"Voltage Booster" for 31M AGM Battery

[Leigh]

The fuse I have in mine, at 200% rated, has a trip time of about 1s. 30A would be less than 1/10th of a second

Now I'm concerned about my HKB fuse, please post the blow-delay curve for your fusible links

As I wrote, obtain a few form different manufactures test them to see how they actually compare against their specs.

You would be using the PTC version, in the PTC the fusible links are for redundancy should the PTC ever fail, links therefore have to have a longer fuse time than the PTC else they would trip first. The trip time of the device is normally determined by the trip time of the PTC which is around .01 seconds at 30A for the mini blade version and .001 seconds for the microblade version.

 

[Leigh]

Typo above, 300W should read 30W.

 

[Leigh]

Imagine that I'm a 3rd grader here, so please use common language, why is your voltage booster better than:

1. LOLSNOWS

and

2. Much better than the GM solution

and

3. why is your product worth 80 bucks?

I have all 3 of these products, and they all work as advertise. From your posts, all i can see is that you are trying to quantify the risks of using another product vs yours, but so far those risks haven't materialized. Not saying it won't or couldn't, or can't, other than it hasn't happened.

Also, i seriously can't fathom how you get away with charging 80 dollars for your product. What I received is not worth 10 dollars in material costs... It looks to me a diode, hot glued to a wire, hot glued to a fuse holder wrapped in bubble wrap in a small cardboard envelope.......... Granted you can charge whatever the demand dictates...... Sure it might have been worth 80 dollars when you were the only one selling voltage boosters........

Bring your charges in line with your competition maybe you won't be crying so much.

I"m not a electrical engineer, just a stingy consumer who can't justify spending 80 dollars for your product in its current format.

Yes, we are worse than investors on a episode of shark tank.

Hi mrblah,

First off, LOLSNOWS device appears to be very well made, my concerns were, mounting a bare PCB board in the fuse box, no protection from physical damage and it appears to have no environmental protection but I maybe be wrong in this case as it could have had a protective surface coating applied, perhaps LOLSNOW can provide more info?

My second concern is the rating of the fuse, in the event of a dead short circuit occurring in the voltage sensing wire and allowing for say a wire resistance of .1 ohm you have around 120A flowing in the circuit though is it likely to be much higher than that. Under such conditions no problem, the fuse will blow instantly and protect the wiring.

The gray area is what happens if you don't have a dead short, say we get a fault condition where we have 12A flowing for a long period, I didn't notice the rating of diodes used on the PCB but say they are 3A devices. Voltage drop across a typical 3A diode at 12A would be around 1.1V initially, so we have around 13W being dissipated in the diode, if LOLSNOWS has provide enough heat sink area to safely dissipate the heat load then no problem, if he hasn't then the diode/s will get very hot and you could end up with an a problem. If you replace the 10A fuse with a 2A one and then allow for a continuous current of 2.5A the the wattage drops to around 2W which is much more manageable but again depends on the heat sink area as to how hot would get. Perhaps LOLSNOWS can add more info on his design specs?

If your happy with the above I would use his device as its cheaper than ours and will do what you want it to do. By the way what does it cost?

GM version, why is ours better, it won't set fire to your car!

Why would you buy from us, seriously if you have a local supplier that's charging the same or less as that of an imported one and it offers the same safety features and performance why would you not support your local manufacturer manufacturer?

Where is the cost in our devices, the MK2 & MK3 devices contain a diode, a PTC fuse and two fusible links, now look at LOLSNOWS PCB and take away the switch and replace one diode with another fuse, now shrink it down to fit into a micro blade or mini blade package and assembled under a microscope, then insert the electronics package into the fuse case and pot it. That is where the cost is.

Are our devices very expensive compared to the US products at $29US, $36US and $43US respectively for the MK1, Mk3 and MK2, plus $15 shipping to the US?

If you can find a company who can produce our product for the price you want to pay please let me know and I'll outsource manufacturing to them.

Our devices offer the same functionality that LOLSNOWS do, ie they cause a voltage drop while retaining the circuit protection provided by the fuse they replaced.
How do our devices differ from LOLSNOWS, they trip at a much lower fault current, 750ma for the MK3 and 500ma for the MK2, thermal dissipation in the diode always remains within safe limits, the electronics packs are fully sealed and potted in epoxy for physical and environmental protection, they only occupy the footprint of the fuse they replace, ie they are the same physical size and shape of the fuse they replace.

