Victim of odometer fraud :(

[ASUMTNEER]

Well, I got duped. I bought a 2002 sport 4x4 with, advertised, 178k miles recently. Nice truck, runs and drives very good for the age. After I bought it I had a guy track me down to inform me that he was trying to buy it at the same time I was trying to buy it. He had ran a carfax report (actually after I had already purchased it) and had seen that it had sold at auction in May of 2019 with 262k miles (he sent me the report). I bought it off an individual who bought it off a dealer in Nov of 2019. My seller says that he has no idea about it and that he was lied to by the dealer he bought it from. What do I do? The truck is nice, but it's likely got closed to 300k miles on it and therefor not worth anywhere near the money I have now invested in it. I know I should have ran a report, but what's done is done.


UPDATED: 10-27-20 I wanted to come back on and let you all know where this issue is now.
I filed a formal complaint with the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security. Pretty soon I had a highway patrol sergeant working on my case. He rattled the cages of both my seller, and the dealer my seller bought the car from. There was no real documentation of mileage after the auction purchase from 2019 @ 262k. The dealer claims that my seller bought it with 262k miles and told him his son had totaled a similar vehicle which they kept at their property (damning evidence if true, but a convenient story). I caught the dealer in a couple of lies over a couple of phone calls and the sergeant caught my seller in a couple of lies. With the threat of a civil suit from me, the dealer reached out to me in an attempt to settle. The dealer did not want to waste time in court and his attorney urged him to make a deal with me. Thankfully he made a reasonable offer to start, I countered that offer, and we settled on a sum that puts me back whole.

The issue is now resolved and when I get rid of this 4runner I will be sure to disclose the mileage discrepancy so that the next owner doesn't have to deal with this garbage! I hope this helps someone dealing with this down the line. My result is, according to the sergeant, an atypical one as these thieves usually cover their tracks well and get away with this stuff. In the end I'm glad I went the route of formal filings and not thugs on doorsteps .

 

[brillo_76]

Well, I got duped. I bought a 2002 sport 4x4 with, advertised, 178k miles recently. Nice truck, runs and drives very good for the age. After I bought it I had a guy track me down to inform me that he was trying to buy it at the same time I was trying to buy it. He had ran a carfax report (actually after I had already purchased it) and had seen that it had sold at auction in May of 2019 with 262k miles (he sent me the report). I bought it off an individual who bought it off a dealer in Nov of 2019. My seller says that he has no idea about it and that he was lied to by the dealer he bought it from. What do I do? The truck is nice, but it's likely got closed to 300k miles on it and therefor not worth anywhere near the money I have now invested in it. I know I should have ran a report, but what's done is done.

This is becoming more and more common.. The people that did the fraud need to be punished. Keep your rig as you now know its original milage but see if you can shut down that mileage fraud group.

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[WeakSauz]

Well, I got duped. I bought a 2002 sport 4x4 with, advertised, 178k miles recently. Nice truck, runs and drives very good for the age. After I bought it I had a guy track me down to inform me that he was trying to buy it at the same time I was trying to buy it. He had ran a carfax report (actually after I had already purchased it) and had seen that it had sold at auction in May of 2019 with 262k miles (he sent me the report). I bought it off an individual who bought it off a dealer in Nov of 2019. My seller says that he has no idea about it and that he was lied to by the dealer he bought it from. What do I do? The truck is nice, but it's likely got closed to 300k miles on it and therefor not worth anywhere near the money I have now invested in it. I know I should have ran a report, but what's done is done.

Wow- This is becoming a very common theme with 3rd Gens as their values continue to go up and up.

You're in NC also, and odo fraud isn't taken lightly here. If you have documented proof, and the address/contact details of the seller, you could contact your local Sheriff's office (or drive down there and talk to them for their advice).

