Vibration after Savage skids combo install question.
- Thread starter Road Bull
- Start date
theesotericone
New member
[MENTION=119532]Road Bull[/MENTION]
I read this when you first posted it since I had the skids in my garage just waiting for me to have time to throw them on. My rig is a 97 4wd auto. I finally got some time today to get them bolted up.
I decided to just install them without removing anything or adding washer stacks. I figured if a had the same issue as you I could remedy it using your write up. After an hour of bolting and aligning the skids it was time for a drive.
I hit the highway and took it up to 85 with no noise or vibration. So far so good. Next was a well known dirt road that I like to drive way to fast on. It's been raining the past few days so the normal dust cloud was replaced by soft sand and lots of flying water. The skids also passed the dirt road test for my rig.
I got home and double checked all the bolts where still tight and called it a day. I did check the clearances from the skids the stock transfer skid plate as well as the dampener. Both had about 1/8 clearance all the way around.
So some people have this issue and some don't. With tolerances that tight it could be a number of things that make it fine for some and not others. I'm very happy with the quality and beefiness of the skids so far. Hope you are as well even with the issues you ran into.
I read this when you first posted it since I had the skids in my garage just waiting for me to have time to throw them on. My rig is a 97 4wd auto. I finally got some time today to get them bolted up.
I decided to just install them without removing anything or adding washer stacks. I figured if a had the same issue as you I could remedy it using your write up. After an hour of bolting and aligning the skids it was time for a drive.
I hit the highway and took it up to 85 with no noise or vibration. So far so good. Next was a well known dirt road that I like to drive way to fast on. It's been raining the past few days so the normal dust cloud was replaced by soft sand and lots of flying water. The skids also passed the dirt road test for my rig.
I got home and double checked all the bolts where still tight and called it a day. I did check the clearances from the skids the stock transfer skid plate as well as the dampener. Both had about 1/8 clearance all the way around.
So some people have this issue and some don't. With tolerances that tight it could be a number of things that make it fine for some and not others. I'm very happy with the quality and beefiness of the skids so far. Hope you are as well even with the issues you ran into.
theesotericone
New member
The vibration dampener and the stock skid are at the same height on my rig. I agree it makes sense to think it should be removed but on my install it clears just fine. Nowhere in the install instructions does it mention removing it. So I left it on. I'm double protected. lol
Road Bull
Senior Member
Cool! Glad you got them installed without issue. Let's see some pics!
I am guessing most vibration issues are due to a new surface to old surface contact, (for example the transfer skid resting on new Savage skid / or transfer dampener contacting skid). Mine happened to be the transfer skid. I also think that you are right in your estimation of tolerance variables. These 3rd gens might have slightly different geometry for some of their parts from 1996-2002. For instance, I know that 2001 & 2002 have some unique parts that are not interchangeable with older models.
That, and mounts could be worn and so on and so on. So I can't say definitively that ALL 2001s or 2002s would have the same issue. But I at least wanted to put some information out there for the next guy so that he doesn't have to guess or troubleshoot a bunch of extra steps to get their skids sorted. I imagine that are many like you [MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] that have no issue whatsoever. Hey... Did you have 13mm as well as 14mm bolts? I think all the bolts that fit into a threaded part of the skids, as well as all the front seemed to be 13mm, while the rear longer bolts seemed to be 14mm for me. Am I crazy or is that what you had?
The weather has been crap here, but I am still thinking about maybe making a short video about skid placement and order and known areas to check for contact. So maybe if we have a dry weekend where there is sunlight and no liquid sunshine, I might be able to make that happen.
layball:I didn't even really think about it till it was already done and buttoned up. Maybe this was because I was loosing daylight and maybe it had a fair amount to do with trying to get them into position without real supports, but more jerry rigged supports and using what I had at hand. lol.
I was kinda surprised that there were no directions that came with the box. For the most part, they really can only go on the one way, but because you start with the rear skid, it just feels a bit less obvious. When you get the bolts threaded, but not tight, it might look like everything will clear, but once you start ratcheting bolts down, it is difficult to see what is going on on the vehicle side of the skids.