Cheers
Leigh

 

[Leigh]

GM engineers found it to be perfectly acceptable for their vehicles so nothing wrong with it. There is almost no current on that fuse, its just a sensing circuit to detect if there is voltage there or not. your power system is not running thru that fuse. And it is still a fuse it doesn't eliminate any safety factor.

It works exactly like GM intended it to. It's all proven technology for the last 20 or 30 years

Oops, I think I have missed something here, my safety arguments regarding the GM diode are based on the diode not having a fuse in it, the Littlefuse company diode also suggested for example does not have a fuse in the package only a diode?

If the GM fuse does contain a fuse what is it rated at?

What is the rating of the fuse?

 

[SlickTRD]

Interesting how you tout your product as superior when you have not yet physically review two competitor's product. Let's not forget that one is an OEM supplier.

 

[Leigh]

Agree my bad in this case, I was basing my advise on sample batches of mini diodes fuses I have obtained from various companies
through the world including the US. None contain both a fuse and a diode, only a diode with no overload protection.

I have now sent product information requests to the Littlefuse company, GMparts and Delphi and will be very interested to see the replies I get.

 

[chaz]

leigh, whats your view on the one from DIRTY PARTS? Dirty Parts

 

[57buick]

Oops, I think I have missed something here, my safety arguments regarding the GM diode are based on the diode not having a fuse in it, the Littlefuse company diode also suggested for example does not have a fuse in the package only a diode?

If the GM fuse does contain a fuse what is it rated at?

What is the rating of the fuse?

I think it is a 1amp fuse, which is all that is needed. It is used in at least 50 different GM vehicles.

Like I said it is only sensing voltage present it doesnt actually run any power thru that circuit.

Ive been using one in my 4runner for a year without issue now with my dual battery system

 

[007Tacoma]

well this just got fun...

op2:

 

[Leigh]

leigh, whats your view on the one from DIRTY PARTS? Dirty Parts

It will do the job of raising the voltage, it you get a short in the wiring the fuse will blow so safe in that respect. The issue of heat dissipation still exists with it as it has a 7.5A fuse, I would replace the fuse with a 2A one and you should be good to go. It would be good though if someone who has one could set it up to have say 4A flowing through it continuously and see just how hot it gets.

 

[mrblah]

Hi mrblah,

First off, LOLSNOWS device appears to be very well made, my concerns were, mounting a bare PCB board in the fuse box, no protection from physical damage and it appears to have no environmental protection but I maybe be wrong in this case as it could have had a protective surface coating applied, perhaps LOLSNOW can provide more info?

My second concern is the rating of the fuse, in the event of a dead short circuit occurring in the voltage sensing wire and allowing for say a wire resistance of .1 ohm you have around 120A flowing in the circuit though is it likely to be much higher than that. Under such conditions no problem, the fuse will blow instantly and protect the wiring.

The gray area is what happens if you don't have a dead short, say we get a fault condition where we have 12A flowing for a long period, I didn't notice the rating of diodes used on the PCB but say they are 3A devices. Voltage drop across a typical 3A diode at 12A would be around 1.1V initially, so we have around 13W being dissipated in the diode, if LOLSNOWS has provide enough heat sink area to safely dissipate the heat load then no problem, if he hasn't then the diode/s will get very hot and you could end up with an a problem. If you replace the 10A fuse with a 2A one and then allow for a continuous current of 2.5A the the wattage drops to around 2W which is much more manageable but again depends on the heat sink area as to how hot would get. Perhaps LOLSNOWS can add more info on his design specs?

If your happy with the above I would use his device as its cheaper than ours and will do what you want it to do. By the way what does it cost?

GM version, why is ours better, it won't set fire to your car!

Why would you buy from us, seriously if you have a local supplier that's charging the same or less as that of an imported one and it offers the same safety features and performance why would you not support your local manufacturer manufacturer?

Where is the cost in our devices, the MK2 & MK3 devices contain a diode, a PTC fuse and two fusible links, now look at LOLSNOWS PCB and take away the switch and replace one diode with another fuse, now shrink it down to fit into a micro blade or mini blade package and assembled under a microscope, then insert the electronics package into the fuse case and pot it. That is where the cost is.

