What’s your hot take on 4Runners? I’ll go first:

[2021nightshade4x4]

1.) The people who wouldn’t see the problem with auto start/stop in 4Runners are the same people who wouldn’t be able to detect an unbalanced tire (nor a warped rotor).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[joshelliot]

yeah, I hate that ish lol

 

[Bmnorm2]

Stop/Start should only be implemented on vehicles with at minimum a mild hybrid system. The electric motor can get the vehicle rolling a few mph while the engine turns over and you have immediate (normal) throttle response.

I would be pissed if they implemented stop/start on the 4runner without ability to disable it permanently (doesn't reset after shut down). Imagine trying to off-road if you couldn't disable it all!!

My hot take: A mild hybrid 4runner w/ large 4cyl turbo would be an upgrade over the current setup, and still very reliable. The addition of more components/systems irrefutably lowers the reliability (its called math), but Toyota hasn't shown any signs of quitting the quality/reliability game.

If it was up to me it would either have the 1UR-FE or the V35A-FTS

 

[BadTrainDriver]

Stop/Start should only be implemented on vehicles with at minimum a mild hybrid system. The electric motor can get the vehicle rolling a few mph while the engine turns over and you have immediate (normal) throttle response.

I would be pissed if they implemented stop/start on the 4runner without ability to disable it permanently (doesn't reset after shut down). Imagine trying to off-road if you couldn't disable it all!!

My hot take: A mild hybrid 4runner w/ large 4cyl turbo would be an upgrade over the current setup, and still very reliable. The addition of more components/systems irrefutably lowers the reliability (its called math), but Toyota hasn't shown any signs of quitting the quality/reliability game.

If it was up to me it would either have the 1UR-FE or the V35A-FTS

Are there any "start/stop" vehicles where you can permanently disable it, ie doesn't reset after shutting the vehicle down? My wife's last two vehicles have had it, and neither could be permanently disabled.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Are there any "start/stop" vehicles where you can permanently disable it, ie doesn't reset after shutting the vehicle down? My wife's last two vehicles have had it, and neither could be permanently disabled.

Good question, i'm actually not sure. IIRC some german (BMW) vehicles can?? I don't have any actual experience with a vehicle that can be set to off or disabled and remain that way. I think the EPA takes it into consideration, so maybe not...

 

[Captain Spalding]

There’s an aftermarket module available for Wranglers that allow the truck to remember the state of the start-stop setting when the truck is shut off.

 

[fkheath]

Stop/Start should only be implemented on vehicles with at minimum a mild hybrid system. The electric motor can get the vehicle rolling a few mph while the engine turns over and you have immediate (normal) throttle response.

Over on the RAV4 forum (Toyota RAV4 Forums) there is extensive discussions of the RAV4 hybrid system and when the ICE (gas engine) kicks in verses just the electric (EV) mode.

My experience with my RAV4 hybrid is the transition from EV mode to HV mode is seamless with the ICE "turning over" practically instantaneous, within a half second. When I have tromped on the gas pedal, there is no delay at all in getting going. The combination of ICE and electric motors all going at once is why the RAV4 hybrid plug in (Prime) is the second fastest car that Toyota sells.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Stop/Start should only be implemented on vehicles with at minimum a mild hybrid system. The electric motor can get the vehicle rolling a few mph while the engine turns over and you have immediate (normal) throttle response.

I would be pissed if they implemented stop/start on the 4runner without ability to disable it permanently (doesn't reset after shut down). Imagine trying to off-road if you couldn't disable it all!!

My hot take: A mild hybrid 4runner w/ large 4cyl turbo would be an upgrade over the current setup, and still very reliable. The addition of more components/systems irrefutably lowers the reliability (its called math), but Toyota hasn't shown any signs of quitting the quality/reliability game.

If it was up to me it would either have the 1UR-FE or the V35A-FTS

This is exactly what I have been saying and I don’t think enough people can notice the difference to appreciate it, but it’s REAL!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jetboy]

In many euro economy cars they are manual transmission diesels with start/stop. Basically as you come to a stop the engine stops when you are in neutral and release the clutch. As soon as you depress the clutch to get started again the engine re-fires. But it's not instant. If you've driven a diesel, you know the delay on start up. So it takes some planning as the light nears being green.

