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BrianSD_42
New member
What's hard about doing it is this .....
You can't edit it. Its stuck at $500 even if you want to lower it.
Sorry but price in the title is wrong as long it remains uneditable. If you edit the thread title it still shows as it was originally written in the section it was posted.
nevada
Senior Member
the buyer can just as easily ask for all of that info. if they are really interested, they will.
By the same token I can make a for sale just saying "FS: wheel". If buyers want info they can ask..
nevada
Senior Member
you're right they can. they wont, because its a terrible ad. nothing will sell, the thread will die. what is the problem with that? write a good ad, and it will work. why force people to do it a specific way?
I 100% agree with you. But we see some dumb-ass ads.
But "I" do feel we need to have some type of guidelines for everyone.
Dusty Driftwood
New member
The current rules were debated and installed because enough people got tired of the lax (read shitty) classified postings that people were making. Sadly, many people that try to sell things through this site do not even understand marketing 101. Their poor planning/development of their listings made the classified section a pain to deal with.
The forum as a whole is here for the users. In the particular instance of the classifieds section, the user interface needed to be upgraded. Since individuals post the threads, guidelines needed to be established for those that want to sell something so the transactions were easier to expedite. The rules are here for the buyers, not the sellers.
I think that is telling you to remove the requirement of listing price in the title. But, keep the rest of the rules in place and enforced, including the requirement of listing price somewhere in the thread. FWIW, I voted keep the rules the same, because I think they're on spot and no where near as strict as some of the other sites I've been on. My only gripe is that more threads should be deleted if they don't adhere to the pre-determined rules.
BrianSD_42
New member
As I said before ... As long as the site has fixed (eg non editable titles) it is a bad idea to require a price in the title.
I'm all for requiring price just not in the title.
I'm all for requiring price just not in the title.
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DeathCougar
New member
As a high volume seller, I think the rules are perfect just the way they are. The only thing I would change is the price in the title requirement, because it drives away potential buyers before they have a chance to see what they are buying.
As for removing price, pictures, etc etc I think its quite silly to remove all that information. It should absolutely be required. The only exception would be part out threads, since obviously you cannot take pictures of every single part of the vehicle. However, even part out threads should have pictures. One of each corner of the vehicle, few interior shots, and an engine shot go a LONG way in helping people see the condition of parts as well as what parts are/are not available. I can't imagine posting "Parting 2001 Sport" that was wrecked in the front without putting up pictures and getting a thousand requests a day for the Scoop hood.
As for individual requirements:
B) All Threads must contain the following information
---1) What is for sale/trade (model, specs, etc.) -This is a given
---2) Condition This should also be a given, but ties to #5
---3) Price/What you want to trade for What's the second most asked question after "Pics?" How much! And be sure to know what shipping is going to cost, or have an idea at least
---4) Location of item -Another necessity, local pickup is sometimes an option, and people want to know "Where are you located"
---5) At least one picture of the item for sale or for trade -The number one selling point. A picture is worth 1000 words!
I think the 5 above should be MINIMUM in a for sale thread (that isn't a part out). The more information the buyers have the better, and its up to YOU, the SELLER, to provide it. It cuts down on thread clutter, as well as having the same questions asked over and over and over.
My $.02
As for removing price, pictures, etc etc I think its quite silly to remove all that information. It should absolutely be required. The only exception would be part out threads, since obviously you cannot take pictures of every single part of the vehicle. However, even part out threads should have pictures. One of each corner of the vehicle, few interior shots, and an engine shot go a LONG way in helping people see the condition of parts as well as what parts are/are not available. I can't imagine posting "Parting 2001 Sport" that was wrecked in the front without putting up pictures and getting a thousand requests a day for the Scoop hood.
As for individual requirements:
B) All Threads must contain the following information
---1) What is for sale/trade (model, specs, etc.) -This is a given
---2) Condition This should also be a given, but ties to #5
---3) Price/What you want to trade for What's the second most asked question after "Pics?" How much! And be sure to know what shipping is going to cost, or have an idea at least
---4) Location of item -Another necessity, local pickup is sometimes an option, and people want to know "Where are you located"
---5) At least one picture of the item for sale or for trade -The number one selling point. A picture is worth 1000 words!
I think the 5 above should be MINIMUM in a for sale thread (that isn't a part out). The more information the buyers have the better, and its up to YOU, the SELLER, to provide it. It cuts down on thread clutter, as well as having the same questions asked over and over and over.
My $.02
DeathCougar
New member
Another reason to have all these requirements, as I touched on in the bottom of my post, is clutter. If we aren't going to require at least a bare minimum of these rules, people could essentially post willy nilly. Meaning I (or anyone) could multiple threads, all of different things for sale with very vague titles or descriptions. It would essentially be the same as spamming the forum, as the ads would always be on top with questions like "Pictures?" "How much?" "Where are you located?" "How much does shipping cost?" etc.