Otherwise, you may have to deal with the DMV Theft Bureau office, call (919) 861-3143

 

[Ghostrider]

There should be some sort of paper trail on this. The person you bought it from should have a sales document from the dealer they bought it from showing the mileage. The dealer should have the same thing for whomever they bought it from. The fraud department should be able to find out pretty quick on this. In terms of what you should do - no idea. It kinda depends on who rolled the odometer back.

 

[blarchitect]

With the sum of money involved the legal recourse option will likely be cost prohibitive. The Police/DMV route will be timely and frustrating. Not advocating violence, but hire a couple of guys from the gym or boxing club to act as your cousins and go visit the seller for a friendly chat re. monetary compensation. Blaming the dealer does sound like one heck of a lie. They have too much to lose for a few hundred bucks

 

[clearock]

I don't the law in other states other than Colorado, but after a vehicle is 10yrs old the DMV doesn't even care what the miles read. I am not saying that what happened to u doesn't suck but u take a chance buying anything used and need to do ur Due diligence, with that said carfax while helpful don't generally tell u squat about a vehicle, in ur case it did tell u something. Did u have a shop look it over before u bought it? Not saying its always obvious but taking the time to look over the vehicle there r indicators between a 175k and 300k vehicle if u understand what ur looking at... sure there r law against odometer fraud but someone would have to prove fraud and not someone claiming the part had failed so they replaced it with what they could find (if u can even find someone that will say "i did it"), and with the cost of r vehicles as a whole, the police and DMV don't care or have time to deal with us low end old car buying peeps...

 

[mtbtim]

The lesson learned is don't trust people. Somebody tried to dupe me as well but when I looked at the Car Fax and realized the rig had 5 owners and there was clear odometer fraud going on, I called the guy out on it and I could tell this piece of shit was lying to me. He knew the true mileage of the rig. I could read his face and the A-hole knew he was caught trying to screw me over.

A Car Fax or similar report can save your ass and it's not that much money. If I were you, I'd demand the guy take the vehicle back and give you your money back. Threaten to take him to court. It's not your fault the guy you bought it from was duped as well, if that's actually the case. He sold you a vehicle based off of a lie.

 

[WeakSauz]

With the sum of money involved the legal recourse option will likely be cost prohibitive. The Police/DMV route will be timely and frustrating. Not advocating violence, but hire a couple of guys from the gym or boxing club to act as your cousins and go visit the seller for a friendly chat re. monetary compensation. Blaming the dealer does sound like one heck of a lie. They have too much to lose for a few hundred bucks

This may be a better route-- Not violent, not aggressive.

But a cool, calm, collected "Hey, I noticed the odometer. Let's just fix this now on our own terms and call it a day"

If they don't want to compensate you a percentage back (or take the whole truck back for full refund!!), then I'm sure the Sheriff's office in little ole Boone NC will be happy to pay the next visit (collect a paper trail to make their job easier)

 

[sleepydad]

I would never do it but is it just a matter of swapping clusters? anything from a 99-02 would just plug and play? so if I found an old 00 cluster with 50K miles on it I could just replace mine and bingo I have a 50K 00 instead of a 230K? I know the clusters were a little different between 96-97-98 but still would work for the same year class.

if that is true then yes this is just going to continue to happen. the reason I always pull the car fax if I'm buying.

 

[ASUMTNEER]

Seller is saying he can't give me a refund because he's already spent the money on paying bills. This is what I expected. I reached out to the TN criminal investigation division to see where I go from here. DMV shows the dealer buying it at auction with the 262k miles, but no mileage from the sale to my seller as the truck is 10 or more years old. They don't have a bill of sale on record. My guess is I'd have to sue my seller and he'd have to countersue the dealer he bought it from, but I really don't want to go there. I guess I'll wait to hear back and report back here.

 

[clearock]

I would never do it but is it just a matter of swapping clusters? anything from a 99-02 would just plug and play?

