What makes a Toyota so reliable?

[bigdon]

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I'm your typical shade tree mechanic,
and have owned and worked on Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Nissan vehicles,
but I do not know very much about Toyota, even though I now drive a 4Runner.

We all know some Joe Blow that owns a Chevy and thinks Chevy engines
are the best built in the world, and a John Smith that owns a Ford and thinks
the same about Fords. What are some specifics, particularly about the
Toyota engines that separates them from other manufacturers?

What makes them so reliable? I'm looking for input possibly from the real
gear heads here, apart from general "opinions" like "well MY 4runner has
300,000 miles on it, so it's well built", because I've seen that with other manufacturers as well.
Unless we're talking about the overall majority of vehicles on the road of
one particular manufacturer, you can't say one is better than the other.

I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine.

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to an in depth discussion on this.

 

[fourwd1]

My 84 only has 170K on it, so it's too soon tell tell if it's reliable.
The engine in my 83 has about 400K on it, but it's from a Buick.

 

[ALLEGRO]

In a nut-shell, it is quality control of all aspects.

Toyota has incredible engineering, research and development programs that go into every part (well maybe not so much the accelerator pedals LOL) and the end-result is a quality "piece" that seems to last and last.

My first Toyota was a 1971 Corolla that I drove the heck out of for 210,000 miles. I never thought it would go 100,000 but was not surprised with all that followed. Yeah I threw some parts at it, but I also raced SCCA on the weekends and drove it every single day.

Again, I think that they do take pride in what they build, are brave enough to put quality first, even over price, and build the things with long duration in mind.

JMHO

 

[Duhockey]

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I'm your typical shade tree mechanic,
and have owned and worked on Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Nissan vehicles,
but I do not know very much about Toyota, even though I now drive a 4Runner.

We all know some Joe Blow that owns a Chevy and thinks Chevy engines
are the best built in the world, and a John Smith that owns a Ford and thinks
the same about Fords. What are some specifics, particularly about the
Toyota engines that separates them from other manufacturers?

What makes them so reliable? I'm looking for input possibly from the real
gear heads here, apart from general "opinions" like "well MY 4runner has
300,000 miles on it, so it's well built", because I've seen that with other manufacturers as well.
Unless we're talking about the overall majority of vehicles on the road of
one particular manufacturer, you can't say one is better than the other.

I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine.

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to an in depth discussion on this.

How about this... go out and count every 3rd gen 4runner you see on the road and then count every dodge, ford or chevy SUV on the road that was made between 96-2002,

its my belief from what I have seen in Denver Colorado and my travels across the country, that there are more 3rd Gen 4runners still on the road than dodge, chevy, and ford Suvs made between 96 and 2002 combined...

Seriously, how many Chevy Blazers, Dodge Durangos, Ford Exploders from that age group do you see?? Very few, especially in a tough environment like Colorado, and the ones that are surviving are not nearly in the shape that our 4runners are in.

the only SUV/4wheel drive from that era that I see as many as the 3rd Gen 4runners are the Jeep Wranglers... but Jeep has had that basic build going for 60+ years and has it perfected.

and thats just the 3rd gen 4runners... we havent touched the other Toyota models yet!
:thumb3:

(side note: this is a smaller sample, but every single one of my friends cars from 96-00 have died or HAD to have been replaced since I bought my 4runner, Im at 190k so far)

 

[074.0Runner]

The gas pedals...

 

[Uneek]

Historically, Kaizen, the continuous improvement philosophy and cost cutting not being a priority.

 

[Caffeine Power]

We bought a 3rd gen (2000) new from Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Emailed them (and many other Toy dealers) from here in Wisconsin, made the deposit, booked the flight and rested easy. Two weeks later we flew in and the salesman met us at the airport, drove us to the dealer and we finished paying and drove it away.

It is our 2nd 4Runner. Our 1990 (also bought new) was a solid truck, not so much a family vehicle platform, and I do miss it. I suspect we'd still have it, if it hadn't been rear-ended by a large tow truck doing 40 mph while I was stopped at a light. In the 170,000 miles we drove, it never let us down or gave us cause for concern. Other than consumables like the clutch, (manual trans) brake pads, rotors, tires and fluids it showed us reliability to the degree that we bought the 2000.

The 2000 has been less reliable. It behaved itself until a little over 70,000 miles ( a bit over 2 years ago) when the rear differential self-destructed. A month later the transmission (again 5 speed manual) let go. Our local dealer has been the only hands to touch our 4Runner. I was puzzled, concerned and then infuriated. Puzzled because the drivetrain let go essentially all at once. Concerned because I thought it might be the tip of the iceberg. Infuriated when the service manager accused me & my wife of abusing the 4Runner off-road & pulling large loads. Other than fire roads or gravel parking lots it has never been off road. Other than a 4 x 8 trailer with some furniture it had never pulled a load. I literally had to be restrained to avoid beating the hell out of that service manager.