Those end up being the most asked questions in threads that contain little to no information about the item that is selling. If you want to sell things in a timely manner and cut down on flakes/question askers, put as much information as the buyer will need to make an informed purchase in your ad
Those end up being the most asked questions in threads that contain little to no information about the item that is selling. If you want to sell things in a timely manner and cut down on flakes/question askers, put as much information as the buyer will need to make an informed purchase in your ad
the great him
Elite Member
as someone who has been a casualty of a delete thread i can agree and understand all of this and think its fair as it is right now. i think you have done a good job of suming it up right here, i would only ask/suggest that when a thread gets delete, that the OP of the thread be sent a PM stating why(specifics)so he/she can make due adjustments, also let them know that the thread is not completely gone and can be reposted and given a chance to make said adjustments....
last year i was trying to sell my 4runner, and i had my add pulled with not so much as a "your in violation" notice ect. i just woke up one day and it was gone... and the mod who deleted it made no attempt to be nice or understanding about it, more over they were a jerk about it and would not tell me why it was deleted other than it was in violation of the "classified section rules"... having never sold anything on here before, or having no need to read through the rules for the specific sub forum i didnt even know they existed... -i had and have however read the forum rules and guidelines when i joined the sight, something id venture to say that probably 80% or more of the members never bother to do, even the mods(as i can pick out several infractions i see daily and routinely). i think the focus needs to be more on enforcing the few basic rules, and not making new ones... this is not the US government or your local and state governments, stop making more rules and start enforcing the few that we have. the mods complain about not having enough time to enforce the rules, so why are you making more? your just making more work for yourselves... and if you still are finding that you do not have enough time to help out and give warnings and or constructive criticism to the members try adding some more mods -senior members who are consistently helpful and active in the forum... i see many mods in the 4th and 5th gen sections who are active, but not so many in the older sections. and i have talked with several mods who have and continue to admit that they are hardly active here anymore because of this type of stuff... i dont know if the admin has to make someone a mod or not i dont know how it all works so i might just be off line here, and if so -foot in mouth. also i have a feeling that their should be an equal amount of mods in each section per capita ie an ratio of mods to members per section... cause i know i hardly ever venture out of the 3rd gen section, cause well i dont own a 4th gen or a 5th gen or yeah... so i dont wander over there that often, im sure the same goes for the other gen guys... most of their main focus is in the sub forums they are into, sections like classifieds and general discus. and the other sub forums are gonna get the "accumulation effect" of all the mods coming in from time to time. maybe their should be a rotating schedule of "mods on duty" ie rotating assignments in the other sections, where 3 or 4 mods will browse the posts through out the day(at their convenience) for infractions and fix/adjust/inform/ban as necessary.
now i know some of the mods are gonna say "but thats making use do more work or devote even more time to this...." ect. yeah, yeah it is, and your a mod, so suck it up, and do your job. im not trying to be an a$$ or a jerk, but with power comes responsibility, you have things to do, and priorities, getting to delete threads and ban people also comes with the expectation that you help out where no one else can or others dont... im not trying to make it sound like the mods are all lazy here and have slacked, because i know you all put a lot of work into this sight, and have greatly helped organize and clean up the site and help make it what it is, but what really makes this place what it is, is the members, we the people of T4R, not the mods, so lets not forget that. its just as easy to send someone a corrective message or to do a simple correction as it is to defend your actions, and blow people off and delete threads, because in the end preventive maintenance is always better, easier, and lest costly, than reactive maintenance...
that is just my thoughts on the topic
DeathCougar
New member
As a mod on another popular Toyota forum, PM'ing every single person explaining why we deleted their thread would take all day. Its NOT a job, its volunteer work and we aren't there to babysit people who can't read the rules. If your thread gets deleted, you didn't read/follow the rules. It's pretty simple. No mod should ever have to PM a member and explain why THEIR thread got deleted.
Rotating mods, or creating any kind of schedule is impractical. People have lives, and as such cannot be chained to a computer waiting for someone to make a rules violation so they can spend another 10 minutes explaining to them what they should already have known. Personal responsibility is the name of the game on forums, read the rules, follow the rules, and you will be fine. In over 1200 posts on this forum, ZERO of mine have been deleted. So I ask you; what makes more sense/takes less time. A mod having to email/PM someone when they screw up? Or someone ACTUALLY reading and following the (very few) rules there are?
Rotating mods, or creating any kind of schedule is impractical. People have lives, and as such cannot be chained to a computer waiting for someone to make a rules violation so they can spend another 10 minutes explaining to them what they should already have known. Personal responsibility is the name of the game on forums, read the rules, follow the rules, and you will be fine. In over 1200 posts on this forum, ZERO of mine have been deleted. So I ask you; what makes more sense/takes less time. A mod having to email/PM someone when they screw up? Or someone ACTUALLY reading and following the (very few) rules there are?
