When you travel....THINK!

[ECUDrummer]

The first time I saw the pictures I thought they scratched it into the rock like some of the other offenders have. Some are saying it was chalk which frankly doesn't offend me very much.

My point about the threats is I doubt they were serious. Idiots say things on FB everyday. It's 99.9999% empty and meaningless.

Don't know what the Fargo trail ride is.

Yeah, I'm arguing on the merits of the threats. While people have the ability to say/type what they want, it doesn't give them the excuse to do so regardless of the situation, regardless of whether it's meaningless or not. I'm one that has no problem voicing my opinion on things online, and even I know when the line has been crossed.

The Fargo trail ride is what I nicknamed the event where this occurred, considering the guy Fargo4x4 was involved in setting up the trail ride.

 

[Jeremy556]

Somewhat related thing here... Sad Mangled Jeeps Left In A River After Plummeting Down A Mountain

Hopefully, this story comes to a good ending similar to how the jeep community helped out here... Imagine how the environmentalist Nazis reacted to this one...with fluids leeching into the river.... I wonder if the jeep forums were blazing with ridicule or solutions.

Whichever day I'm not at top of the world this weekend, I'll be in Marble for BBQ and likely running Schofield Pass. According to the dates in the article, I have driven by these wrecks several times without noticing them. They are lucky, an unusual number of people have died in that same area going off the side.

 

[fargo4x4]

From what my wife just told me, reading on another forum, the BLM sent someone to clean this up today. Top of the World is my back yard, so not much effort for me to get there. I may go anyway with a can of MEK and will confirm its cleanup either way.

Sharpie on sandstone, while dumb, is hardly the end of the world. It would be naturally erased by spring next year in that location. Shot up appliances, TVs, old tires, carving your name into or shooting ancient glyphs is far more worthy of scorn.

If you can confirm it or end up removing it and can get me some proof even if its already cleaned off when you get there i just need proof then ill send you a little reward for your time and any expenses and would totally appreciate it

 

[1engineer]

Man this topic is everywhere I look...

Obviously a stupid and selfish act.....

but the reaction is sometimes worse than the original act. These people have gotten death threats.....
QUOTE]

and that's why internet policing (if not bullying) is such a touchy subject. 99% of people calling this out would not have said ANYTHING if they had been there. A highly publicized example can certainly help to prevent future incidents but as you said the "level" of offense and just as important how its handled by the offenders must be taken into consideration.

I would and have and will again. It's stupid and if you don't call out stupid people don't learn.

 

[LawnDart]

I would and have and will again. It's stupid and if you don't call out stupid people don't learn.

This feels like a byproduct of the internet "i'm special" era, where people must self promote over the option of just shutting the hell up and enjoying nature.

Sometimes you don't have to take a picture and hashtag.

 

[Titanpat57]

I would and have and will again. It's stupid and if you don't call out stupid people don't learn.

Yep...don't lump me in that 99%...if you're an idiot, you'll get more credit then you deserve.

To touch on the bullying aspect of the poor victims of this shit storm they personally created for themselves...people aren't quite as enthralled and excited about you folks as you may imagine...you're probably your biggest fans. Now you have all the notoriety you could ever want...just maybe not the right type.

This feels like a byproduct of the internet "i'm special" era, where people must self promote over the option of just shutting the hell up and enjoying nature.

Sometimes you don't have to take a picture and hashtag.

Very well put.

 

[sn_85]

I would and have and will again. It's stupid and if you don't call out stupid people don't learn.

Nah don't. If you call people out on things and call them stupid it makes you worse than the person who actually committed the offense. Apparently it makes you an internet bully and keyboard warrior.

 

[1engineer]

Nah don't. If you call people out on things and call them stupid it makes you worse than the person who actually committed the offense. Apparently it makes you an internet bully and keyboard warrior.

Real life is what I'm talking about. Not only do I call it out I fully expect someone to call me out when I do stupid, which is more often than I like to admit. The PC culture will be the ruination of us all.

 

[philsey]

... I do stupid, which is more often than I like to admit.
.

 

[jstim]

I believe in leave no trace, I believe in it without a doubt. Pack it in pack it out, save your hashtags for your social media. This is about the closest I get to social media. Now with all that said, I will make my actual point.

1. Whoever wrote it was wrong, but with anything like this, there are only two things you can do. Educate the people who did it, and fix the problem. If you do anything more than that, you've become part of the problem and not part of the solution. As someone who teaches on a fairly regular basis, I can tell you one thing. You can try this experiment on anyone and it will show you virtually the same results. If someone doesn't know something, just start yelling at them, scream at them and tell them how dumb they are, and see if they figure out anything. Probably won't happen, probably run in circles and just end up saying forget it.

2. While most online threats are from nothing more than keyboard warriors. There are the few out there who will take it too far. So if you're willing to stand by, watch a group of like minded people create a mob mentality, and and threaten someone. Whether you fee like it's an actual threat or not, it's not your words so you don't know. If something did happen to this person, you essentially would be in the same group as them. You're standing in the crowd yelling lynch him. So what if you didn't pull the trigger.

3. Common sense isn't common. Just the same as keyboard warriors and the people who will sit here and bash you, are some of, notice I said some of, the same people who don't have the audacity to say something to you in person. They will let you commit your mistake and bash you to an entire community.

