Want to trade in my 4th Gen for a 3rd Gen...

[MtnT4R]

I love my 4Runner, but I think its time to trade it in for a 3rd Gen. My reasoning:

1- I found out after purchase that Carfax is a joke; my T4 has been in 3 front end collisions and there is simply nothing I can do about a front end messed up JUST enough to piss me off everytime I look at it.
2- The stance and look of the 3rd Gens appeal to me a lot more for any number of reasons.
3- Budget is pretty tight right now so I could definitely use a lower loan payment and insurance premium.
4- I found a '98 with 150k miles that looks to be in fantastic shape. Having my insurance company and a friend in the dealership business run the VIN this time so I don't have to deal with any surprises.

My question for you fine folks is, what chronic problems with 3rd Gens should I be aware of before I head down to take a look at this sucker? Its an SR5, 3.4L V6, 5 speed manual. The dealer also offers a 3month/3,000 mile warranty on its used inventory. They're asking $8k, which is obviously high but in CO 4Runners command higher prices than KBB due to market demand. Honestly I'd be ok paying $7k, it puts me at an appealing monthly payment and I'm just a sucker for a nice clean 4Runner(which mine right now definitely is NOT). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[viceversa]

Take a look at the 3rd gen buyers guide here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/82033-3rd-gen-4runner-buyers-guide.html

also, is that 4runner you are looking at 4x4? if so then that price (from a dealer) sounds about right. Of course private party will be cheaper by a couple thousand at least. San Diego 4runner prices are pretty jacked up as well but for reference...I just recently picked up my 1999 Limited 4wd with e-locker option and 180k miles from private seller for $6,500. Granted I just dumped about a grand in parts into it for front brake upgrade, new lower / upper ball joints and other misc missing items... but I knew it had to be done when I bought it. Helps out with negotiation if you know whats wrong from the start so get reading on that buyers guide for a good idea on what to look for!

ninja edit: I recommend on looking at 3rd gens which are 1999-2002

 

[MtnT4R]

Awesome thanks! We don't have a nice resource like that, just a bunch of fragmented threads for 4th Gens.

Yeah its a 4x4- its crazy how much value these trucks hold, and for good reason. Unfortunately my trade in value will be about $8k if I'm lucky, so I'd like a little negotiating room if I can find it.

What is your preference for '99s over the '98s?(I'm reading the buyers guide now)

 

[AZ_Trails]

Good call on the Buyer's Guide. It was invaluable when I was looking for my rig. I would recommend 99+ as well, for the "updates" plus it's a newer truck with hopefully lower mileage.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

I am a 3rd gen and 4th gen owner. 3rd gen is mine and 4th gen is my wife's, even though I am the one driving it 80% of the time, haha.

I would say don't switch over to the dark side so quickly. I love my 3rd gen, but if I could have afforded a 4th gen I probably would have got one. The 4.0 is my favorite V6 Toyota has put in a truck, they are so powerful compared to the others. Plus I assure you many 3rd gen/1st gen tacoma owners have serious 4.0 envy and you will end up wanting to dump a $3K super charger in your 3rd gen just to get the power back.

Plus on a 3rd gen, be prepared to do some maintenance and get you hands dirty. You will have about $1000 worth of stuff to replace in the first few months if you want to make it reliable (ball joints, trans coolers, steering parts, etc). Plus there is always something to do with these things. I am always chasing something down. It's not the miles so much on these trucks that is the concern, but the age. They are just getting old and require a lot of upkeep from things getting old and going out. Plus, be ready for a shaky steering wheel. It's not covered too much in the beginners guide, but a lot of people are always having trouble with wheel vibrations and front end shakes. It is part the age, and part the poor steering design Toyota used on these and fixed in the next generations. Some have thrown thousands of dollars at these problems and still have them. The only reasonable solution is to make sure your rig is safe (replace bad joints) and live with it.

Now that said, the 3rd gen is a great platform and if you like to mod things, the sky is the limit. I know I have spent over my vehicles value in mods and maintenance and it doesn't bother me at all. I like to get my hands dirty, I like the "look" of these rigs and bang for your buck they are probably one of the best out there for what they can do for how little you spend. I think if it's a money thing for you, and you are reasonably able to wrench on your rig, then a 3rd gen is still cheaper in the long run even with the maintenance, but please plan for the maintenance, because it's there! Overall I love mine and plan on keeping it for a long time, but I do envy the 4th gens and at times wish I would have held out for one. 3rd gens aren't for the faint hearted!