I would very much like to have a hybrid with start stop, but only if it's done properly. The accessories MUST run off the electric system. So things like the AC should keep running when the engine shuts off. The Tundra hybrid is not a very good system for start/stop because the drive unit is behind the engine so your AC and heater, etc will all shut off when you're waiting at a stop light. Toyota's better hybrid designs like the Prius are seamless and work really well. The engine shuts off well before you actually stop at a light anyway, so it's not really start/stop in the same sense. The reason that system is very desirable for me is because it allows you to do things like have a "pet" mode where you can leave the car to keep its self cool while you go into a store. For anyone with a dog - you know how nice that would be.

The other issue that it helps resolve is that idle is bad for modern engines. It may be worse than driving for engine wear. And yet I still see neighbors of mine let their cars idle for long periods of time that is both damaging to the engine and annoying if it's a diesel. Not to mention the air quality issues. It's especially bad for modern diesels emissions systems. I recall some of them will automatically shut down after 3 minutes of idle or something like that. And if you do it two or three times in a row it then will go into limp mode and require a visit to the dealer.

I'm not sure much of this matters. There's one generation of ICE vehicles left. Then it'll be all EV for north america. I'd happily take a GOOD hybrid 4Runner. A Rivian R1S with a range extender ICE setup could be very compelling. I hope Toyota does better than the Tundra hybrid setup based on the EPA numbers. Maybe the tundra hybrid will actually do much better than the epa numbers suggest. But the new 4Runner has to get at least 25mpg and it needs to have enough power that it doesn't have to constantly gear hunt during normal highway driving in the mountains. Turbo would help a lot there.

 

[Pedro367]

I'm not sure why Start/Stop causes such a disturbance with people. Once you get used to it you barely notice it. It's defeatable at the push of a button and also turns itself off under certain conditions (traffic, engine temp, if its hot out and you have the air on, etc.) They would never make one without the ability to turn it off, so it's a non issue when offroading. Or, they'd just program it to disable start/stop in 4wd or something. It cuts back on idle emissions, gas, etc., so I don't see any issue with it except having to "wait" .9 seconds to hit the gas which is, again, a non-issue.

 

[usdmej]

this vehicle is a 3 flash turn signal and locking gas cap away from being perfect

 

[Bmnorm2]

this vehicle is a 3 flash turn signal and locking gas cap away from being perfect

This! I loved having the half-push 3 flash turn signal on previous vehicles. The lack of locking gas cap is really odd to me.

 

[Bmnorm2]

I'm not sure why Start/Stop causes such a disturbance with people. Once you get used to it you barely notice it. It's defeatable at the push of a button and also turns itself off under certain conditions (traffic, engine temp, if its hot out and you have the air on, etc.) They would never make one without the ability to turn it off, so it's a non issue when offroading. Or, they'd just program it to disable start/stop in 4wd or something. It cuts back on idle emissions, gas, etc., so I don't see any issue with it except having to "wait" .9 seconds to hit the gas which is, again, a non-issue.

You aren't wrong. However, consider the audience... many people here despise the throttle pedal mapping and use aftermarket to filter the signal to their liking. Stop/Start is the same root issue (non linear hysteresis/unexpected response relative to input)

 

[Jetboy]

You aren't wrong. However, consider the audience... many people here despise the throttle pedal mapping and use aftermarket to filter the signal to their liking. Stop/Start is the same root issue (non linear hysteresis/unexpected response relative to input)

Here's the problem. When you're sitting at the strip and the amber lights start the sequence on the tree, you don't always know if it's a standard tree timing sequence or a professional sequence timing. So if you don't get the launch right you'll easily lose a tenth or more in the quarter mile. That's something I just can't accept in what is basically Toyota's only COPO equivalent model.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

This! I loved having the half-push 3 flash turn signal on previous vehicles. The lack of locking gas cap is really odd to me.

3 flash quick press turn signal, remote opening fuel door, AND “wipers-don’t-stop-in-the-middle-of-your-windshield-when-you-shut-your-car-off” away…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Here's the problem. When you're sitting at the strip and the amber lights start the sequence on the tree, you don't always know if it's a standard tree timing sequence or a professional sequence timing. So if you don't get the launch right you'll easily lose a tenth or more in the quarter mile. That's something I just can't accept in what is basically Toyota's only COPO equivalent model.