Are our devices very expensive compared to the US products at $29US, $36US and $43US respectively for the MK1, Mk3 and MK2, plus $15 shipping to the US?

If you can find a company who can produce our product for the price you want to pay please let me know and I'll outsource manufacturing to them.

Our devices offer the same functionality that LOLSNOWS do, ie they cause a voltage drop while retaining the circuit protection provided by the fuse they replaced.
How do our devices differ from LOLSNOWS, they trip at a much lower fault current, 750ma for the MK3 and 500ma for the MK2, thermal dissipation in the diode always remains within safe limits, the electronics packs are fully sealed and potted in epoxy for physical and environmental protection, they only occupy the footprint of the fuse they replace, ie they are the same physical size and shape of the fuse they replace.

Cheers
Leigh

Thank you for the response.

 

[Leigh]

I think it is a 1amp fuse, which is all that is needed. It is used in at least 50 different GM vehicles.

Like I said it is only sensing voltage present it doesnt actually run any power thru that circuit.

Ive been using one in my 4runner for a year without issue now with my dual battery system

Hi 57Buick, yes under normal conditions there is very little current flowing in the circuit, but under a fault condition, ie the wiring gets shorted to ground in an accident the only thing that will limit the current flowing in the circuit will be the resistance of the wire and that's when the fuses function comes into action.

I'm sure it is used in 50 different GM vehicles as you say but is it actually being used for the same purpose as here, ie to increase the alternators output voltage, if it is I can't for the life of me see why GM just didn't change the setting in the voltage regulators of the alternators they are fitting?

I have looked at the data sheet for the GM diode, it clearly states that the package contains a 1A diode, it makes no mention of a fuse also being included in the package. There are many similar devices available, most are described as a fuse diode or diode fuse. I looked at using similar when we first found the need to increase the alternators voltage output as it would have been an easy option, but none of the units we could find at the time had inbuilt fuse protection they only had a diode in the package, I'm looking at one now and it is identical to the GM diode shown above.

We did testing on these and found you needed a current of over a 100 amps to cause them to fuse out. We also did testing in wiring forms taken from some crash tested Prados and found the diodes never fused out the wiring forms all went up in flames!

Seems I will have to source some of these GM diodes as we could resell them as a cheaper version of one of our own products if where happy with the test results.

Thanks for the info,

Cheers
Leigh

 

[Leigh]

Does anyone know of a supplier of the GM diode that ships internationally and sorry due to custom and taxation regulations it needs to be business?

 

[RobotTrader]

Hi 57Buick, yes under normal conditions there is very little current flowing in the circuit, but under a fault condition, ie the wiring gets shorted to ground in an accident the only thing that will limit the current flowing in the circuit will be the resistance of the wire and that's when the fuses function comes into action.

I'm sure it is used in 50 different GM vehicles as you say but is it actually being used for the same purpose as here, ie to increase the alternators output voltage, if it is I can't for the life of me see why GM just didn't change the setting in the voltage regulators of the alternators they are fitting?

I have looked at the data sheet for the GM diode, it clearly states that the package contains a 1A diode, it makes no mention of a fuse also being included in the package. There are many similar devices available, most are described as a fuse diode or diode fuse. I looked at using similar when we first found the need to increase the alternators voltage output as it would have been an easy option, but none of the units we could find at the time had inbuilt fuse protection they only had a diode in the package, I'm looking at one now and it is identical to the GM diode shown above.

We did testing on these and found you needed a current of over a 100 amps to cause them to fuse out. We also did testing in wiring forms taken from some crash tested Prados and found the diodes never fused out the wiring forms all went up in flames!

Seems I will have to source some of these GM diodes as we could resell them as a cheaper version of one of our own products if where happy with the test results.

Thanks for the info,

Cheers
Leigh

Still pushing your one sided narrative of doom and gloom. Car wreck? I also loved your comment where the 50 fuses under my hood are all little miniature IEDs and if those don't kill me the 25 fuses in the driver area near my left testicle defiantly will.