Since changing the transmission and differential the 2000 has behaved. Despite Toyota's current accelerator problem (put the car in neutral people!) I have made my own decision if I need to replace the 4Runner.

I won't be getting another. A Volkswagon Taureg or such, or a Nissan.

 

[JohnsD90]

I think that Toyota gets a really nice reputation which they did earn, IMO car quality peaked right around the time of the 3rd gen, when we had all the cool technology and before car makers started using crapppy plastics to make cars. They all (including toyota) have gone downhill from there, even the top of the line corvette ZR1 has plastic bumpers on it, WTF. But truthfully i feel that there are plenty of other car companies that make cars to a similar or higher quality than that of toyota, for example VW not so much in there SUV's, but their little Bettle's, Bus's, Golfs and Jetta's will go on forever, my dads 99.5 Jetta TDI has 225k miles on it, only thing that has been changed besides regular maintanence is the alternator, even the clutch is original, My 4runner has had numerous non-maintenence parts needed to be replaced.

 

[gm350reratliff]

ALL manufacturers make lemons. Some make less than others. Some handle the problem better than others ever will. No vehicle line is perfect. There are repair shops at almost every dealer to back this up. Some vehicles have flaws right from the get go with crappy design.

That being said I feel that the 4runner inparticular is pretty close to perfect. For my family anyway. I look at it as simplicity. The 4runner is pretty simple. When you keep something simple there is bound to be less problems with it.

So far loving my '08.

 

[techno]

Historically, Kaizen, the continuous improvement philosophy and cost cutting not being a priority.

The kaizen way of business management has been a huge factor in Toyota's success. They spearheaded it long before other car companies realized the potential it holds.

From wikipedia....

The Toyota Production System is known for kaizen, where all line personnel are expected to stop their moving production line in case of any abnormality and, along with their supervisor, suggest an improvement to resolve the abnormality which may initiate a kaizen.

The cycle of kaizen activity can be defined as:

* Standardize an operation
* Measure the standardized operation (find cycle time and amount of in-process inventory)
* Gauge measurements against requirements
* Innovate to meet requirements and increase productivity
* Standardize the new, improved operations
* Continue cycle ad infinitum



I used to work for a company that manufactured OE parts for Toyota. Toyota would send their industrial engineers into our factory to specifically look for process improvement opportunities. It was part of the contract. With strict process control, tighter tolerances could be achieved and waste minimized. They were very good at working with us to improve quality first, and quantity second.

Toyota still make great quality products, but I think the perceived 'drop' in quality over the past few years is actually just the competition closing the gap and coming up to the standards that Toyota has set.

 

[Burt]

Real Craftmanship

 

[SecretAgent]

Historically, Kaizen, the continuous improvement philosophy and cost cutting not being a priority.

BINGO!! the US big 3's downfall was they let the accountants run the business. that and the UAW, but that's a whole other discussion.

 

[CeliRunnerGirl]

My Toyotas!

So I have 2 Toyotas and I have owned 2 jeeps. So ill compare for ya...my first jeep was a cherokee and by the time i was selling it, it was on its 3rd engine. Not cool and super expensive. The quailty of the engines sucks! Trans not bad. Oh my atuomatic window motors went out too along with other things..that happened on both jeeps.
~My Celica has engine work done to it and im about to do more (cams) and i can still trust it to take me down to New Mexico or out to Oklahoma, my jeep would of never made it that far!!! It has never broke down and it gets amazing gas mileage!!
~My Runner I just bought exactly a month ago and I had taken it up to Aspen all weekend, took it mudding and used it to carry all my stuff. Nothing went wrong at all and for my first Toyota 4wd I felt relaxed driving up and back as oppose to my jeep who stalled at the tunnel last time i took it up! JEEP-Just Empty Evert Pocket........THIS IS TRUE!! My Toyotas......AMAZING!
Ill never go to a different car company from here on out....
Oh and PS they are both easy to work on!!! :boink:

 

[Duhockey]

So I have 2 Toyotas and I have owned 2 jeeps. So ill compare for ya...my first jeep was a cherokee and by the time i was selling it, it was on its 3rd engine. Not cool and super expensive. The quailty of the engines sucks! Trans not bad. Oh my atuomatic window motors went out too along with other things..that happened on both jeeps.
~My Celica has engine work done to it and im about to do more (cams) and i can still trust it to take me down to New Mexico or out to Oklahoma, my jeep would of never made it that far!!! It has never broke down and it gets amazing gas mileage!!
~My Runner I just bought exactly a month ago and I had taken it up to Aspen all weekend, took it mudding and used it to carry all my stuff. Nothing went wrong at all and for my first Toyota 4wd I felt relaxed driving up and back as oppose to my jeep who stalled at the tunnel last time i took it up! JEEP-Just Empty Evert Pocket........THIS IS TRUE!! My Toyotas......AMAZING!
Ill never go to a different car company from here on out....
Oh and PS they are both easy to work on!!! :boink:

I know stuff like this isnt the "gearhead" response he was looking for, but alot can be said for "peace of mind" and getting in your car and KNOWING it will start and run like it should.

