What's the real scoop about Toyota frame rust?

[02SE]

Washing and spraying your frame off to keep this under control isnt really a solution to this frame rust problem. These frames are rusting inside out in the same area. Salt is collecting in that area of those rear brackets. Not much you can do besides attempting to spray water through those little holes in the frame to move the buildup around. Unless you dumped oil down your frame since new or didnt drive it much in the winter months you too probably have rot...its just not through your frame for you to see yet

Really?

Out of curiosity I used my borescope to look inside the framerails of my 17 (nearly 18) year old 4Runner, which spends it's winters on salt-encrusted roads. You know what I found? No rust.

The vast majority of people don't bother to maintain their vehicles. The fact that unmaintained 4Runner's can last so far beyond the rust warranty period, is pretty impressive IMO.

 

[OOPSIES]

So you didn't do your due diligence, and are now looking for someone else to blame.







You are a broken record for passing-the-buck.

Here's the reality:
Your vehicle was neglected by the previous owner(s).
You bought the vehicle without doing your due diligence.
You are now looking for someone to blame for a rust issue on a vehicle that is YEARS OUT OF WARRANTY.

A "design flaw" which you keep harping on, would show failure during the warranty period.

As I have stated, Toyota designed their vehicles with a 15 year life limitation. Not all 3rd Gen 4Runners have reached that. Toyota internally knows about this. Seems like you only read the snippets that appealed to your opinion. Regardless, it is your opinion. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jeremyc74]

I could link you to the NHTSA's website, but a previous post did that. I would hope you can peruse through the complaints. Not all people can handle a vehicle losing control, most people would just panic. Luckily I was able to save myself and nobody was near enough on the highway.

There's no link here that supports your claim that there have in injuries caused by this.

 

[jeremyc74]

As I have stated, Toyota designed their vehicles with a 15 year life limitation.

Where are you getting this? I've never seen Toyota state that anywhere.

 

[02SE]

OOPSIES, how long have you lived in Lansing, MI? Have you visited salvage yards in your area and seen first hand the corrosion carnage that abounds? Ten year old domestic vehicles fill the yards, destroyed by road salt.

This is not an issue.

The people that didn't do their due diligence when maintaining or buying their 4Runner, are looking to pass the buck for their own negligence. They do not want to hear reality.

 

[OOPSIES]

There's no link here that supports your claim that there have in injuries caused by this.

Regardless there is Google if you cannot scroll up and find the link. It would be silly to think nobody has been injured by a failing suspension member now wouldn't it? I don't need to look on your behalf. If I can find it, you can as well.

If you just want to berate that is fine, I understand you may have some stress that needs to be let out. I only asked for those that would care to help. Unless you are a lawyer, or you directly work for Toyota and tell me why this is not covered, I cannot see how your advice is any more credible.


I will update those that care to hear the progression.

 

[jeremyc74]

Regardless there is Google if you cannot scroll up and find the link. It would be silly to think nobody has been injured by a failing suspension member now wouldn't it? I don't need to look on your behalf. If I can find it, you can as well.

If you just want to berate that is fine, I understand you may have some stress that needs to be let out. I only asked for those that would care to help. Unless you are a lawyer, or you directly work for Toyota and tell me why this is not covered, I cannot see how your advice is any more credible.


I will update those that care to hear the progression.

YOU are the one making the claim. If you want me to believe it you're going to have to supply the proof. There is no link in this thread that does that.

I'm not berating you, I'm challenging you to prove the assertions you've made here. If you can't prove it here, you're damn sure not going to prove it in court against a Toyota corporate attorney! :sadwave:

 

[OOPSIES]

YOU are the one making the claim. If you want me to believe it you're going to have to supply the proof. There is no link in this thread that does that.

I'm not berating you, I'm challenging you to prove the assertions you've made here. If you can't prove it here, you're damn sure not going to prove it in court against a Toyota corporate attorney! :sadwave:

Toyota's design practices at the time was 15 years. I will trust an actual Toyota corrosion (materials) engineer before your opinion. I would hope that person holds some merit, you know, because that is that persons job. When that engineer says it's known, and it's a design flaw, I am sorry they hold more clout than you do.

Sorry if we want to get legal here, but maybe I wasn't clear. It would be silly to think a common design failure like this would not pose any harm whatsoever. It is reasonable to think that somebody has this failure and could not control their vehicle. I will most likely find an EXACT example to help my case, but any reasonable person can deduce that a failing control arm can lead to an accident. I was not making the claim I personally know someone that has gotten hurt. I was making the claim that it is reasonable to assume that people can get hurt, or can go into financial trouble because they lose their only vehicle. I am lucky enough to be able to handle my truck when it failed, and also lucky this is only my winter beater and I have another vehicle to drive.

 

[bufferdan]

Really?

Out of curiosity I used my borescope to look inside the framerails of my 17 (nearly 18) year old 4Runner, which spends it's winters on salt-encrusted roads. You know what I found? No rust.

The vast majority of people don't bother to maintain their vehicles. The fact that unmaintained 4Runner's can last so far beyond the rust warranty period, is pretty impressive IMO.