How about we come together as a community of overlanders, off roaders, and explorers. How about we encourage people to do the right thing, stop the people we see from doing dumb stuff, and leave every place we go better than we found it.

 

[Antman]

The PC culture will be the ruination of us all.

^^^^This. It's never anyone's fault anymore, even when it absolutely is.

 

[Titanpat57]

^^^^This. It's never anyone's fault anymore, even when it absolutely is.

Thanks for showing up after 5 pages...way to show your support...

only thing missing on that rock was your hashtag..

#imafatloserfrombaltimore

#titanpat57ismy*****

Put that on a rock in MOAB *******

 

[Antman]

Thanks for showing up after 5 pages...way to show your support...

only thing missing on that rock was your hashtag..

#imafatloserfrombaltimore

#titanpat57ismy*****

Put that on a rock in MOAB *******

We've been together long enough for me to know when it's that time of the month for you. So, I forgive you.

 

[Titanpat57]

We've been together long enough for me to know when it's that time of the month for you. So, I forgive you.

and I always love you..

 

[Frat_4runner]

so whats the difference between this picture and that except several centuries? although i think writing your name of your social media account is kinda vain, its not like it hasn't been done since the beginning of time. I'm about to get shamed pretty hard for this, but you guys are getting offended over something that is going to be wiped clean in probably less than a year. personally, i like seeing peoples names and the year they visited a certain spot. its something thats been happening long before anybody was around and whining about it on the internet is not going to make people stop.

 

[PK930]

Yawn. Bad idea? Yep. But who hasn't had bad ideas and carried them out?

Who here is so saintly to say they haven't done stupid shit?

Internet outrage. Wonder if Kony ever got caught...

 

[BrianSD_42]

so whats the difference between this picture and that except several centuries? although i think writing your name of your social media account is kinda vain, its not like it hasn't been done since the beginning of time. .

Why should we even have laws against defacing rocks in the national parks? Why even have national parks at all then?

I'd be interested to know if you think the woman from San Diego who defaced 5+ national parks in a single week (and was convicted for it) got what she deserved. Do you agree with her conviction?

 

[Frat_4runner]

Why should we even have laws against defacing rocks in the national parks? Why even have national parks at all then?

I'd be interested to know if you think the woman from San Diego who defaced 5+ national parks in a single week (and was convicted for it) got what she deserved. Do you agree with her conviction?

i am unfamiliar with the conviction you are referring to, so i can not make a judgement on the case. but what i don't see such a problem with is people writing their names on insignificant spots that you can come back to and remember back on the time you traveled to that certain area. we all think it is neat how the natives have drawn on rocks and made their mark, so why can't people look at my name in 200 years and think I'm neat? HA! with all due respect, why is it that you think a small name in the side of a rock isn't okay, but putting roads that contain all sorts of chemicals along with buildings that emit all kinds of pollution in national parks are okay? and driving your vehicle that leaves rubber marks on rocks that are much more destructive than a name. i just think the effort to conserve should be put towards something that is actually abusive to the environment instead towards something thats just an eyesore.

 

[BrianSD_42]

we all think it is neat how the natives have drawn on rocks and made their mark, so why can't people look at my name in 200 years and think I'm neat? HA!

The fact that you think that is just ... Wow. Pretty shocking, sad and I guess not the least bit surpassing with people these days. Do you get the fact that if 10 people did it, then 100 then a 1000 would do it? I can't believe I have to explain this. Perhaps it is how I was brought up in Scouting or maybe just general values but I don't think marking up OUR National Parks is OK.


About the young woman .... She posted her crimes in Instagram because it was no big deal, encouraging others to do the same. She used acrilic pens and other paint markers.

Her sentence was 200 hours community service, 2 years probation (which I assume sucks a lot) and banned from all US National Parks. She is now a convicted federal criminal. Definitely not something any of us would want on our record.


In 2014 she defaced at a minimum these parks:
* Sept. 23, 2014 — Death Valley National Park at the summit of Telescope Peak
* Sepr. 12, 2014 — Rocky Mountain National Park
* Sept. 13, 2014 — Colorado National Monument on the Monument Canyon Trail.
* Sept. 15, 2014 — Canyonlands National Park on the Neck Spring Trail
* Sept. 17, 2014 — Zion National Park
* Oct. 2, 2014 — Yosemite National Park at the beginning of the John Muir Trail
* Oct. 7, 2014 — Crater Lake National Park


Woman who defaced Western national parks, including 2 in Colorado, pleads guilty
Woman who defaced Western national parks, including 2 in Colorado, pleads guilty ? The Denver Post

Female hiker banned from all US national parks (20 per cent of America) after defacing rock formations with graffiti and posting evidence of her crimes on Instagram
Woman banned from US land for defacing rock formations and posting on Instagram | Daily Mail Online

 

[Titanpat57]

Great idea...always deflect a gargantuan act of stupidity into comparing it with tire tracks ( which are l-e-g-a-l)ssue, or something like that...

Your sense of direction, moral or otherwise, seems to be all fuqed up.

If your comparing glyphs from 1000's of years ago to a bunch of self centered asshats scrolling some inane bullshit on a rock for self gratifacation....if seeking attention was their goal...well...they got what they wanted.

Kinda of like what your up to....