It took some imagination to locate the source of the contact. I ended up taking pics of areas that I couldn't get my fat head inside. That, and my left eye is really just along for the ride and can't really see. So I was spinning around on the cardboard trying to find a place that I could get high enough to see the issue. After a few minutes of futile contortion, I realized I could get my phone into tiny places that I could snap a pic. That confirmed it for me. I knew that the OEM transfer skid was the issue. The harmonic dampener bologna was nowhere near my skid so I left it on. The only other thing I took off and left off was that ridiculous plastic splash guard that covers the fuel filter area. It seemed to be in conflict with the Savage skids. That, and I can't see it doing much.
A.Wilson013
New member
Even with the factory "skid" off my t-case still contacted my Savage skids. With daily driving it was fine, but once I started traveling down a rough road (or gravel) it got pretty loud.
TBuzz
New member
In my experience Skid plates are a big pita and when actually used on our trucks they give, bend and tweak. I've wondered why so many people deal with them that don't actually need them. Get used to that sound you heard because if you ever do activities that warrant big heavy skids like sliding your truck across rocks, it won't take much for that small amount of clearance created with the washers to be gone and the transfer rubbing again. Usually you don't notice until getting on the highway and it stars droning. Very easy to see the rub area when you remove skid plate and see where the paint is rubbbing off.
After I started wheeling and using my experience began. I was getting noise and it was from the transfer contacting the skid. Initially I reworked the skid plate and "lowered" the skid to clear the transfer. That seamed kind of backwards since I want ground clearance. In my research of other members experiencing this I found that although we have different skids myself, dirtco and bigfishallday have had to rebend, weld, straighten and even notch clearance in our skids. But the trucks entire weight gets put in them crawling rocks not just road debris. It was in biggish' thread I found that he cut a spot to clear his transfer and allow the rest of the skid to sit flush to cross members. I copied him and did the same.
Couple more things that may help in the future. Gravel or rocks up on the skid will make lots of noise. A loose bolt will also make a lot of noise. I tighten mine very tight because I'd rather do it in the driveway than on the trail, they will come loose. I have experienced a pop when initially driving after install but have attributed it to the skids self adjusting. I haven't had a skid plate on my truck since about September and I may never put a belly skid on it again as it is getting relieved of rock crawling.
Side note-I have an after market gas tank skid I bought from someone here. It fit fine and still does. However it was only welded on the outside of the seams and I broke several of the welds in just one trip last year. I'd recommend welding the inside or at least requesting it when it is made. Or plan to take it off and rework it.
After I started wheeling and using my experience began. I was getting noise and it was from the transfer contacting the skid. Initially I reworked the skid plate and "lowered" the skid to clear the transfer. That seamed kind of backwards since I want ground clearance. In my research of other members experiencing this I found that although we have different skids myself, dirtco and bigfishallday have had to rebend, weld, straighten and even notch clearance in our skids. But the trucks entire weight gets put in them crawling rocks not just road debris. It was in biggish' thread I found that he cut a spot to clear his transfer and allow the rest of the skid to sit flush to cross members. I copied him and did the same.
Couple more things that may help in the future. Gravel or rocks up on the skid will make lots of noise. A loose bolt will also make a lot of noise. I tighten mine very tight because I'd rather do it in the driveway than on the trail, they will come loose. I have experienced a pop when initially driving after install but have attributed it to the skids self adjusting. I haven't had a skid plate on my truck since about September and I may never put a belly skid on it again as it is getting relieved of rock crawling.
Side note-I have an after market gas tank skid I bought from someone here. It fit fine and still does. However it was only welded on the outside of the seams and I broke several of the welds in just one trip last year. I'd recommend welding the inside or at least requesting it when it is made. Or plan to take it off and rework it.
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A.Wilson013
New member
I completely agree with this. The make ANY work under the truck such a pain in the ass.
I have some good dings in mine, so I am sure that have done their job, but I imagine that 360 days out of the year they just provide a whole lot of weight.
Road Bull
Senior Member
[MENTION=95069]TBuzz[/MENTION]
Thanks for adding to the discussion! I feel it is all to easy to get focused on all the sweet gear and upgrades, but a lot of the day to day living with mods and their trade offs doesn't make front page news. When we go down the road to vehicle modification, it becomes a balancing act that is different for every user. Sometimes it's a bit of trial and error or thinking that you want or need something only to find out that it's not all that useful to you.