Here's the facts Leigh. A fuse is a nice to have but not necessary. Why?
Because unless you get a short caused by a head on collision with a 18 wheeler like you speak of that circuit will:

• never overheat
• never send more than 1Amp
• Never turn our 4Runners into a giant fireball

Again, if it did we'd have heard about it and you would've linked us to countless Youtube videos supporting your claim.

Now why did GM and others use the diode fuse? IT'S CHEAP!!! The cheapest one I found on the market was around $2.00! Also, I forgot the marketing term (interchangeable parts??) but did you know the alternators are mass produced and are shared across virtually all manufacturers? And if GM, BMW, etc wanted the alternator to supply just a bit more voltage than what was originally spec'd they have two options. Pay a buttload more for a specially made alternator or hey, throw on a diode.

And I get you. It should be fused. It should have redundancy... blah blah blah. But imagine getting Americans to shell out $80 to buy your product for these safety features everytime their $2 diode fails when that same $80 surprisingly gets you 2 brand spanking new AC Delco Alternators from GM's parts store.

That's the truth and reality. Verified by GM, littlefuse, and the hundreds of millions of cars out there along with the hundreds of billion replacement diodes available for sale across parts departments across the world. Your narrative simply doesn't make sense and it's beyond surprising you keep pushing it.

 

[Leigh]

"That's the truth and reality. Verified by GM, littlefuse"

First off can you get the terminology right, they are not diode fuses, the data sheets state "Diode" there is no mention of a fuse in the units, they do not have a fuse inside them, there is no overload protection, if you can't provide hard evidence then its just hearsay.

The littlefuse company for one indicate their is no fuse in the Diode, in no way advise that it is safe to replace a fuse with one so it seems they are at odds with GM. If GM have found over many years and models that they need to replace the fuse with a diode why haven't they just manufactured a safe part, they certainly change fuse layouts as required, add relays a fusible links why not have say a fuse with a link in series that can be replaced with a diode if required. Toyota provide links to remove power from certain circuits when they ship their cars. Just does not make sense if this has been going on for a long period why they would not have a diode with integrated fuse made specifically for this purpose. I just don't believe their is a fuse in the part number suggested, I have never seen any automotive part that did not clearly indicate what it is, the data sheet states schematic symbol to appear on top of unit, the symbol only shows a diode and no fuse, why would you need to modify it to fit it, it would quickly cost them more in labor doing this than to have a part made to do the job, just does not make sense, where is your proof it has a fuse or are you just relying on what others have written as being gospel?

If GM and they have been doing it for many years and it is common knowledge why can't I find anything info to support this claim, if it is common knowledge then post up some UTUBE links or links to a charging system schematics showing the diode or other supporting evidence to support your claim as you suggested I do with regards the fire risk else its just hearsay by you. I certainly don't believe BMW or Holden do it either, again where is your supporting data.

Mr Toyota does not share your belief it is a safe practice either Toyota never seen or it done in a Toyota from the factory. I would love to hear what GM would have to say if it was found that replacing the protective fuse with a Diode in a GM vehicle to raise the voltage resulted in a few deaths. I'm sure they would say "we did it to save buying in some new alternators, we found it to be perfectly acceptable for solution for our vehicles". Same for anyone manufacturing an after market device that replaces a protective fuse, they would be leaving them selves wide open to legal action if their device resulted in loss of property or life a was found to not to have a fuse that provides at least the equivalent protection of the fuse it replaced. Good luck with your insurance company too if they find your elcheapo fuse caused the loss.

Interestingly all the device I found for sale in the US have fuses in them including the NONSLOW, appears they don't share your blasé attitude.

Here's the facts Leigh. A fuse is a nice to have but not necessary. Why?
Because unless you get a short caused by a head on collision with a 18 wheeler like you speak of that circuit will:
never overheat
never send more than 1Amp
Never turn our 4Runners into a giant fireballNow to what could cause the ALT-S or CHG fuse in other makes to blow:

No here's the facts Mr Robot I can see foresee and have seen many events that could cause the ALT-S or CHG fuse in other makes to blow:

Accident damage and no 18 wheelers involved (have seen ALT-S fuse and alternator fuses blown)

Accident damage and no 18 wheelers involved, thank good never been involved in such

Collision with a roo, cattle, horses, camels, and whatever other wild life you have in the US.

Rodent damage, seen plenty of this, go bush here you put bait under the bonnet

Someone putting a screw driver through the loom, happens often.