 

[1985taylor1925]

You have the buyers guide which is a great reference for info. The big 3rd gen issues and expenses are the timing belt, steering rack, radiator/tranny cooler. Beyond that you should be looking at general maintenance issues as with any vehicle. At 151k miles that 3rd gen should have had the timing belt changed fairly recently. If not, that would be a great point to talk down the price if youre really interested in it. If you drive it and feel any front end vibrations/clunks/looseness, that would be a sign of needed front end maintenance and would be another point to talk them down.

I picked up my 3rd gen in Ft Collins 4 years ago with 162k miles for $6k. For sale by owner, they originally had it listed at 7500, then dropped the price to 7k. I made my offer at blue book value for excellent condition which was 5300. In the end we made a deal at 6k. For the 3rd gen youre looking at, if it really is in excellent shape, with necessary maintenance done, I think 7k would be a decent price. But I would shoot to get them down to 6500.

 

[JayRolla]

Its a little high. I got my 96 years ago with 180k mileage for 5k. My buddy got his 99 2 years ago, at a dealer, 150k mileage for $6500. So try and talk them down a bit.

But like stated main issues are milkshake radiator issues, rear axle seal leaks and lower ball joint failure. Thats pretty much all that fails on these prematurely.

 

[MtnT4R]

Good call on the Buyer's Guide. It was invaluable when I was looking for my rig. I would recommend 99+ as well, for the "updates" plus it's a newer truck with hopefully lower mileage.

As far as the updates go, is there anything I am missing on the buyer's guide besides the VSC, one touch power windows, etc? In my '04 the VSC has been malfunctioning more often than working, and while a few of the bells and whistles are nice, I tend to be partial to the mechanical aspects of an older vehicle. (I love driving a 5 speed manual and would rather have the shift lever for the 4wd- the electronic one is ok but is definitely more finnicky than a manual linkage)

As far as vehicle age goes, would it make more sense to buy a newer truck with higher mileage, or an older truck with lower mileage? 150k is darn good for a '98, my '04 has 130k...

 

[JayRolla]

I would say lower mileage is better if you dont care about how the older ones interiors are a little dated. The multimode 4wd on the newer ones are not that bad, just a little mod to disable it when offroading if need be.

 

[gamefreakgc]

As far as the updates go, is there anything I am missing on the buyer's guide besides the VSC, one touch power windows, etc? In my '04 the VSC has been malfunctioning more often than working, and while a few of the bells and whistles are nice, I tend to be partial to the mechanical aspects of an older vehicle. (I love driving a 5 speed manual and would rather have the shift lever for the 4wd- the electronic one is ok but is definitely more finnicky than a manual linkage)

As far as vehicle age goes, would it make more sense to buy a newer truck with higher mileage, or an older truck with lower mileage? 150k is darn good for a '98, my '04 has 130k...

98's and older don't have good cup holders, and the process to swap out the console for a newer one is very involved. A small thing but will drive you nuts when your drink spills on your hand as you shift.

Just a comparison: the 5VZ-FE in the 3rd gens only has 183 HP stock. It's a bit underpowered. Going from your 1GR-FE with 245 HP down to that will make it feel like a slug.

8k is high. However, Manuals are rare in good condition. Most of the time people only sell a 5-speed after the engine has run its course and is failing. I paid 7k for my Supercharged 4Runner in good condition with 190k, the supercharged alone (even used) is worth 1.5k - 2k.

 

[MtnT4R]

Here's the link to the listing if you all want to take a look:
Cars for Sale: 1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 in COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80915: Sport Utility Details - 380534215 - AutoTrader.com

 

[viceversa]

Here's the link to the listing if you all want to take a look:
Cars for Sale: 1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 in COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80915: Sport Utility Details - 380534215 - AutoTrader.com

Looks pretty good from the ad but like buying any used car...demand all of the service records and a carfax. A dealership especially should provide this at no charge. If no service records are available then make it seem like a deal breaker in turn allowing you some bargaining room if its the one you really want.

