Welfare state

[bofa]

Stop letting corporations screw us so they can screw us? :doh:

Government of the people, my ass.

Corporations produce jobs. Jobs produce revenue to local, state, and fed governments and contribute to GDP like no other source of income. IMO corp tax rates should be zero unless they are hoarding cash or violating labor laws. You want more jobs? Make it attractive for businesses to set up shop in the US.

While I'm personally not a big fan of any negative ETRs, corp or individual, this is an accounting measure. It's no different than the government directly subsidizing some programs or people. The difference is that it's easier to qualify people using the primary source of records for income than creating yet another entity to redistribute wealth. That and the fact that "Department of Redistribution of Wealth" doesn't look too good on a ballot.

 

[ndcent]

Corporations produce jobs. Jobs produce revenue to local, state, and fed governments and contribute to GDP like no other source of income. IMO corp tax rates should be zero unless they are hoarding cash or violating labor laws. You want more jobs? Make it attractive for businesses to set up shop in the US.

While I'm personally not a big fan of any negative ETRs, corp or individual, this is an accounting measure. It's no different than the government directly subsidizing some programs or people. The difference is that it's easier to qualify people using the primary source of records for income than creating yet another entity to redistribute wealth. That and the fact that "Department of Redistribution of Wealth" doesn't look too good on a ballot.

Thank you for a reasoned response. Regarding attracting businesses to set up/remain in the US, with the commonly held notion that we aren't competitive with the rest of the world tax-wise is wrong.

Corporate America Pays Higher Tax Abroad: Study

 

[TheeMikeB]

Speaking of welfare and all those dirty lazy single moms sucking the US dry with their need to feed their children, you really have to consider these leeches...

1) Verizon Communications. Profits: $19.8 billion. Effective tax rate: -3.8%
2) General Electric. Profits: $19.6 billion. Effective tax rate: -18.9%
3) Boeing. Profits: $14.9 billion. Effective tax rate: -5.5%
4) NextEra Energy, North America’s largest solar and wind power operator, based in Florida. Profits: $8.8 billion. Effective tax rate: -2%
5) American Electric Power, electrical utility based in Ohio. Profits: $8.2 billion. Effective tax rate: -6.4%
6) Pacific Gas & Electric, California electrical utility. Profits: $6 billion. Effective tax rate: -8.4%
7) Apache, oil and gas company based in Houston. Profits: $6 billion. Effective tax rate: -0.3%
8) Consolidated Edison, New York energy company. Profits: $5.9 billion. Effective tax rate: -1.3%
9) El Paso, Houston-based energy company that runs the country’s largest natural gas pipeline. Profits: $4.6 billion. Effective tax rate: -0.9%
10) CenterPoint Energy, electric and gas utility based in Houston. Profits: $3.1 billion. Effective tax rate: -11.3%. -
See more at: Republican Voters Are Angry About All The Wrong Things

I'll take it your are a progressive democrat/liberal. Having said that...

Conservatives never said there isn't an issue with 'Corony Capitalism' and corruption in the government. However, it's a bi-partisan issue and we should all be outraged at all of it, including items you listed above. .

It doesn't end there, for instance let's talk about Diane Feinstein's husband Richard Blum. How about all the money he is making from the CA high speed rail as well as his real estate company getting the contract to sell off all the post office building closures.

On the flip side if there is corruption in the government you can be damn sure there is corruption with the entitlements and people abusing welfare, food stamps, etc...

I"m sure we could fill endless threads with the corruption in government. So I ask you this... why should we expand the government and make it bigger? Why trust them with your healthcare? Why continue with this massive spending and taxation? We should all be outraged and critical of everything the government does and question every motive.

The National Debt alone should scare every American. Your great Hope and Change Prez... ripped Bush on his spending and called it "irresponsible' and 'unpatriotic'. Obama Speach Meanwhile is on track to increase it by over 60%.

The big picture here is that you need to look at who Obama associates himself with, he is is a Socialist period. He was mentored by Frank Marshall Davis and his buddy David Axelrod was mentored by by the Canters. You can't ignore all the facts that this president is a left wing extremest and pushing us into a socialist regime using tyranny and bypassing congress. The current republican party (with the exception of a few like Mike Lee and Ted Cruz) is too weak and stupid to do anything about it.

I don't have a problem helping those that truly need it, but government assistance should be a crutch to get you back on your feet. It should NOT be your caregiver and sole provider or healthcare provider that is not what it is for. Nobody here is 'entitled' to anything except liberty and opportunity.

 

[bofa]

Thank you for a reasoned response. Regarding attracting businesses to set up/remain in the US, with the commonly held notion that we aren't competitive with the rest of the world tax-wise is wrong.

Corporate America Pays Higher Tax Abroad: Study

The flaw with your assessment here is that this considers US-based companies with foreign operations. Many companies are opting to move their base to other developed countries or set up separate entities in undeveloped countries where the tax rates are lower and the red tape is easier to navigate. My company moved it's headquarters overseas a few years ago for this very reason. If you take a look some other operations you'll see that the factories or service centers are not under their corporate brand, but under a company registered in the local country and contracted as a service provider to the parent company.