For all 17yrs your 4runner has been on salt roads or just since you've owed it? Both runners ive owned have been in the salt their whole life. Body panels are perfect, frame looks good besides minor surface rust on welds... but right at the brackets on the frame they have been eaten out from the inside out. Im not sure what special thing you must be doing to "maintain" your 4runner outside of normal washing and waxing? Have you been spraying out the inside of the frame and treating it internally? That wouldnt exactly be close to normal "maintenance"

 

[OOPSIES]

YOU are the one making the claim. If you want me to believe it you're going to have to supply the proof. There is no link in this thread that does that.

I'm not berating you, I'm challenging you to prove the assertions you've made here. If you can't prove it here, you're damn sure not going to prove it in court against a Toyota corporate attorney! :sadwave:

Let me add that Small Claims doesn't allow corporate attorneys, or any representative lawyer at that. So that answers your question.

 

[OOPSIES]

For all 17yrs your 4runner has been on salt roads or just since you've owed it? Both runners ive owned have been in the salt their whole life. Body panels are perfect, frame looks good besides minor surface rust on welds... but right at the brackets on the frame they have been eaten out from the inside out. Im not sure what special thing you must be doing to "maintain" your 4runner outside of normal washing and waxing? Have you been spraying out the inside of the frame and treating it internally? That wouldnt exactly be close to normal "maintenance"

bufferdan, please get a picture of this if you could. It would help the case that it is not due to a poorly taken care of frame.

 

[jeremyc74]

Let me add that Small Claims doesn't allow corporate attorneys, or any representative lawyer at that. So that answers your question.

So who then, exactly, will be allowed to plead the case for Toyota?

 

[OOPSIES]

So who then, exactly, will be allowed to plead the case for Toyota?

Either an Engineer or a Sales Rep. They would have to prove that this is not a design flaw, which they most likely cannot. Either that, or they settle outside of court. Michigan has a limit of 5k so generally they would rather pay that out.

 

[jeremyc74]

Either an Engineer or a Sales Rep. They would have to prove that this is not a design flaw, which they most likely cannot. Either that, or they settle outside of court. Michigan has a limit of 5k so generally they would rather pay that out.

:lmao:

Ok. Keep us updated on your legal proceedings. :snacker:

 

[OOPSIES]

:lmao:

Ok. Keep us updated on your legal proceedings. :snacker:

I'll come by and buy your Runner off of you with the earnings. :wof:

 

[jeremyc74]

I'll come by and buy your Runner off of you with the earnings. :wof:

$5k wouldn't touch it.

 

[OOPSIES]

$5k wouldn't touch it.

Yes haha I would understand that I do own a 3rd Gen I know what they are worth. I am glad yours is worth money. I prefer an IJM one though, so it would match my other cars paint code.

 

[02SE]

For all 17yrs your 4runner has been on salt roads or just since you've owed it? Both runners ive owned have been in the salt their whole life. Body panels are perfect, frame looks good besides minor surface rust on welds... but right at the brackets on the frame they have been eaten out from the inside out. Im not sure what special thing you must be doing to "maintain" your 4runner outside of normal washing and waxing? Have you been spraying out the inside of the frame and treating it internally? That wouldnt exactly be close to normal "maintenance"

I bought my '97, SR5, V6, 5-speed, E-locker, factory leather, moonroof and premium sound, larger brakes and tires 4Runner new off the lot. So yes, it's whole life has been on salt-encrusted roads in Winter. Common sense should tell anyone anyone that saltwater will rust steel, if it's allowed to accumulate and sit.

I have always grabbed the garden hose, and thoroughly sprayed off the body and undercarriage, including spraying inside the frame rails, as needed. In the depths of Winter that can be cold and inconvenient. In below freezing temperatures that means immediately draining the hose after use, so the water doesn't freeze solid inside the hose. Yes, it was and is a pain.

The benefit of being pro-active, is that my nearly 18 year old 4Runner is still in great shape, and will last as long as I want to continue to maintain it.

At this point in it's life, it's mostly just my Winter driver, and trail exploration vehicle.

As I and others have already mentioned, there are plenty of neglected cars representing all makes and models which are newer, filling junkyards due to rusting out.

 

[OOPSIES]

I bought my 4Runner new off the lot. So yes, it's whole life has been on salt-encrusted roads in Winter. Common sense should tell anyone anyone that saltwater will rust steel, if it's allowed to accumulate and sit.

I have always grabbed the garden hose, and thoroughly sprayed off the body and undercarriage, including spraying inside the frame rails, as needed. In the depths of Winter that can be cold and inconvenient. In below freezing temperatures that means immediately draining the hose after use, so the water doesn't freeze solid inside the hose. Yes, it was and is a pain.

The benefit of being pro-active, is that my nearly 18 year old 4Runner is still in great shape, and will last as long as I want to continue to maintain it.

At this point in it's life, it's mostly just my Winter driver, and trail exploration vehicle.

As I and others have already mentioned, there are plenty of neglected cars representing all makes and models which are newer, filling junkyards due to rusting out.

02SE, is your control arm mount in good condition as well? Curious if the perforation has made it to the other side or not. Since you have owned it since it was new, yours would be a good case against my accusations if your mount is just fine.

 

[cfranck1]

:snacker:
opcorn: I'm surprised that this one is not closed yet?!