What's the real scoop about Toyota frame rust?

[SkidPalace]

You want pics. You got pics.








Seems the right rear stabilizer mount is about 90% separated with only the rear weld of the mount still attached. Sounded like a CV joint at first but realized it was popping under acceleration in a straight line. Sorta put 2 and 2 together but drove the rest of the 5 miles home anyway without stopping.
I can't drive on it until I can get it fixed. Kind of tough to trade or flip the vehicle in its current condition.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Ouch, that sucks. I can't help but think that I am not far behind you...

 

[M1911]

Not good.

 

[Climber]

My truck has been in the desert or Arizona its whole life and not a single spot of rust on it... I couldnt even imagine what you guys have to deal with in terms of rust. I would freak out if i saw even surface rust on my truck. haha

 

[SkidPalace]

Not good.

Yup, and Eric at Wetsboro told me he can't help. I could drive it in and he could inspect and report it to Toyota in the hopes that they will finally issue a recall, but that was all he could promise. Too old he said. He also said just talk to any Toyota service manager closer to home. Any one of them can do the same thing with corporate. I called Wellesley Toyota and they said no dice. I would need to take it to a body shop.
I think I am headed to Harbor Freight and getting a cheapo MIG welder. I will try my luck with a crash course in frame repair just to get me back on the road for a few more weeks. No dealers in my area have the Trail Premium I want.
I need to keep this pig a while longer until someone can sell me a suitable rig.
I am starting to wonder if I am a fool for thinking about buying another Toyota truck.:ybrick:

 

[chewybtc]

Looks like the same thing I got going on!

Something should be done about this from Toyota. I don't care that it's old, things shouldn't break at exactly the same spot on every truck that see's some salt!

 

[blcktpgsr]

You want pics. You got pics.


Seems the right rear stabilizer mount is about 90% separated with only the rear weld of the mount still attached. Sounded like a CV joint at first but realized it was popping under acceleration in a straight line. Sorta put 2 and 2 together but drove the rest of the 5 miles home anyway without stopping.
I can't drive on it until I can get it fixed. Kind of tough to trade or flip the vehicle in its current condition.

This may help...


but kidding aside..GL with the fix. Im'a give this a try this summer.

 

[02SE]

I am starting to wonder if I am a fool for thinking about buying another Toyota truck.:ybrick:

Any make of vehicle will rust out, if it's driven in a highly corrosive environment, and not washed frequently to remove Salt, and other de-icing chemicals, especially from the undercarriage, as needed.

I've mentioned this many times in frame rust threads on here. My '97 4Runner, which I bought new, has spent it's entire life in a State that Salts the roads heavily all Winter long. The body and undercarriage are rust free, because I knew what Salt can do to any neglected vehicle. So I washed it as much as necessary all Winter long, (which was a pain some times, but has proven to be worth the effort) to remove the Salt buildup.

A neighbor had a Mercury Mountaineer (Ford Explorer) which was bought at about the same time as my 4Runner. He would make fun of me washing my 4Runner so frequently in Winter. His Mountaineer was hauled off to the junkyard years ago, because it rusted to the point it was junk.

Bottom line: Take care of whatever vehicle you buy, and it will last.

 

[ToyotaBrah]

^ I'm glad to hear I am not the only person so keen on washing the undercarriage in winter. I rinsed mine several times at the DIY self serve washes to prevent the salt from collecting in all of the nooks and crannies. Has proven to be effective so far.

 

[SkidPalace]

Any make of vehicle will rust out, if it's driven in a highly corrosive environment, and not washed frequently to remove Salt, and other de-icing chemicals, especially from the undercarriage, as needed.

I've mentioned this many times in frame rust threads on here. My '97 4Runner, which I bought new, has spent it's entire life in a State that Salts the roads heavily all Winter long. The body and undercarriage are rust free, because I knew what Salt can do to any neglected vehicle. So I washed it as much as necessary all Winter long, (which was a pain some times, but has proven to be worth the effort) to remove the Salt buildup.

A neighbor had a Mercury Mountaineer (Ford Explorer) which was bought at about the same time as my 4Runner. He would make fun of me washing my 4Runner so frequently in Winter. His Mountaineer was hauled off to the junkyard years ago, because it rusted to the point it was junk.

Bottom line: Take care of whatever vehicle you buy, and it will last.

