What's the real scoop about Toyota frame rust?

[mooch91]

All,

I'm no stranger to Toyota trucks, but I just bought my first 4Runner, a 2002 with 192K miles on it.

I had an 87 pickup that I had to sell for parts a number of years back because the frame rusted severely (along with the bed), resulting in a broken spring mount on the passenger's side rear. I'm sure the frame was in bad shape all around, but that truck ran its course and it was easier to sell it than to try any sort of repair.

I bought a 98 Tacoma with 186K miles shortly after that. It had been owned by a Toyota mechanic who said he had checked the frame and there were no issues. Sadly, three years later, when I brought it in for the Toyota recall, they were able to break through the frame and they bought the truck back. I did double my money in three years on a truck with 220K miles, though - thanks Toyota!

So I've got this 2002 4Runner now and I'm nervous about frame rust. I crawled underneath and it doesn't look much different than my Taco did. A little surface rust on the frame welds and body mounts. I don't see anything of concern right now but my Tacoma never had me concerned either until Toyota bought it back...

Some questions:

Is there any truth to what I've heard that this the 4Runner has a completely different frame than the Tacoma that makes it less susceptible to the rust-out?

Is there any truth to what I've heard that 2001+ Tacomas (and presumably 4Runners) don't generally have the frame rust issues because of something done differently than earlier models?

When I brought my Taco in for the recall, I was told Toyota would apply a rustproofing to the frame if it were found to be sound. Has anyone had Toyota apply this rustproofing (or applied it themselves) to a 3rd gen 4Runner?

Thanks in advance!

 

[wc11]

A friend of mine has an '09 FJ and he said the frame is rusting a bit but says it not an issue.
As far as my Runner, I've had it sprayed & retouched twice a year since new with that black waxy stuff.
In the spring they do the "touch up spray" on affected areas and have a complete spray every fall before salt season.
Too many think that once it's done, you never have to do it again.
Each time the dealer charges me about $30. Cheap insurance.

Your in a salt region. Get is sprayed.

 

[mooch91]

A friend of mine has an '09 FJ and he said the frame is rusting a bit but says it not an issue.
As far as my Runner, I've had it sprayed & retouched twice a year since new with that black waxy stuff.
In the spring they do the "touch up spray" on affected areas and have a complete spray every fall before salt season.
Too many think that once it's done, you never have to do it again.
Each time the dealer charges me about $30. Cheap insurance.

Your in a slat region. Get is sprayed.

Would you happen to know if this is the same treatment applied to the Tacomas, or just a general rustproofing?

 

[iowajosh]

The worst I have seen is on the undercoated ones. The undercoating cracks and saltwater sits in the cracks and just eats it up. I know I've seen a newer than 2001 tacoma with a replacement on the net somewhere. I've seen a few tundras for sale with new frames also but 2000 or 2001. My truck has the undercoating and it needs repaired also. I saw a /96 4rnr that was so badly rusted I wouldn't drive it when I was searching for cars last time. It was undercoated.

Anyway, probably worth the time to do minor repairs.

 

[Riceye]

Here's the poop on the Tacoma/4runner difference.

I also had a 98 Tacoma TRD that I purchased in Bozeman, MT in 2007. The frame was rust free. I live in SE WI where road salt is over-applied in an effort to compensate for poor drivers. After being involved in a rear-end/billiard ball/front-end collision on I-43 downtown Milwaukee last winter, I had my frame inspected prior to repair. The truck failed, and I also was compensated at 150% book value by Toyota.

Apparently, the final assembly for 1st generation Tacoma trucks was done in Fremont, CA. The frames were manufactured in Mexico by a subsidiary of the Dana Corp. There were steps skipped in the production that covered the corrosion protection of the metal. Toyota won a huge lawsuit with Dana a couple of years back relating to this quality error. As generous as Toyota appears with the buyback campaigns that followed, the money came out of Dana Corp's pocket (not that it shouldn't; They screwed up.).

The 3rd gen 4runners were assembled in Japan, and the necessary rustproofing was applied to the frames. Rust can still compromise the frames over time on our T4Rs, but it does not progress nearly so fast as the same vintage Tacoma trucks. My Tacoma went from clean to rusted through in four years!

I'm on my second 4runner since the truck. The first was totaled in a 50 mph sideswipe by a texting teenager. My current truck is a white 2000 SR5 five speed that began life in Vancouver, WA. It has been in Wisconsin for three or four winters, and is still pretty rust free. I purchased the truck last fall, and haven't had much of a chance to spend cleaning and protecting the underbody. Next summer it will get a thorough rust remediation with rust converter and Fluid Film.

I'll post some documentation of that when I get around to it!

 

[papapoopski]

Check the frame at the rear passenger side control arm, specifically next to the muffler. I have been told by an independent Toyota mechanic that this is a known spot of early frame rot due to proximity to heat from the muffler.

I have been using rust converter and fluid film to beat back the rust monster.

I bought a gutter cleaner hose attachment to spray the underside down once a week, makes it very easy - like this Sunmate Telescoping Wand With Gutter Cleaner 58996

I can't answer your questions.

 

[wc11]

Would you happen to know if this is the same treatment applied to the Tacomas, or just a general rustproofing?

I don't know whether it's the same but I doubt it if they're not made in the same plant.
I'd get it done anyway.