To further my point on the zero corp tax rate, look at the last part of that article. All those major companies are still US based because of their ETR. Imagine how many companies would come running back if it didn't take an act of congress or mult-million-dollar lobbyist and campaign contributions to get the same treatment...

 

[nevada]

The thread title is "Welfare State."

and how is any of that welfare?

they are at least contributing. while I don't like to see the negative numbers, those companies are at least adding to the fund.
that's not the case with welfare. and such, it has nothing to do with the original topic. you had nothing to add, so you changed the subject.

 

[ndcent]

and how is any of that welfare?

they are at least contributing. while I don't like to see the negative numbers, those companies are at least adding to the fund.
that's not the case with welfare. and such, it has nothing to do with the original topic. you had nothing to add, so you changed the subject.

It's called "corporate welfare."

I could have started a new thread but I found it generally topical. You find it disagreeable and inconvenient, get over it.

 

[nevada]

It's called "corporate welfare."

I could have started a new thread but I found it generally topical. You find it disagreeable and inconvenient, get over it.

perhaps you don't understand the meaning of welfare.

 

[1engineer]

Speaking of welfare and all those dirty lazy single moms sucking the US dry with their need to feed their children, you really have to consider these leeches...

1) Verizon Communications. Profits: $19.8 billion. Effective tax rate: -3.8%
2) General Electric. Profits: $19.6 billion. Effective tax rate: -18.9%
3) Boeing. Profits: $14.9 billion. Effective tax rate: -5.5%
4) NextEra Energy, North America’s largest solar and wind power operator, based in Florida. Profits: $8.8 billion. Effective tax rate: -2%
5) American Electric Power, electrical utility based in Ohio. Profits: $8.2 billion. Effective tax rate: -6.4%
6) Pacific Gas & Electric, California electrical utility. Profits: $6 billion. Effective tax rate: -8.4%
7) Apache, oil and gas company based in Houston. Profits: $6 billion. Effective tax rate: -0.3%
8) Consolidated Edison, New York energy company. Profits: $5.9 billion. Effective tax rate: -1.3%
9) El Paso, Houston-based energy company that runs the country’s largest natural gas pipeline. Profits: $4.6 billion. Effective tax rate: -0.9%
10) CenterPoint Energy, electric and gas utility based in Houston. Profits: $3.1 billion. Effective tax rate: -11.3%. -
See more at: Republican Voters Are Angry About All The Wrong Things

My friend, Two things make this different:
1. If I add all of these up I get $100B or so. If I divide it by number of Americans I get about $303 dollars per every American. Sorry but big whoop.
2. I have a choice to buy or not from these guys you listed. Key point: A CHOICE. I could get propane, solar or move if it gets too expensive. I have no choice on taxes. None at all nor can I have a say on where my money goes. Right now, with my tax rate, I am supporting several individuals. Some need it, some don't. We need to fix it so the "some don't" people get a job. Yes, they might have to be trained for some jobs but the CCC programs back in the day worked wonders. I understand your argument but it's nothing more than a deflection from the real issue. Same as talking about climate change.

 

[jgue467]

Don't care how people pay for their insurance But

I'm tired of seeing folks in hospitals getting FREE service when I have to shell out a hospital co-pay, then have my insurance pays some more, then get a bill from the hospital for part the insurance didn't pay. And the losers with no insurance just get to walk out happy go lucky. How do we fix this? Don't care what we call it or which p-party gets to add the cap feather. Everyone should pay their own way-period. That is what's wrong with this country-everyone looking for a handout-individuals and corporations-no integrity.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Ask Australia how raising corporate taxes are treating them at the moment. Global corporations are fleeing the country faster than rats on a sinking ship; I guess someone wants to make it a prison island once more.

With utilities, for the most part, they are a regulated monopoly. So I do have choices, but they are few, with each having their merits and drawbacks. With the monopoly in place, the barrier to entry for alternative forms of energy as well as other companies remains quite high.

At my favorite eatery the prices have increased 1.8% across the board on everything. I don't have to tell anyone here the reason behind such.

 

[TheeMikeB]

I'm tired of seeing folks in hospitals getting FREE service when I have to shell out a hospital co-pay, then have my insurance pays some more, then get a bill from the hospital for part the insurance didn't pay. And the losers with no insurance just get to walk out happy go lucky. How do we fix this? Don't care what we call it or which p-party gets to add the cap feather. Everyone should pay their own way-period. That is what's wrong with this country-everyone looking for a handout-individuals and corporations-no integrity.

It will only get worse with amnesty. Even though Obunghole keeps saying it's for 'hightech workers' we all know it isn't. He is securing lifelong democratic welfare votes and to suggest otherwise is 'racist'. Meanwhile the USDA is funding ads in mexico for food stamps and welfare.

Anybody listen to Mark Levin or read anything of his?

Wanna read something eye opening? Take 15 min and read this....