And for me, that's what makes this forum a invaluable resource. There are very few things that I consider doing that SOMEONE hasn't done before. If you pay attention, you don't have to keep learning the same things over and over.
[MENTION=63487]A.Wilson013[/MENTION]
Great points, and I fully agree. I have yet to have too many opportunities to put my rig in a position where I have used the skids as of yet. I might wait and see, but I might take the transmission and transfer skid off unless I have some planned wheeling trips. We'll see. I am not looking forward to my first oil change with my new skids. LOL.
Thanks for adding to the discussion! I feel it is all to easy to get focused on all the sweet gear and upgrades, but a lot of the day to day living with mods and their trade offs doesn't make front page news. When we go down the road to vehicle modification, it becomes a balancing act that is different for every user. Sometimes it's a bit of trial and error or thinking that you want or need something only to find out that it's not all that useful to you.
And for me, that's what makes this forum a invaluable resource. There are very few things that I consider doing that SOMEONE hasn't done before. If you pay attention, you don't have to keep learning the same things over and over.
[MENTION=63487]A.Wilson013[/MENTION]
Great points, and I fully agree. I have yet to have too many opportunities to put my rig in a position where I have used the skids as of yet. I might wait and see, but I might take the transmission and transfer skid off unless I have some planned wheeling trips. We'll see. I am not looking forward to my first oil change with my new skids. LOL.
Snowden
New member
[MENTION=119532]Road Bull[/MENTION] -- Hi Ryder thanks for creating this thread. I was very happy to find it this morning. I finally got around to installing Savage skids and I immediately had/have the small vibration. It's not huge but it's there. I didn't think to do any thread searches prior to installing them and if I had done I may likely have heeded the advise you gave during my installation. But since I didn't, and your thread is now over a year old, I'm interested in hearing how your solution held up for you given the other wise comments below regarding them bending after use regardless, etc.?
Something else I wondered about while noting you removed the small transfer case factory skid. Could the weight of it possibly have worked in balance with the vibration dampener mounted on the side of the TC. And therefore by removing it, could it have caused an adverse noticeable affect with the TC (?). I read through the other threads in the links you shared they all seem to conclude that removing the dampener and the little skid is fine to do. Your experience after a year + ?
Overall I am very happy with the skids and personally for me very pleased with this Savage product. They hit an amazing price point and the cost to benefit ratio is huge IMO. I am hoping down the road this doesn't become a love/hate relationship noting the other potential developments but at the end of the day, knowing they are below the rig protecting valuable assets of the vehicle, I'm pleased.
Something else I wondered about while noting you removed the small transfer case factory skid. Could the weight of it possibly have worked in balance with the vibration dampener mounted on the side of the TC. And therefore by removing it, could it have caused an adverse noticeable affect with the TC (?). I read through the other threads in the links you shared they all seem to conclude that removing the dampener and the little skid is fine to do. Your experience after a year + ?
Overall I am very happy with the skids and personally for me very pleased with this Savage product. They hit an amazing price point and the cost to benefit ratio is huge IMO. I am hoping down the road this doesn't become a love/hate relationship noting the other potential developments but at the end of the day, knowing they are below the rig protecting valuable assets of the vehicle, I'm pleased.
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Road Bull
Senior Member
[MENTION=133775]Snowden[/MENTION]
Good timing my friend. I had recently removed my skids to make it easier 4 Bull Built Differentials to install my 4.88 gears and rear locker.
So, I have not had any noticable vibration issues that whole time. I don't try to play in rock gardens or anything, but they gave held up well. So far, it's mostly oil pan skid that has taken any real hits. This makes sense as it generally is the lowest portion of the of the skid belly. Otherwise even with short 33s, we generally have pretty good clearance.
I've taken this time to clean them up a bit sand them in areas where there was a bit of rust, and throw another coat of Rust-Oleum hammered silver finish on them. All that to say the rears have held up but have not taken any serious abuse as of yet. I will probably add a few more washer spacers unless I can find a solid peace with 6 inch holes for the rear and maybe something for the front of the rear skid. Initially when I added the washers, I only added them to the rear two bolts. This go-round I will probably give it some more clearance by placing about 8 washers on all four corners of those anchoring bolts. This should give it enough clearance to allow for some slight deflection. I mean at that point if you taking some serious damage to the skid and it won't remount and you can't form it back to its original straight self, then I would say it's done its job and preventing some pretty gnarly alternative consequences, and already have paid for itself.