Not going to go into details instructions so someone doesn't read this and do it but on the 99-02 its a lot easier to do then cluster swapping. Just and FYI to peeps also, after the Dallas hurricane Harvey, people where and have been able to bring salvaged 4runners (other vehicles also) to Colorado and get clean Colorado vehicle titles, all seems good until u get in an MVR and ur insures tells u their not paying 4 the vehicle because its already been salvage claimed. So another line of defense is to talk ur insurer and have them check the vin 4 claims.

 

[mtbtim]

Seller is saying he can't give me a refund because he's already spent the money on paying bills. This is what I expected. I reached out to the TN criminal investigation division to see where I go from here. DMV shows the dealer buying it at auction with the 262k miles, but no mileage from the sale to my seller as the truck is 10 or more years old. They don't have a bill of sale on record. My guess is I'd have to sue my seller and he'd have to countersue the dealer he bought it from, but I really don't want to go there. I guess I'll wait to hear back and report back here.

Well again, this guy saying he used the money to pay bills isn't your problem. Just tell the guy you want your damn money back and you don't give a shit where he gets the money. If you know where this guy lives, a little hint that things aren't going to end up well for him is maybe all you need to do. All you have to say to the guy when he keeps on repeating he can't give you a refund is, "You realize I know where you live. You're going to take this vehicle back and give me a full refund!" I'm not saying you hurt the guy or do any vandalism to his house but maybe putting a little fear into the douchebag will motivate him to do the right thing.

 

[brillo_76]

All excellent points here. I am going to check my one rig. It was low miles and the only one I suspect of all mine as possible. However, the wear and maintenance wear matches the miles. So its possible it's legit but I also bought this one off a lot so I just better verify it in case the lot owner or someone else tried to fraud it.

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[cb1111]

Odometer fraud is a felony that often comes with jail time. This guy sounds like he has done it before so I'd be very careful and leave it to the professionals.

NHTSA's odometer fraud investigators are some of the few DOT employees that are "gun toters" (Pipeline & HAZMAT investigators, OIG and the Secretary's security detail are some of the others) because these investigators can run into some nasty people.

Here are the steps to take.

 

[Bikeric]

I bought a beautiful 1995 calypso blue 3000GT with tan leather interior, removable roof panel and only 93,000 miles on the odometer for $1,700. A couple of months later, the darn thing started smoking at stop lights so I decided to trade it in a truck at a local dealership....Dealer said they couldn't take it because the odometer was rolled back from 160,000 miles at least. Not once did it occur to me to go back to the seller I bought it from and try to intimidate them to get my money back. Maybe they knew, maybe they didn't? It was my fault for thinking I was getting a great car at a ridiculous low price. You may be in the opposite situation and paid a premium for something you feel was misrepresented. It's a sad part of life that we all can get taken at some point. Just try and do better next time.
P.S. I fully disclosed the odometer issue and smoking of the 3000GT, and ended up trading it straight across for a trashed out 1987 V8 Firebird.

 

[blarchitect]

Odometer Fraud NHTSA
A written odometer declaration by seller not applicable to vehicles 10+ years old so NHTSA have no skin in this scam.

 

[JZiggy]

I'm with Tim that you should not roll over and die on this. The guy scammed you and knows it, and you need to let him know that you know it and won't have it. So he "spent all the money already", huh? Well I bet a crook like that knows how to take out a title loan on his own car if he has to. You do NOT need to be the nice guy here.

 

[cb1111]

Odometer Fraud NHTSA
A written odometer declaration by seller not applicable to vehicles 10+ years old so NHTSA have no skin in this scam.

This is what happens when you know a little tiny bit of the rules and selectively quote what you think bolsters your point.

The entire part you should have quoted reads "If the odometer mileage is incorrect, the law requires a statement to that effect to be furnished on the title to the buyer. However, vehicles 10 years old and older are exempt from the written disclosure requirements.

This does not mean that the odometer on a 10+ year old car can be rolled back.


Here is some information on odometer fraud.

