When you travel....THINK!

[jstim]

Not to deflect too far from the issue here. Writing a username on a rock is dumb, painting a rock face is graffiti. That's like comparing high school football and the NFL. Same sport different levels. She got what she deserved.

Now I just want to ask a same ballpark question, to try to understand some of the mindset around here. We all know who Banksy is, at least I hope we do. We all know 99% of his art is wildly illegal, yet different place sell the right to essentially clean it up. What do you think of Banksy's art? It is wildly illegal but has a much deeper message?

Secondly, while we're speaking of asshats ruining essentially what we all agree are national treasures. My home is Alaska, and the majority of my state is covered in state and federal lands. Yet it doesn't keep the tourists from doing much of the same to our lands. Before we jump on the Eco conscious, I know what I'm doing wagon and come after me. I have seen it 100x, from people who've been hunting there whole lives, people who are firm believers in leave no trace, hell I have seen it from granolas who don't believe in anything but the land. Think Denali national park. I don't fault any of them, I accept that people have a lapse of better judgement. The only thing I can do to make it better is fix it. I've hauled out trash, and literally gone to my truck and got a scrub brush to clean the graffiti off. We can conplain about it, or we can teach the next generation what's right, and not stand idly by and watch people do it. Nothing happens without someone else seeing or knowing.

 

[LawnDart]

Don't you guys know that native americans would be totally posting hashtags if they could have 2000 years ago. Totally!

 

[Ike64]

I think the major issue people are bouncing around isn't wether it's a good or bad idea. It's that the people don't really own these trails regardless of what we think. The fact is that someone doing something dumb can give the managers of these areas leverage to push out people who want to use these places in the future like it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[STX4Runner]

I think anyone comparing ancient glyphs to modern graffiti is missing the point. Culture changes and what was once accepted is now not accepted...plus there's now way more people than thousands of years ago.

 

[Jeremy556]

Someone beat me to the large one on the rock that everyone drives on to for photos. I got 3 smaller ones that they missed.

I believe this is where the large one was that had been removed when I arrived this afternoon

These 3 were off to the side

Now

 

[jrandom]

Nice excuse to get out

 

[Frat_4runner]

The fact that you think that is just ... Wow. Pretty shocking, sad and I guess not the least bit surpassing with people these days. Do you get the fact that if 10 people did it, then 100 then a 1000 would do it? I can't believe I have to explain this. Perhaps it is how I was brought up in Scouting or maybe just general values but I don't think marking up OUR National Parks is OK.


About the young woman .... She posted her crimes in Instagram because it was no big deal, encouraging others to do the same. She used acrilic pens and other paint markers.

Her sentence was 200 hours community service, 2 years probation (which I assume sucks a lot) and banned from all US National Parks. She is now a convicted federal criminal. Definitely not something any of us would want on our record.


In 2014 she defaced at a minimum these parks:
* Sept. 23, 2014 — Death Valley National Park at the summit of Telescope Peak
* Sepr. 12, 2014 — Rocky Mountain National Park
* Sept. 13, 2014 — Colorado National Monument on the Monument Canyon Trail.
* Sept. 15, 2014 — Canyonlands National Park on the Neck Spring Trail
* Sept. 17, 2014 — Zion National Park
* Oct. 2, 2014 — Yosemite National Park at the beginning of the John Muir Trail
* Oct. 7, 2014 — Crater Lake National Park


Woman who defaced Western national parks, including 2 in Colorado, pleads guilty
Woman who defaced Western national parks, including 2 in Colorado, pleads guilty ? The Denver Post

Female hiker banned from all US national parks (20 per cent of America) after defacing rock formations with graffiti and posting evidence of her crimes on Instagram
Woman banned from US land for defacing rock formations and posting on Instagram | Daily Mail Online

[EDIT]yes this is outrageous and she deserves much worse than 200 community service hours, but this is very much different than a 5 inch name and date in an area where most people will overlook it. okay i admit the hieroglyphics were a bad example. the picture i have attached is in a privately owned cave my father discovered after buying a piece of property, this name was written in it along with several others that aren't pictured, the most recent one being from 1933 and the oldest is this one from 1909. i think you'd be lying if you said you didn't find this neat or interesting. i have a different opinion than you, and arguing with you on the internet won't change either one of our minds. so there is no reason to try and be condescending. mind you I'm an Eagle Scout and still active with the troop i belonged to.

 

[Jhalko]

Someone beat me to the large one on the rock that everyone drives on to for photos. I got 3 smaller ones that they missed.

I believe this is where the large one was that had been removed when I arrived this afternoon

These 3 were off to the side

Now

[MENTION=78273]Jeremy556[/MENTION] solid work

 

[BrianSD_42]

what i don't see such a problem with is people writing their names on insignificant spots that you can come back to and remember back on the time you traveled to that certain area.

the picture i have attached is in a privately owned cave my father discovered after buying a piece of property, this name was written in it along with several others that aren't pictured, the most recent one being from 1933 and the oldest is this one from 1909. i think you'd be lying if you said you didn't find this neat or interesting. i have a different opinion than you, and arguing with you on the internet won't change either one of our minds.

mind you I'm an Eagle Scout and still active with the troop i belonged to.