I've been driving around without any skids on for the moment to allow myself sometime to touch the skids up, and wanting to do some underneath housekeeping maintenance issues while everything is accessible. I have noticed a vibration around 60 mph. Now, this could be a tire out of balance, worn bushing, or many different other issues, but it will be interesting to see how my vehicle act when I put the skids back on. My harmonic balancer is still mounted. The only thing that was removed when installing the Savage skids was the small diff skid.
I love these skids.
Good timing my friend. I had recently removed my skids to make it easier 4 Bull Built Differentials to install my 4.88 gears and rear locker.
So, I have not had any noticable vibration issues that whole time. I don't try to play in rock gardens or anything, but they gave held up well. So far, it's mostly oil pan skid that has taken any real hits. This makes sense as it generally is the lowest portion of the of the skid belly. Otherwise even with short 33s, we generally have pretty good clearance.
I've taken this time to clean them up a bit sand them in areas where there was a bit of rust, and throw another coat of Rust-Oleum hammered silver finish on them. All that to say the rears have held up but have not taken any serious abuse as of yet. I will probably add a few more washer spacers unless I can find a solid peace with 6 inch holes for the rear and maybe something for the front of the rear skid. Initially when I added the washers, I only added them to the rear two bolts. This go-round I will probably give it some more clearance by placing about 8 washers on all four corners of those anchoring bolts. This should give it enough clearance to allow for some slight deflection. I mean at that point if you taking some serious damage to the skid and it won't remount and you can't form it back to its original straight self, then I would say it's done its job and preventing some pretty gnarly alternative consequences, and already have paid for itself.
I've been driving around without any skids on for the moment to allow myself sometime to touch the skids up, and wanting to do some underneath housekeeping maintenance issues while everything is accessible. I have noticed a vibration around 60 mph. Now, this could be a tire out of balance, worn bushing, or many different other issues, but it will be interesting to see how my vehicle act when I put the skids back on. My harmonic balancer is still mounted. The only thing that was removed when installing the Savage skids was the small diff skid.
I love these skids.
Snowden
New member
[MENTION=119532]Road Bull[/MENTION] . First and foremost congratulations on the ARB kit and 4.88's!! Nice upgrade Sir. I'll be following your main thread to see if you pull the trigger on 35's and how you'll like them.
Thanks for your reply to my questions. I'll be crawling back underneath this week and trying to determine if there is any clearance at all to those two items and if it is just mild contact I'm going to try buffering the Savage skid with spacers both front and rear and see if I can actually get away with leaving both the little skid and the dampener installed on the TC. I'm going to try and look for spacers like the little pucks that came with the diff drop kit I run. Not the diff drop spacers themselves but the little pucks that are for the factory skid plate mount bolts after the diff drop was installed. Otherwise yeah, a stack of washers... Fingers crossed I don't have significant contact and can get it resolved the simplest route.
Thanks for your reply to my questions. I'll be crawling back underneath this week and trying to determine if there is any clearance at all to those two items and if it is just mild contact I'm going to try buffering the Savage skid with spacers both front and rear and see if I can actually get away with leaving both the little skid and the dampener installed on the TC. I'm going to try and look for spacers like the little pucks that came with the diff drop kit I run. Not the diff drop spacers themselves but the little pucks that are for the factory skid plate mount bolts after the diff drop was installed. Otherwise yeah, a stack of washers... Fingers crossed I don't have significant contact and can get it resolved the simplest route.
Snowden
New member
[MENTION=119532]Road Bull[/MENTION] - Here's how I ended up doing it. Originally, after closer inspection, I found that the Vibration Dampener was not touching the Savage skid at all and it cleared by 1/2"+. The TC factory skid however, was touching hard.
I removed the little factory skid from the TC but I left the vibration dampener on as I preferred to keep it installed and there is no reason to remove it. Before adding the HDPE spacer the TC still cleared, and about the same height as the VD, but I wanted to give more clearance to both.