 

[vic2000]

Frame rust

If you own a 4runner contact Toyota and file a complaint with NHTSA and FTA. They have recalls on the Tacoma, tundra and sequia but we're getting screwed, these trucks are unsafe. I could've been killed when my frame cracked.QUOTE=wc11;1595461]I don't know whether it's the same but I doubt it if they're not made in the same plant.
I'd get it done anyway.[/QUOTE]

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Apparently, the final assembly for 1st generation Tacoma trucks was done in Fremont, CA. The frames were manufactured in Mexico by a subsidiary of the Dana Corp.

A little more on that and some interesting Toyota history.

If you remember the mid 80's Toyota pickups (and my ex-wife and I bought a brand new red '87 4x4) you would see them 10 years later and the bed (especially above the rear wheels) would be rusted out, the paint on the bed faded, but the cab and front end would look great.

I found out after the fact the same scenario. The trucks were shipped to the U.S. with just the cab and frame rails and then the bed was painted, decals put on etc.. in California. And they SUCKED.

Our little red '87 4x4 got wrecked in '89 when a high school kid in a '64 Ford Fairlane pulled in front of me (Ford barely creased despite being broadsided - Toyota had over $3K damage) and we got rid of it after that.

Long story short - if you see an 80's Toyota pickup that is original and the cab looks great and the bed like crap, there ya go.

 

[M1911]

I bought my 4th Gen 4Runner new in '03. The 4Gen 4Runner frame is very similar to the current Taco frame. My frame rusted to oblivion. In December 2014 Toyota agreed to replace the frame provided I paid the first $1000.

 

[jeremyc74]

Here's the poop on the Tacoma/4runner difference.

I also had a 98 Tacoma TRD that I purchased in Bozeman, MT in 2007. The frame was rust free. I live in SE WI where road salt is over-applied in an effort to compensate for poor drivers. After being involved in a rear-end/billiard ball/front-end collision on I-43 downtown Milwaukee last winter, I had my frame inspected prior to repair. The truck failed, and I also was compensated at 150% book value by Toyota.

Apparently, the final assembly for 1st generation Tacoma trucks was done in Fremont, CA. The frames were manufactured in Mexico by a subsidiary of the Dana Corp. There were steps skipped in the production that covered the corrosion protection of the metal. Toyota won a huge lawsuit with Dana a couple of years back relating to this quality error. As generous as Toyota appears with the buyback campaigns that followed, the money came out of Dana Corp's pocket (not that it shouldn't; They screwed up.).

!

This is exactly what happened. I do automation work for the auto industry and I've worked with engineers from Dana that were involved in this mess. The manufacturing process just wasn't properly followed when the frames were built. I don't think all the frames in question came from Mexico, but I may be wrong about that.

It's my understanding that the corrosion protection was a coating the frames were dipped in prior to getting the final black treatment that's visible to the eye. Apparently the solution they were being dipped in just wasn't maintained at the proper chemical levels for it to work properly, but it took years for the defect to show itself.

 

[adkins]

Check the frame at the rear passenger side control arm, specifically next to the muffler. I have been told by an independent Toyota mechanic that this is a known spot of early frame rot due to proximity to heat from the muffler.

I have been using rust converter and fluid film to beat back the rust monster.

I bought a gutter cleaner hose attachment to spray the underside down once a week, makes it very easy - like this Sunmate Telescoping Wand With Gutter Cleaner 58996

I can't answer your questions.

This is the exact spot I got rust. Planned on cutting out the bad section and welding a new piece of plate in.

 

[SkidPalace]

This is the exact spot I got rust. Planned on cutting out the bad section and welding a new piece of plate in.

My rear passenger control arm mount just broke off today. Can't believe I got it home before it let go completely. It is holding on by a thread. I have no idea if I will be able to fix it.
I was supposed to go and buy a 2015 Trail tomorrow.
Now I have no idea what to do.
Anybody want a locked and supercharged Sport/Highlander with some rust issues? I can let it go cheap if your in the Boston area... I think I will pop it on the Classifieds section.

 

[M1911]

Take it to Westboro Toyota and ask for Eric Seidl.

 

[SkidPalace]

Take it to Westboro Toyota and ask for Eric Seidl.

Really? And ask him what? About the fixing the frame, getting a new rig or both?
Thanks.

Nevermind. I just saw your other thread regarding your frame replacement. Very cool. I will call about my options. Westboro Toyota is only about 30 minutes away.
Thanks again. That's what I get for ignoring the forum for a year or so.

 

[Kmurt]

I wonder if anybody who lives in the southern and western states have any problems with frame rust?

You guys should post up pics of your undercarriage rust free or not.

 

[ajonesnv]

I wonder if anybody who lives in the southern and western states have any problems with frame rust?

You guys should post up pics of your undercarriage rust free or not.

Nope. My truck has been here in Vegas its whole life and other than some surface rust from scrapes its in phenomenal condition. Same as [MENTION=113639]Mgyver1[/MENTION] 's

 

[Kmurt]

Nope. My truck has been here in Vegas its whole life and other than some surface rust from scrapes its in phenomenal condition. Same as [MENTION=113639]Mgyver1[/MENTION] 's

Oh how I envy you guys.

 

[ajonesnv]

Oh how I envy you guys.

Ha! You should for many reasons...frame rust isn't the top of the list

 

[4Runner Green]

I wonder if anybody who lives in the southern and western states have any problems with frame rust?

You guys should post up pics of your undercarriage rust free or not.

I got my truck this winter... It came from the Carolinas and showed almost no rust. After this winter finally clears out I'm going to pay to have it brushed and sealed.

Not sure where yet... You guys near Boston know anyone doing it? I'm there almost every weekend.