.
KidVermicious
New member
The head is stock, with a 263 cam. If it had been off a tooth it would run rough at idle, wouldn't it? And I'm honestly having a hard time imagining a stretched chain with the newish guides I found.
But I do feel like the torque would start to fall off between 3000 and 3500, and even with the 5.29s I couldn't get it past 75 on the flat (around 3300 rpm), so maybe you're onto something.
My engine was off a tooth on the timing chain and the engine ran great but produced no power after 4k rpm. After I adjusted the chain I had a good power band all the way up to 5500 rpm, it made it hard not to redline the engine every time I drove it.
When you get to your timing chain again, measure it just to be sure. There's a step in the fsm for that. Also, check that the timing chain is installed correctly. That little bit of tap can come from the chain being off as well. Just judging from how the bearings looked on the crank, I can only assume that the engine is in good shape and the noise is coming from something simple... I could be wrong though but I would investigate the simple things first.
KidVermicious
New member
Nothing ever goes easy with this truck.
The bearings are all good - the mains are a little worse than the rod bearings, but they're all in good shape and gauge within spec. So I'm putting it all back together, and all of the lower left timing cover bolts are bottoming out before they snug the cover up. It's the weirdest thing. I shot the holes full of brake cleaner and then pb blast, hoping they've just got crud in em that I can clean out. I know for sure that I'm using the right bolts in the right spots because they all went into a chunk of cardboard one by one as they came out.
The old chain is the same length as the new one, SV, or near enough that I can't spot a difference between them stretched out side by side. Now I wish I'd taken a closer look at it before I'd pulled it off.
The bearings are all good - the mains are a little worse than the rod bearings, but they're all in good shape and gauge within spec. So I'm putting it all back together, and all of the lower left timing cover bolts are bottoming out before they snug the cover up. It's the weirdest thing. I shot the holes full of brake cleaner and then pb blast, hoping they've just got crud in em that I can clean out. I know for sure that I'm using the right bolts in the right spots because they all went into a chunk of cardboard one by one as they came out.
The old chain is the same length as the new one, SV, or near enough that I can't spot a difference between them stretched out side by side. Now I wish I'd taken a closer look at it before I'd pulled it off.