That's all well and good, but the fact remains that there are plenty of other similar vintage and older vehicles on the road that travel through the same salty slop that our vehicles do. Somehow those vehicles haven't all rotted to the core. Every vehicle is different and even essentially untreated steel will last an eternity in the desert. These trucks were made with the full intention of being used in wintry climates yet in my opinion they are sadly unprepared for "normal" conditions of use. Your car shouldn't have to be washed after every use. That is ridiculous to expect such a thing. No personal offense intended towards anyone, I am just venting a bit. :dammit:

 

[02SE]

That's all well and good, but the fact remains that there are plenty of other similar vintage and older vehicles on the road that travel through the same salty slop that our vehicles do. Somehow those vehicles haven't all rotted to the core. Every vehicle is different and even essentially untreated steel will last an eternity in the desert. These trucks were made with the full intention of being used in wintry climates yet in my opinion they are sadly unprepared for "normal" conditions of use. Your car shouldn't have to be washed after every use. That is ridiculous to expect such a thing. No personal offense intended towards anyone, I am just venting a bit. :dammit:

Every vehicle I've ever owned, it stated right in the owner's manual that for the longest service life, the vehicle needs to be maintained. That not only includes preventive maintenance of the mechanical parts, but maintaining the body and frame by washing off corrosion inducing chemicals as necessary.

The manufacturers know that even with the best rustproofing methods available, if a vehicle is driven in highly corrosive conditions, and little to no effort is made by the owner to clean the vehicle as needed, it will eventually rust away. That's why they are only warranted for rust for a limited amount of time. They have determined that even with complete neglect, the vehicle can usually make it through the rust warranty period.

Look, I used to work on consumer cars for a living. I saw all makes and models rusted out due to neglect. I still have friends in the auto repair business that tell me the same thing today.

Some people do a better job than others of maintaining their vehicles. Some people just put gas in them and drive. Maybe they get the oil changed once in awhile. But wash the undercarriage in the middle of Winter?!?!, that would be cold and inconvenient..

Of course when the neglectful Owners vehicles do rust out, they blame the manufacturer. Instead of their own neglect.

Toyota's can last a long time, if they are maintained. If not, they will eventually reach the point of being beyond reasonable repair. As with any make or model.

The newest 3rd gen is now 13 years old. 13 years is well beyond Toyota's rust warranty period.

I'm not trying to piss in your Cheerios, I'm just explaining the reality of the situation. I'm guessing that you are probably not the first owner of your 4Runner, and that it was neglected by the previous Owner(s).

My advice if you don't want to have the rust fixed, is to buy the new 4Runner, and maintain it better than your current one was.

Good luck.

 

[4Runner Green]

^^ I totally agree with you. A car can only be as reliable as its owner. Now most of us here are probably the most loving to our vehicles but the previous owners may not have been.

My mother is the perfect example of someone who bought a toyota with the plan of neglecting as much "preventative medicine" as possible. Toyota has a reputation who's coattail she plans to ride as long as possible.

I've had my 4Runner for about 6 weeks and have washed it 5 times...feeling borderline obsessive

 

[OOPSIES]

Just joined this forum after doing a google search and it seems my control arm has just done the exact same thing last Friday. Advice was given to me to sue through small claims court. I just bought this truck not even a year ago and it looked just fine in that area before. Since this is known and/or becoming very common, maybe we all can do something about it.

 

[jeremyc74]

Just joined this forum after doing a google search and it seems my control arm has just done the exact same thing last Friday. Advice was given to me to sue through small claims court. I just bought this truck not even a year ago and it looked just fine in that area before. Since this is known and/or becoming very common, maybe we all can do something about it.

Sue for WHAT?!

That vehicle is 15 years old, and driven in the rust belt! Should Toyota be expected to build vehicles that last forever in those conditions?

 

[bufferdan]

Washing and spraying your frame off to keep this under control isnt really a solution to this frame rust problem. These frames are rusting inside out in the same area. Salt is collecting in that area of those rear brackets. Not much you can do besides attempting to spray water through those little holes in the frame to move the buildup around. Unless you dumped oil down your frame since new or didnt drive it much in the winter months you too probably have rot...its just not through your frame for you to see yet

 

[OOPSIES]

Sue for WHAT?!

That vehicle is 15 years old, and driven in the rust belt! Should Toyota be expected to build vehicles that last forever in those conditions?

With over 100 of the same complaints filed with the NHTSA SOLELY for a single production year of 2000, and also with them recalling 01-02 4Runners for this problem even though the previous years have the same chassis, there is definitely grounds. When lives are put in danger because of carelessness, you can. Besides, Toyota would more than likely pay out the small claims maximum your state allows and then you would be ok. People have sued for worse things, such as depreciation. This is also an isolated rust incident, not a random corrosion of the frame. This is a design flaw.

 

[jeremyc74]

With over 100 of the same complaints filed with the NHTSA SOLELY for a single production year of 2000, and also with them recalling 01-02 4Runners for this problem even though the previous years have the same chassis, there is definitely grounds. When lives are put in danger because of carelessness, you can. Besides, Toyota would more than likely pay out the small claims maximum your state allows and then you would be ok. People have sued for worse things, such as depreciation. This is also an isolated rust incident, not a random corrosion of the frame. This is a design flaw.