 

[MagusWyatt]

Seller is saying he can't give me a refund because he's already spent the money on paying bills. This is what I expected. I reached out to the TN criminal investigation division to see where I go from here. DMV shows the dealer buying it at auction with the 262k miles, but no mileage from the sale to my seller as the truck is 10 or more years old. They don't have a bill of sale on record. My guess is I'd have to sue my seller and he'd have to countersue the dealer he bought it from, but I really don't want to go there. I guess I'll wait to hear back and report back here.

Keep in mind that I'm a dude on the internet, so your choices are your own. That being said, here are some things to think about: From several years in the legal field, I can tell you that you're right that it could be a real headache to go through legal means to sue, and may not be worth the sum that you lost. It does depend on a few factors, though.

If the seller was the one that rolled back the odo, it could be fairly simple in a lower court because of the small sum of money. Still takes time and money, though.

If the dealership was the one that did it, you'd have to start with your seller and then he'd likely have to go the route of a third party complaint against the dealer. Things could get really complex really quickly.

With the sum of money involved the legal recourse option will likely be cost prohibitive. The Police/DMV route will be timely and frustrating. Not advocating violence, but hire a couple of guys from the gym or boxing club to act as your cousins and go visit the seller for a friendly chat re. monetary compensation. Blaming the dealer does sound like one heck of a lie. They have too much to lose for a few hundred bucks

Well again, this guy saying he used the money to pay bills isn't your problem. Just tell the guy you want your damn money back and you don't give a shit where he gets the money. If you know where this guy lives, a little hint that things aren't going to end up well for him is maybe all you need to do. All you have to say to the guy when he keeps on repeating he can't give you a refund is, "You realize I know where you live. You're going to take this vehicle back and give me a full refund!" I'm not saying you hurt the guy or do any vandalism to his house but maybe putting a little fear into the douchebag will motivate him to do the right thing.

Assuming it was the private seller that did this, though street justice is very appealing, I'd also say that this isn't the best way to handle things. If the guy knows anything, he could take a text mentioning that you know where he lives as a threat or even a perceived threat and file for a restraining order. In contrast to you taking him to court, his route would be free to him and if granted, it could strip you of some of your rights like being able to own a gun. (I assume that's still a right in NC?)

I obviously can't legally suggest a specific route, but think about the option of going through NHTSA. Make sure to get some form of communication from them that they're taking action. Save it and show it to the guy. Tell him that if it was him, he's going to be in a world of felony hurt when they track it back to him. You'll probably find out pretty quickly whether it was him or not. He may just give you your money back. If he really didn't do it, then you both get to go after the dealership.

If it was the dealer: By law they have to have records on the sale. If the sale records to the private buyer show a lower odometer reading than the auction records, then the dealer is in for the hurt. I've seen a couple of small criminal dealerships go down this way.

If it was the private seller: The dealership would have records showing that the odo was correct at the time they sold it. To get things moving, you could even show the NHTSA printout to them and ask to see the sale records. That would clear them and make the evidence point to the private seller.

Either way, you will likely find out who the culprit is and can help the NHTSA with the investigation. Just remember that when doing things like showing the NHTSA paperwork and such, limit your in-person contact. People do stupid things when they're under pressure, especially when it's being threatened with a felony offense. Plus, doing things over the phone, text, or e-mail allow you to record (check your local laws for recording phone conversations first) interactions so you can submit them to the NHTSA.

Whatever you decide, good luck! I hope whomever is at fault gets their just dessert.

 

[blarchitect]

This is what happens when you know a little tiny bit of the rules and selectively quote what you think bolsters your point.

The entire part you should have quoted reads "However, vehicles 10 years old and older are exempt from the written disclosure requirements.
.
.

Which is exactly what I said. My point (and reading comprehension) has been further "bolstered" by your confirmation ie. 10+ years old vehicles DO NOT REQUIRE A WRITTEN DECLARATION BY SELLER. Therefore, in this instance (post #10) the OP has no recourse through the NHTSA.