BrianSD_42
New member
So just to be clear ... The consensus among non-mods is:
- please drop the price requirement from the title because once its set T4R forum technology does not allow an edit AND this is hard on seller since prices are fluid.
AND the consensus from quite a few mods (with exceptions) seems to be:
NO.
- please drop the price requirement from the title because once its set T4R forum technology does not allow an edit AND this is hard on seller since prices are fluid.
AND the consensus from quite a few mods (with exceptions) seems to be:
NO.
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BrianSD_42
New member
I voted the rules are too strict but I think the pole is flawed.
The only rule I support changing is the price requirement since T4R thread titles are near forever locked once created by a normal permissions level user.
The only rule I support changing is the price requirement since T4R thread titles are near forever locked once created by a normal permissions level user.
the great him
Elite Member
I agree and if that's the way its going to be then that's the way it needs to be. I'm all about consistency. You can't have it one way but do things another way... Either fallow the rules and enforce them on everyone all the time every time or dont do it at all. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels "picked on" when an add or post gets pulled for one thing and then you go back and spot 10-20 others within 5min of scanning that should of also be pulled for the same infractions... Consistency is the big key here guys
nevada
Senior Member
if you don't have the time do be considerate, don't take the time to delete the thread. also, if you're going to be a dick, you shouldn't even be a mod. im not saying you personally, just in general.
there are a few mods on this site that are power hungry, and shouldn't be in that position at all.. its clear with how they do their "job".
BrianSD_42
New member
You know the attitude of "we don't have to email you , we don't have to do this or this , we just delete"
Has quite a negative affect on the community. Quite a few a people have left this site because it, specifically because of the mods on this site.
Many went to TacomaWorld but many also are going to another new 4Runner site (which is cloning data over, and grabbing members) ... My point is every time I ask someone why are they leaving they have almost always mentioned the mods on this forum.
I believe most mods are good and (more so now) realize it is easy to mis-perceive something since we don't see how mods work on the back end ...
but still ... The policy/attitude of "if it technically qualifies for delete then I delete" is definitely perceived as total Bulls#&t and pissing a lot of people off. This deletion thing has really rubbed people the wrong way because even more Sr. members don't want to follow EVERY SINGLE rule for posting. Sometime we feel that 8 of 10 are good enough and will make a sale.
Other than that I would say mods do a great job keeping the clutter, spam down and the site organized.
Lastly, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard to institute a 3 strikes rule on the classified section. So if there are 10 rules and they only violate 2 then don't delete it. This can't possibly be that hard to do.
:thanks:
Has quite a negative affect on the community. Quite a few a people have left this site because it, specifically because of the mods on this site.
Many went to TacomaWorld but many also are going to another new 4Runner site (which is cloning data over, and grabbing members) ... My point is every time I ask someone why are they leaving they have almost always mentioned the mods on this forum.
I believe most mods are good and (more so now) realize it is easy to mis-perceive something since we don't see how mods work on the back end ...
but still ... The policy/attitude of "if it technically qualifies for delete then I delete" is definitely perceived as total Bulls#&t and pissing a lot of people off. This deletion thing has really rubbed people the wrong way because even more Sr. members don't want to follow EVERY SINGLE rule for posting. Sometime we feel that 8 of 10 are good enough and will make a sale.
Other than that I would say mods do a great job keeping the clutter, spam down and the site organized.
Lastly, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard to institute a 3 strikes rule on the classified section. So if there are 10 rules and they only violate 2 then don't delete it. This can't possibly be that hard to do.
:thanks:
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DeathCougar
New member
It has nothing to do with "being a dick". A mod shouldn't have to babysit members on a website. There are thousands of people, with thousands of posts, its really quite impossible to PM every one of them when they choose not to follow the rules.
If you don't have time to read and follow the rules, don't take the time to post a thread.
In all my years on forums, its generally always the same types of people doing the complaining (not saying you). When something doesn't go their way or a thread gets deleted, the mods are "big jerks on power trips". Repeat ad naseum on every forum, ever. As the old saying goes; you can please some of the people all of the time, or you can please all of the people some of the time. There is always going to be SOMEONE who doesn't like you or the job you are doing.
nevada
Senior Member
actually that is the mods job. they are babysitters.
I know exactly how it is, im a mod on an MC site.
also, if that there are that many people breaking that many rules(that they cant be notified), maybe something else needs to be changed. add more mods, or adjust some of the rules. taking the time to inform the people of WHAT they did wrong will go a LONG ways toward keeping them from doing it again.
just blindly deleting threads/posts IS a dick move. its negative and will lead to animosity, as is seen in this thread, and MANY others.