The only way lives are put in danger is if you drive a vehicle that isn't serviceable. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming everyone else. If there's any carelessness here it's on YOUR part.

100 complaints out of MILLIONS of vehicles sold. Toyota owes you absolutely nothing. You've been out of warranty for TEN YEARS!

And go ahead and try to sue for depreciation. 4Runners with 200k miles on them still bring good money if they're properly taken care of. You'd be laughed out of court trying to make that argument.

Just face reality for a change and accept the fact that you have a vehicle that was driven in a corrosive environment and wasn't properly cared for, and there's no one to blame but yourself. It's the equvilent of someone in FL backing into the ocean to launch a boat once a week and then *****ing because the bumper and rear brakes rust. NO SHIT!! Salt water is corrosive. :ak472:

 

[OOPSIES]

The only way lives are put in danger is if you drive a vehicle that isn't serviceable. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming everyone else. If there's any carelessness here it's on YOUR part.

100 complaints out of MILLIONS of vehicles sold. Toyota owes you absolutely nothing. You've been out of warranty for TEN YEARS!

And go ahead and try to sue for depreciation. 4Runners with 200k miles on them still bring good money if they're properly taken care of. You'd be laughed out of court trying to make that argument.

Just face reality for a change and accept the fact that you have a vehicle that was driven in a corrosive environment and wasn't properly cared for, and there's no one to blame but yourself. It's the equvilent of someone in FL backing into the ocean to launch a boat once a week and then *****ing because the bumper and rear brakes rust. NO SHIT!! Salt water is corrosive. :ak472:

Sorry to hear such angry language directed towards someone else. You still seem to forget that this is a design flaw, rather than usual neglect. Sure if my frame rusted out from neglect it is on the previous owners, but to have other trucks that have zero surface rust, separate at that spot, that is a different story. You can act all high and mighty over in Florida where this isn't a problem for you, yet, but the fact remains that this is a design flaw that endangers consumers. I'd ask you to re-evaluate your opinion as sometimes you may not know who you are speaking with. You could be talking to a corrosion prevention engineer without knowing it.

 

[jeremyc74]

Sorry to hear such angry language directed towards someone else. You still seem to forget that this is a design flaw, rather than usual neglect. Sure if my frame rusted out from neglect it is on the previous owners, but to have other trucks that have zero surface rust, separate at that spot, that is a different story. You can act all high and mighty over in Florida where this isn't a problem for you, yet, but the fact remains that this is a design flaw that endangers consumers. I'd ask you to re-evaluate your opinion as sometimes you may not know who you are speaking with. You could be talking to a corrosion prevention engineer without knowing it.

Watching people take advantage of the courts make me angry. You cost us ALL money.

And you are speaking to an engineer with about 15 years in corrosive environments. I did salt water desalinization for several years, then designed products for the marine industry for 7, and spent the last 7 in automotive, so I honestly don't care who I'm speaking to.

Until manufacturers switch to aluminum for frames, trucks driven on salted roads WILL RUST if not taken care of.

So just let me ask...in your expert opinion, what would be the acceptable life of the frame? How long should Toyota be responsible for it? Obviously 15 years at least, but would 20 be enough? Maybe even 50?

They're legally responsible through the warranty period, and that's it. Anything beyond that is good will on the part of the company, and that's the cold hard reality of the matter.

And also, are you the original owner of your vehicle?

 

[OOPSIES]

Watching people take advantage of the courts make me angry. You cost us ALL money.

And you are speaking to an engineer with about 15 years in corrosive environments. I did salt water desalinization for several years, then designed products for the marine industry for 7, and spent the last 7 in automotive, so I honestly don't care who I'm speaking to.

Until manufacturers switch to aluminum for frames, trucks driven on salted roads WILL RUST if not taken care of.

So just let me ask...in your expert opinion, what would be the acceptable life of the frame? How long should Toyota be responsible for it? Obviously 15 years at least, but would 20 be enough? Maybe even 50?

They're legally responsible through the warranty period, and that's it. Anything beyond that is good will on the part of the company, and that's the cold hard reality of the matter.

And also, are you the original owner of your vehicle?

So then I would assume you should agree that the concentration of the fault is a design flaw? Why else would it so commonly fail there, and not anywhere else on the frame? The fact that Toyota knows about this internally could help. Yes I understand that it is 'my fault' for purchasing a bad vehicle, but I am not too sure many have the ability to look inside the frame for perforation. The reason this was not included in the original lawsuit with Dana is because it wasn't found. We now see it. Yes 15 years is past Toyota's design limitations (at that time) so you are correct in that fact, but when a part fails and endangers a consumer that is another thing. Not all of our 3rd Gens are 15 years old yet.