[MENTION=128954]Frat_4runner[/MENTION]

Actually I do think the rock on your fathers property is interesting. But that property isn't a national park so these are two very different things. I'm an Eagle Scout as well but that is really besides the point. You really aren't representing Scouting if you are on a trip and endorse or condone someone marking up the national parks (not that I have any idea what you actually teach these kids). Your comments seem to indicate that you condone tagging people's names on rocks in the parks. Defacing the parks is completely against the spirit of scouting, especially "Leave no trace" and I hope you discourage it when you are acting as a role model for these young kids.

BTW the men in the clip below were Boy Scout leaders who destroyed a rock formation at a National Park in Utah. They are now Ex-Boy Scout Leaders and Federal Charges were officially filed against them.

NBC: Charges filed in toppling of ancient Utah rock formation
Charges filed in toppling of ancient Utah rock formation - U.S. News

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/t1ft2q4ckQI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


On a separate note, it is pretty lame that both the dbags who toppled the rock and the woman defacing multiple parks with Graffiti were from San Diego. I believe it is a coincidence.

opcorn:

 

[STX4Runner]

Someone beat me to the large one on the rock that everyone drives on to for photos. I got 3 smaller ones that they missed.

I believe this is where the large one was that had been removed when I arrived this afternoon

These 3 were off to the side

Now

Looks like there was a lot more than just a few social media references up there. I still don't understand how anyone can think this is OK. I've been to this very spot twice, including just back in May and there was nothing like this.

 

[LawnDart]

Travel the world, meet incredible people, put your hashtag on scenic vistas. It's never been a better time to be alive!

First person to put a hashtag on Mars wins the internet for at least 12 hours and a 3-4 percent follower boost!

 

[Jeremy556]

[MENTION=128954]Frat_4runner[/MENTION]

Actually I do think the rock on your fathers property is interesting. But that property isn't a national park so these are two very different things. I'm an Eagle Scout as well but that is really besides the point. You really aren't representing Scouting if you are on a trip and endorse or condone someone marking up the national parks (not that I have any idea what you actually teach these kids). Your comments seem to indicate that you condone tagging people's names on rocks in the parks. Defacing the parks is completely against the spirit of scouting, especially "Leave no trace" and I hope you discourage it when you are acting as a role model for these young kids.

BTW the men in the clip below were Boy Scout leaders who destroyed a rock formation at a National Park in Utah. They are now Ex-Boy Scout Leaders and Federal Charges were officially filed against them.

NBC: Charges filed in toppling of ancient Utah rock formation
Charges filed in toppling of ancient Utah rock formation - U.S. News

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/t1ft2q4ckQI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


On a separate note, it is pretty lame that both the dbags who toppled the rock and the woman defacing multiple parks with Graffiti were from San Diego. I believe it is a coincidence.

opcorn:

Technically, Top of the World is BLM land, not a national or state park and Gobblin Valley is a Utah State Park.

More of a trend than a coincidence, I think. At least 95% of the time I see something incredibly stupid and dangerous happening on the roads around here, I am not surprised at the perpetrators license plate.

Today, on HWY128, a 2 lane highway in the middle of nowhere Utah, speed limit 55mph in a passing zone, I come upon a Lincoln Navigator traveling at 25-30mph. As I pull into the opposite lane to pass, he turns on his left turn signal, so I slow down and crawl behind him for a few minutes. He turns off his signal and continues on at 20+mph below the speed limit, so I begin to pass him, when he turns on his signal and swerves into the oncoming lane, so I slow and get behind him again. He proceeds at 25-30mph with no intention of turning again. At this point I tire of this game and pass him. He signaled and swerved again, but he fortunately thought better of it before hurting himself.

The other day on I70, a small mint green car in the left lane is pacing an overloaded semi truck up a grade at 40mph (75 zone) and backs up traffic for miles. The semi driver notices what is going on and pulls off, at which point the green car speeds up to 90+ to keep anyone from passing them, until they come upon another semi, where they again slow down to block traffic.

 

[jstim]

Technically, Top of the World is BLM land, not a national or state park and Gobblin Valley is a Utah State Park.

More of a trend than a coincidence, I think. At least 95% of the time I see something incredibly stupid and dangerous happening on the roads around here, I am not surprised at the perpetrators license plate.

Today, on HWY128, a 2 lane highway in the middle of nowhere Utah, speed limit 55mph in a passing zone, I come upon a Lincoln Navigator traveling at 25-30mph. As I pull into the opposite lane to pass, he turns on his left turn signal, so I slow down and crawl behind him for a few minutes. He turns off his signal and continues on at 20+mph below the speed limit, so I begin to pass him, when he turns on his signal and swerves into the oncoming lane, so I slow and get behind him again. He proceeds at 25-30mph with no intention of turning again. At this point I tire of this game and pass him. He signaled and swerved again, but he fortunately thought better of it before hurting himself.

The other day on I70, a small mint green car in the left lane is pacing an overloaded semi truck up a grade at 40mph (75 zone) and backs up traffic for miles. The semi driver notices what is going on and pulls off, at which point the green car speeds up to 90+ to keep anyone from passing them, until they come upon another semi, where they again slow down to block traffic.