 

[MtnT4R]

Looks pretty good from the ad but like buying any used car...demand all of the service records and a carfax. A dealership especially should provide this at no charge. If no service records are available then make it seem like a deal breaker in turn allowing you some bargaining room if its the one you really want.

Well said. However, DO NOT trust Carfax. Its absolutely worth your time to run the VIN by your insurance company to make sure. After I drove home with my '04, State Farm wanted to know about the 3 wrecks the car had been in. Apparently shops report to Carfax on a voluntary basis, and in my case I got burned.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Well said. However, DO NOT trust Carfax. Its absolutely worth your time to run the VIN by your insurance company to make sure. After I drove home with my '04, State Farm wanted to know about the 3 wrecks the car had been in. Apparently shops report to Carfax on a voluntary basis, and in my case I got burned.

Carfax also doesn't list service unless by a dealer, and even that is voluntary. Most used vehicles from the 90's will say absolutely nothing.

If you're not in a hurry, if I were you I'd hold out for another one. 8k really is overpriced, and I'm talking NorCal where 4Runners are treated like gold overpriced. I waited about 3 months for mine and couldn't be happier.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Yep. I've been saying it as loud as I can here for years:

CARFAX DOES NOT show collisions by default.

I've owned my truck 12 years. I've been in 3 non critical collisions but each was over $3000 to fix. My Carfax shows none of them.

The only way to detect collisions is go to a body shop or mechanic who is capable of spotting repair work and have him check it out.

That is the only way. And if you read the medium or fine print on Carfax you will never see them promise to "detect every accident the car has been in". Far from it in reality.

I've fallen for the Carfax thing before and although it is good for detecting bad titles (usually) and other BS claims by the seller, it doesn't do much for accident detection.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

You guys are gunna cry at my price, haha. 97, 150K miles, 4wd limited w/ locker, $4500. No maintenance records but it was in decent shape.

 

[T4R2014]

Awesome thanks! We don't have a nice resource like that, just a bunch of fragmented threads for 4th Gens.

Yeah its a 4x4- its crazy how much value these trucks hold, and for good reason. Unfortunately my trade in value will be about $8k if I'm lucky, so I'd like a little negotiating room if I can find it.

What is your preference for '99s over the '98s?(I'm reading the buyers guide now)

The 5-speed is quite rare. Don't let the 99+ hype deter you from buying it. Mechanicals are no different from a 96-98 but you get some fancy cupholders in the 99+. The main advantage for the 99+ is the multimode transfer case in the Limited's, but it is only available with automatic if you are willing to have that.

 

[viceversa]

Well said. However, DO NOT trust Carfax. Its absolutely worth your time to run the VIN by your insurance company to make sure. After I drove home with my '04, State Farm wanted to know about the 3 wrecks the car had been in. Apparently shops report to Carfax on a voluntary basis, and in my case I got burned.

Good to know! Also if you haven't already, sign up on the Toyota Owners site to check the VIN for any additional service records which might be posted

Toyota Owners Official Web Site: Service Coupons, Owner's Manuals, Service Scheduling And More

edit: just looked up the VIN for the 98 you are looking at. No service records are posted unfortunately.

 

[Kanger328]

A lot of good feedback here, especially what Mojave said. I love my 3rd gen, but I've had to do ALOT of maintenance. Fortunately, I'm pretty handy and did most of the work myself saving me quite a bit of $$$. For that price tho, I'd suggest just going for another 4th gen. I know you said your budget is tight, but I've seen earlier year 4th gens go for not much more. You can't deny the benefits of a newer model. I'd suggest a 3rd gen if you're really into off roading or if you can get it for way cheaper than a 4th. I got mine for $2,500, but it took a bit of patience to find the right deal. If you can, wait it out if the dealer won't budge much on price.

 

[gamefreakgc]

You guys are gunna cry at my price, haha. 97, 150K miles, 4wd limited w/ locker, $4500. No maintenance records but it was in decent shape.

I honestly did think about flying/driving out of state to pick one up for waaay cheaper. One showed up in Montana that was spotless, had 120kish on the clock and was supercharged starting at 6k. Had lots of mods and improvements too. The downside is California's smog laws are so strict... they have all these extra rules for out of state vehicles and I'd probably have to take half the stuff off of it.

But then again, our wages are much higher out here so I suppose it evens out! I make more but I have to spend more for the same stuff.