 

[bigdon]

Thanks for all the replies, but those are basically all just testimonials;
Not at all what I was looking for. As I said in my original post;
"I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine."

For example...

The fact that even though Toyota uses an aluminum block, it uses cast iron cylinder sleeves.
The most important function of cylinder liners is the excellent characteristic as a sliding surface for the pistons and these four necessary points.

(1)High anti-galling properties
(2)Less wear on the cylinder liner itself
(3)Less wear on the partner piston ring
(4)Less consumption of lubricant

For all I know The big 3 do this as well, but I'd never heard of it until I started reading through Toyota forums.

Thanks again for your replies

 

[MikesToy]

As I said in my original post;
"I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine."

For example...

The fact that even though Toyota uses an aluminum block, it uses cast iron cylinder sleeves.

Are the cast iron cylinder sleeves made by Yamaha?

 

[SecretAgent]

Thanks for all the replies, but those are basically all just testimonials;
Not at all what I was looking for. As I said in my original post;
"I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine."

For example...

The fact that even though Toyota uses an aluminum block, it uses cast iron cylinder sleeves.
The most important function of cylinder liners is the excellent characteristic as a sliding surface for the pistons and these four necessary points.

(1)High anti-galling properties
(2)Less wear on the cylinder liner itself
(3)Less wear on the partner piston ring
(4)Less consumption of lubricant

For all I know The big 3 do this as well, but I'd never heard of it until I started reading through Toyota forums.

Thanks again for your replies

all aluminum engine blocks regardless of type/configuration/manufacturer use some sort of iron based cylinder liner. if you designed an aluminum block with aluminum cylinders it wouldn't last past break-in.

all manufacturers use basically the same forging/casting/stamping processes. that's not what makes toyota different. toyota, and other japanese brands, put more thought into their engineering and have much more streamlined and efficient design philosophies. their departments have more experience, and more freedom when designing a car. this allows them to build a more reliable/better made part for the same amount of money as the US automakers can. the big 3 have had to cut costs in every aspect of building a new car due to their healthcare and labor costs. they just don't have the same budget as the japanese/germans do when designing a new model, and if they do have the same/larger budget it's often not spent efficiently. i could go on and on, but i think you get the idea.

 

[Uneek]

Are the cast iron cylinder sleeves made by Yamaha?

Yamaha has been involved in Toyota high performance engines, a lot of it being the heads, but has also designed entire engines.

Some recent engines are: 2ZZ-GE in the Celica GT-S, Matrix XRS, Lotus, etc., 2UR-GSE in the Lexus IS-F and 1LR-GUE in the Lexus LF-A.

 

[MikesToy]

What makes them so reliable?

Their gas pedals. :lol: :jk:

 

[Jed]

Thanks for all the replies, but those are basically all just testimonials;
Not at all what I was looking for. As I said in my original post;
"I'm looking for specific manufacturing processes that differ from others that result in Toyota having a more reliable engine."

For example...

The fact that even though Toyota uses an aluminum block, it uses cast iron cylinder sleeves.
The most important function of cylinder liners is the excellent characteristic as a sliding surface for the pistons and these four necessary points.

(1)High anti-galling properties
(2)Less wear on the cylinder liner itself
(3)Less wear on the partner piston ring
(4)Less consumption of lubricant

For all I know The big 3 do this as well, but I'd never heard of it until I started reading through Toyota forums.

Thanks again for your replies

All aluminum blocks use some sort of liner to form the cylinder walls. An aluminum combustion chamber wouldn't last very long, considering the harsh environment.

There are two big reasons for Toyota's high level of reliability. First is obvious--they are known to actually overengineer their main and sub-systems. This is probably more a matter of durability than actual reliability, but I believe one kind of goes with the other in the case of Toyota. More importantly, if you want to know what makes Toyota (and Honda for that matter) among the most reliable automakers, the secret is in the high quality of the sensors and components they spec for their vehicles. Toyota has the highest standards for their OEM suppliers of sensors and components, which of course helps avoid breakdowns. Think about it----all car companies pretty much build solidly engineered engines. More often than not, it's a failed sensor or component that causes a breakdown, not a catastrophic failure of an engine, for example. I can honestly say that I've seen my share of garbage OEM parts on several different GM vehicles over the years. I've never seen anything but high quality stuff on Toyota vehicles, even the cheaper ones like the Corolla.

So if you ask me, Toyota's good reputation was built on the fact that they don't cheap out on the stuff they use in their cars. That's also one of the reasons that Toyotas are a bit more expensive then other vehicles in the same class. I guess it's true that you get what you pay for...