I added the spacer to lower the back end of Savage skid and instead of washers I went down to TAP Plastics and had them cut me a 2" x 11" x 3/4" piece of HDPE (Starboard) to provide support along the entire contact with the cross member. Cost me $3.50 and the guy even gave me a second leftover piece since he said he was going to throw it out anyway.
Since I only added the 3/4" thick HDPE to the back mounting position and not on the front mounting position, by the time you go forward to the TC it doesn't lower 3/4" under the TC obviously but it does increase the gap about 1/4". Technically since the TC is closer to the front of that skid plate, if you add the spacer to the front you'll yield more clearance. Or I may go and lower the front as well but for now it all clears just fine and I no longer have the vibration and it's back to normal. The skid itself is a relatively small square so I am not sure how easy one could cause it to bend and make TC contact. It's a very robust plate to begin with.
Starboard HDPE
No clearance before adding spacer but only the TC skid touches
Spacer added. It looks more noticeable in this very bad and close picture than it actually is or appears in person.
Final clearance
I removed the little factory skid from the TC but I left the vibration dampener on as I preferred to keep it installed and there is no reason to remove it. Before adding the HDPE spacer the TC still cleared, and about the same height as the VD, but I wanted to give more clearance to both.
I added the spacer to lower the back end of Savage skid and instead of washers I went down to TAP Plastics and had them cut me a 2" x 11" x 3/4" piece of HDPE (Starboard) to provide support along the entire contact with the cross member. Cost me $3.50 and the guy even gave me a second leftover piece since he said he was going to throw it out anyway.
Since I only added the 3/4" thick HDPE to the back mounting position and not on the front mounting position, by the time you go forward to the TC it doesn't lower 3/4" under the TC obviously but it does increase the gap about 1/4". Technically since the TC is closer to the front of that skid plate, if you add the spacer to the front you'll yield more clearance. Or I may go and lower the front as well but for now it all clears just fine and I no longer have the vibration and it's back to normal. The skid itself is a relatively small square so I am not sure how easy one could cause it to bend and make TC contact. It's a very robust plate to begin with.
Starboard HDPE
No clearance before adding spacer but only the TC skid touches
Spacer added. It looks more noticeable in this very bad and close picture than it actually is or appears in person.
Final clearance
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Road Bull
Senior Member
[MENTION=133775]Snowden[/MENTION]. I am glad your solution fixed your vibration issues.
And thanks for the heads up! That looks great. Low and behold... We have a TAP here in Seattle close to where I work. I popped in and picked one up for myself with the dimensions that you used. This will be way better than a stack of washers.
After I install my new sway bar bushings, I can throw my skids back on there. They are standing by for another season with a fresh coat of paint.
Thanks again man!
And thanks for the heads up! That looks great. Low and behold... We have a TAP here in Seattle close to where I work. I popped in and picked one up for myself with the dimensions that you used. This will be way better than a stack of washers.
After I install my new sway bar bushings, I can throw my skids back on there. They are standing by for another season with a fresh coat of paint.
Thanks again man!
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Snowden
New member
[MENTION=119532]Road Bull[/MENTION] - Right on Ryder I'm glad you were able to find a TAP nearby that's awesome. You'll be much happier than with a washer stack. That's funny we both used our lunch hours at TAP Plastics one day apart for the same thing... I was able to get mine in black but you might be able to paint your piece to match your skid or whatever. I know this stuff isn't supposed to hold paint well they say but I painted my front BL blocks from white to black and I have had no issues with peeling what-so-ever to date.
One point I want to say and that is, the dimension of 2" x 11" is for the back mounting location of a spacer. If one wanted to lower the front of that same skid, the spacer would want to be cut wider (longer) because the front of that skid is wider and makes more contact.
One point I want to say and that is, the dimension of 2" x 11" is for the back mounting location of a spacer. If one wanted to lower the front of that same skid, the spacer would want to be cut wider (longer) because the front of that skid is wider and makes more contact.
Road Bull
Senior Member
Yup. Going to get it mounted up this weekend. I went with white because it's not really visible, and it will be easier for me to see it under the vehicle, and I suppose it goes with the silver a bit better.