Someone working on the wiring getting it wrong, seen this

A fault in the voltage regulator. (Have seen this a few times, parasite current draw via the regulator causes ALT-S fuse to blow).

Spanners jammed under fuse box, seen this

Sockets jammed under fuse box, seen this

Fuse box mounts pinching wiring loom seen this

A burn out in the alternator, blew main 150A fuse and the ALT-S fuse

A mechanical failures in the alternator (bearing failures damaging the internals)

Someone changing the alternator, seen the plug off the connecting cable many times

Alternator plugs becoming brittle and falling apart, common occurrence.

After market equipment or mounting brackets rubbing on the loom, seen this.

A bit of gravel rubbing and damaging the insulation, seen this.

Screws and rivets through the wiring loom

People drill through the loom seen this

Wiring pinched when changing parts, seen this many times

People making stupid changes

A piece of metal flicked up of the road penetrating the loom, seen this

A star picket though the alternator, haven’t seen one through the alternator but have seen one though the radiator near the alternator and another flicked up and penetrated the timing cover.

Fan belt delaminating and abrading the loom, seen this.

The list could go on and on, if you work in automotive electronics and electrical long enough you come to believe anything is possible.

You have a pretty blasé attitude to safety, I wonder what the other members of the forums views are on this issue

I hope no member of this forum who has one of these diodes installed ever has a head on Collison etc and finds themselves sitting trapped inside their regretting having removed that fuse and replacing it with an elcheapo diode.

Form memory of a document I found on the net and quickly there were in the US alone between 2014-2016 171500 highway vehicle fires, 29% of those were caused by electrical fires, and that's just highway fires according to the document. Mr Toyota in his good wisdom has foreseen there is a possibility that fault condition can occur and has put a fuse in place to protect the vehicle and occupants from harm so hopefully they don't become another statistic, really readers why would anyone in their right mind compromise a safety device the manufacture has fitted that might one day save your life by replacing it with equivalent of a thick bit of wire and further up the chances of a fire?

You wrote "And I get you. It should be fused" but you keep pushing that members compromise the safety of their vehicles by using the elcheapo diode why I wonder are you not saying the diode is a cheapest solution but if you wish to retain the safety features the car manufacture has provided buy a dirty parts unit?

The bottom line seems to be:

If your really tight fisted and safety is of no concern go the elcheapo diode.

If you believe Mr Toyota knows what his doing after all he designed the car and included what he thought were required safety features buy a unit with a fuse ie the dirty parts unit.

If you want something better still then get the circuit board unit or other.


Cheers
Leigh

 

[nglayton]

If anyone's interested, ArcLight is taking pre-orders. Get them while you can!

Triple State Voltage Booster - 5th Gen 4Runner — ArcLightLEDs

FYI, back in stock now.......just ordered mine. FYI the Map, Dome and Hatch lights are genius! Bite the bullet and order them all, you won't be sorry.

 

[007Tacoma]

i didn't pour through the thread because I'm at work, but I did end up posting a YouTube video about my experience with this voltage booster. I've had it in for the past >10,000 miles, and I have not had any issues with my battery discharging too much with the fridge (SnoMaster 42L) running constantly while camped.

YouTube

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PwZptfaqCdQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[jicko]

Do we have a consensus what's the best booster solution for a 31M AGM battery?

:clap2: :fear:

 

[WhiteBoomer04]

Ok, well that was a lot of reading.

I placed an order then realized I hadn't checked to see if this (ArcLight Triple) is suitable for the 4th Gen. 4.7ltr 4R. Anyone know? Is it mentioned elsewhere in this thread and I missed it - apologies if so!

 

[ALowe]

i didn't pour through the thread because I'm at work, but I did end up posting a YouTube video about my experience with this voltage booster. I've had it in for the past >10,000 miles, and I have not had any issues with my battery discharging too much with the fridge (SnoMaster 42L) running constantly while camped.

YouTube

I watched your video and just want to clarify, the ArcLight booster would eliminate the need for "maintenance" charges i would need otherwise. I drive about 1 hour roudn trip each day and run a Costway fridge in the back. All was well for about 2 weeks then kept getting the low voltage error. Fridge is working as designed and not leaving me stranded but im hoping this keeps the battery topped up with normal driving each day.