That’s why they have a separate field for reaction time…

Also can you explain the COPO reference? Central Office Production Order? What can’t you get in dealer stock that can only be factory ordered?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtyMarcus]

Coming from a 2014 Silverado and having trucks my entire life, I can say im pretty pleased over all with my 2021 4runner. I do wish it had remote start and push button liftgate. While I know i can add these aftermarket, i felt it should have came standard. Aside from those and the bouncy suspension (which will be fixed once I install a lift) I feel the overall value is good on a 4runner. I would have had to spend $60k to get the features and add-ons that came in the Offroad premium.

 

[Bmnorm2]

In many euro economy cars they are manual transmission diesels with start/stop. Basically as you come to a stop the engine stops when you are in neutral and release the clutch. As soon as you depress the clutch to get started again the engine re-fires. But it's not instant. If you've driven a diesel, you know the delay on start up. So it takes some planning as the light nears being green.

I would very much like to have a hybrid with start stop, but only if it's done properly. The accessories MUST run off the electric system. So things like the AC should keep running when the engine shuts off. The Tundra hybrid is not a very good system for start/stop because the drive unit is behind the engine so your AC and heater, etc will all shut off when you're waiting at a stop light. Toyota's better hybrid designs like the Prius are seamless and work really well. The engine shuts off well before you actually stop at a light anyway, so it's not really start/stop in the same sense. The reason that system is very desirable for me is because it allows you to do things like have a "pet" mode where you can leave the car to keep its self cool while you go into a store. For anyone with a dog - you know how nice that would be.

The other issue that it helps resolve is that idle is bad for modern engines. It may be worse than driving for engine wear. And yet I still see neighbors of mine let their cars idle for long periods of time that is both damaging to the engine and annoying if it's a diesel. Not to mention the air quality issues. It's especially bad for modern diesels emissions systems. I recall some of them will automatically shut down after 3 minutes of idle or something like that. And if you do it two or three times in a row it then will go into limp mode and require a visit to the dealer.

I'm not sure much of this matters. There's one generation of ICE vehicles left. Then it'll be all EV for north america. I'd happily take a GOOD hybrid 4Runner. A Rivian R1S with a range extender ICE setup could be very compelling. I hope Toyota does better than the Tundra hybrid setup based on the EPA numbers. Maybe the tundra hybrid will actually do much better than the epa numbers suggest. But the new 4Runner has to get at least 25mpg and it needs to have enough power that it doesn't have to constantly gear hunt during normal highway driving in the mountains. Turbo would help a lot there.

My statement regarding stop/start and hybrid was intended for automatic only. I've driven a friend's manual w/ stop/start using clutch pedal position and I agree it was perfectly fine. Pay attention at the light and you'll have no issue getting the engine ready to go and shifted into 1st before you need to move.

Also, I was wrong about the type of hybrid system i was trying to state. A mild hybrid can't run electric only or engine only, they always work in parallel.

I should have said: All automatic/clutch pedal-less transmission vehicles with stop/start should either be a full hybrid (FHEV) or a plug-in (PHEV). This enables good pedal response at a stop by applying electric power to the wheels in the short interim while the engine starts and begins to apply power.

100% agree with everything else.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

My statement regarding stop/start and hybrid was intended for automatic only. I've driven a friend's manual w/ stop/start using clutch pedal position and I agree it was perfectly fine. Pay attention at the light and you'll have no issue getting the engine ready to go and shifted into 1st before you need to move.

Also, I was wrong about the type of hybrid system i was trying to state. A mild hybrid can't run electric only or engine only, they always work in parallel.

I should have said: All automatic/clutch pedal-less transmission vehicles with stop/start should either be a full hybrid (FHEV) or a plug-in (PHEV). This enables good pedal response at a stop by applying electric power to the wheels in the short interim while the engine starts and begins to apply power.

100% agree with everything else.

Yep only a matter of time until that 1 second delay is enough to be proven to contribute to an accident.

In the US we won’t all be satisfied buzzing around in manual diesel Ford Ka euro trash mobiles with the manual hand brake [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pavement Tested]

Interested to see what the long term effects will be on engine wear and starter failure from the constant start/stop.

Are starters now considered "wearable parts" like brake pads and tires?

What will the ramifications of continued start ups be on engine wear due to lack of lubrication? The worst time for an engine is at start up.