Ameritopia chapter 1

 

[1engineer]

Willful stupidity in the Obamacare debate

Willful stupidity - the one size fits all answer to Republican policies.
The CBO report - willful stupidity.
Climate change denial - willful stupidity.
Repealing the ACA through government shutdown - willful stupidity.
Defunding the non-existent ACORN - willful stupidity.
Prohibiting non-existent federal funding for abortion - willful stupidity.
Teaching creationism as science - willful stupidity.
Trickle Down Economics - willful stupidity.
The Reinhart-Rogoff austerity findings based on bad data from a spreadsheet - willful stupidity.

It works all the time.

BTW, if you want to spend a little time debating "Climate Change" by all means please do. Six years ago I was on the fence. Neither a skeptic nor a believer. I have spent the last six years educating myself on this topic. I am just an engineer but I have gleaned enough information to hold my own in most any discussion on climate change. So, anytime you or the others want to discuss it I'm here. I understand though if you don't want to tackle this issue. A friend of mine for many years who is a liberal finally told me his position after a argument one night. He was so frustrated with me he finally said "Don't you ever believe in something just because people like you feel the same way?" I just shook my head and left.

 

[TheeMikeB]

BTW, if you want to spend a little time debating "Climate Change" by all means please do. Six years ago I was on the fence. Neither a skeptic nor a believer. I have spent the last six years educating myself on this topic. I am just an engineer but I have gleaned enough information to hold my own in most any discussion on climate change. So, anytime you or the others want to discuss it I'm here. I understand though if you don't want to tackle this issue. A friend of mine for many years who is a liberal finally told me his position after a argument one night. He was so frustrated with me he finally said "Don't you ever believe in something just because people like you feel the same way?" I just shook my head and left.

Oh wait it's not Global Warming anymore??? How come?? LOL


The same "Climate Change Cronies" are in control of the CA 'drought'. Flushing millions of gallons of water from our reservoir into the delta and ocean to save the 'delta smelt' fish. And not allowing us to built more reservoirs because of "environmental" impact.

 

[ndcent]

BTW, if you want to spend a little time debating "Climate Change" by all means please do. Six years ago I was on the fence. Neither a skeptic nor a believer. I have spent the last six years educating myself on this topic. I am just an engineer but I have gleaned enough information to hold my own in most any discussion on climate change. So, anytime you or the others want to discuss it I'm here. I understand though if you don't want to tackle this issue. A friend of mine for many years who is a liberal finally told me his position after a argument one night. He was so frustrated with me he finally said "Don't you ever believe in something just because people like you feel the same way?" I just shook my head and left.

I honestly don't know tits from asses on climate change.

What's your opinion of it, in a nutshell?

 

[MyHigh]

My opinion on climate change is, the earth has been around for what? Something like 2billion years and in that time it's gone through cycles of hot and cold. Ice ages and heat waves. Yes I'm sure we as humans are going to speed or slow these changes but ultimately the earth has the final move and nothing we do will prevent these natural cycles of change, we are just pissin in the wind if we think that we have the ability to stabilize the climate.

 

[TheeMikeB]

I honestly don't know tits from asses on climate change.

What's your opinion of it, in a nutshell?

If you don't know anything about it then why are you posting that denial of it is 'willful stupidity'?

 

[1engineer]

I honestly don't know tits from asses on climate change.

What's your opinion of it, in a nutshell?

In a nutshell?
Climate has changed and the globe has warmed throughout history. Speaking for the last 150 years, the average surface temp has gotten warmer, by about 0.2 degrees C on average. In the last 17 years we have not gotten any warmer. None. We are still nowhere near the "Medieval Warm Period" of 700 years ago. My opinion is the climate changes due to a myriad of things in nature. Has man caused it to change? I think locally, sure. Look at China or even LA years ago. Overall? Maybe but very small amounts. I looked at over 90 climate models produced over the last few decades and every single one does not agree with actual observations. Every one predicts the earth warming much more than it has. So yes, I believe in climate change and we must be good stewards of this planet. Now, someone define "good stewards" lol. THAT is the question. I think the biggest disagreement is what exactly will hurt the planet. I do know that CO2 has went up and the temp stayed the same so that myth is busted. Plus the CO2 was 5X this level once upon a time.

If you really want to question what is right though here is a big quandary:
1000 years ago we went through the Medieval Warm Period coming off a long cool period. This is the first prosperous era. It was warm enough to grow lots of food. 500 or so years ago was the Little Ice Age. Things were not so good then for man. Lots of people died and food was scarce. So, for man, warmer (to a point) is better for food production and animal population. Colder is not so good for food and animals. Do you really think man is smart enough to figure this out? Looking at our leaders today I don't think so. Now, good luck finding a true temperature graph of actual real temperatures from the past. Over the last several years everyone has mutilated it. They exist but must be taken with a grain of salt and compared to others. Just because it is has a government department on the graph does not make it so. You can actually compare the history of the earth's temperature done 20 years ago to now and there is a big difference. What changed? Politics is all. History didn't change. Motivations did.

 

[RunninInGA]

In a nutshell?
SNIP
What changed? Politics is all. History didn't change. Motivations did.

This.

 

[ndcent]

What do liberals hope to gain from climate change?

Eta: what not who.

 

[MyHigh]

I don't think it's a matter of who, but rather what, and that be money