That's one thing I am happy about. All the scenic highways and byways in Alaska, there are plenty of posted signs that say if you're backing up traffic to pull over. They will ticket you too, don't care whether you're from Nashville or ninilchik.

 

[jrandom]

Technically, Top of the World is BLM land, not a national or state park and Gobblin Valley is a Utah State Park.

More of a trend than a coincidence, I think. At least 95% of the time I see something incredibly stupid and dangerous happening on the roads around here, I am not surprised at the perpetrators license plate.

Today, on HWY128, a 2 lane highway in the middle of nowhere Utah, speed limit 55mph in a passing zone, I come upon a Lincoln Navigator traveling at 25-30mph. As I pull into the opposite lane to pass, he turns on his left turn signal, so I slow down and crawl behind him for a few minutes. He turns off his signal and continues on at 20+mph below the speed limit, so I begin to pass him, when he turns on his signal and swerves into the oncoming lane, so I slow and get behind him again. He proceeds at 25-30mph with no intention of turning again. At this point I tire of this game and pass him. He signaled and swerved again, but he fortunately thought better of it before hurting himself.

The other day on I70, a small mint green car in the left lane is pacing an overloaded semi truck up a grade at 40mph (75 zone) and backs up traffic for miles. The semi driver notices what is going on and pulls off, at which point the green car speeds up to 90+ to keep anyone from passing them, until they come upon another semi, where they again slow down to block traffic.

Not that I always do but I certainly try. I realize when I am away from home and out on a drive, that someone behind me may drive this road daily, multiple times, and knows the road far better than I do. I move over. Even more so, for certain when I can tell I am pissing someone off. I know I get a little erked when someone bears down on me aggressively, I do my best to let it go and remember who the f'k am I to judge why they are in such a hurry.

I hate hearing about and seeing this stuff. Some of these actions that you describe are absolutely narrow minded and will eventually get either party seriously injured or even killed if they haven't already. If anything it incites road rage.

 

[Sled Driver]

While I do agree that death threats and etc. are over the top, if you're shrugging at this and saying to yourself "What's the big deal?" you should probably find a different hobby. Seriously.

Tread. Lightly.

 

[MattAK]

[MENTION=128954]Frat_4runner[/MENTION]
BTW the men in the clip below were Boy Scout leaders who destroyed a rock formation at a National Park in Utah. They are now Ex-Boy Scout Leaders and Federal Charges were officially filed against them.

My dad actually worked once upon a time with that guy that toppled the rock at Goblin Valley. He says the guy was a total jerk and it didn't surprise him at all that he did something like this. Some people are just giant wastes of space.

 

[NVSteve]

My dad actually worked once upon a time with that guy that toppled the rock at Goblin Valley. He says the guy was a total jerk and it didn't surprise him at all that he did something like this. Some people are just giant wastes of space.

Sorry to hear your dad knew the idiot. Truly a waste of skin.

I hit a lot of national parks every year & typically come across at least one glaring instance of stupid things being done by mentally deficient people. I either pipe up and tell them that what they are doing is wrong, or report them to a ranger.

Here's a tour group from China breaking the rules on Double O Arch in Arches NP 2 years ago:

Walking on Arches
To promote visitor safety and the opportunity to view natural features undisturbed, climbing, scrambling, walking or standing upon, or rappelling off any named and unnamed arch with an opening greater than three feet is prohibited in the park.

 

[Titanpat57]

This thread was refereed today as "the boohoo" thread...and here's what I have to say about that...if that's all that you get out of this entire shitstorm is a bunch of whining, then as stated above "you need to find another hobby".

Defacing a public landmark, in case your moral compass has lost direction, is flat out wrong. I wonder what you would think if some ahole came up and wrote "I love Lucy" in green spray paint on the side of your house or your vehicle...same difference...someone is destroying your property. Plenty of people have weighed in on this issue across a whole bunch of threads, and I think you could count on one hand the people that thought it wasn't a big deal.

I'm going to ask [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] to lock this down, so it'll go away. I think the company involved here across several different names, got a dose of reality, and hopefully learned a valuable lesson. I'm sure in the future, they will make sure no one in their group drags their company name into an unneeded controversy like this again.

Our public lands are sacred lands, they will soon all be gone before you know it. No one has the right to litter, deface, or damage what very little is left. Huge kudos to those of you that lead responsible trail groups, follow and stay on the marked trails, respect nature, and clean up after the asswipes that are too stupid to clean up after themselves.

Think!

 

[1engineer]

This thread was refereed today as "the boohoo" thread...and here's what I have to say about that...if that's all that you get out of this entire shitstorm is a bunch of whining, then as stated above "you need to find another hobby".

Defacing a public landmark, in case your moral compass has lost direction, is flat out wrong. I wonder what you would think if some ahole came up and wrote "I love Lucy" in green spray paint on the side of your house or your vehicle...same difference...someone is destroying your property. Plenty of people have weighed in on this issue across a whole bunch of threads, and I think you could count on one hand the people that thought it wasn't a big deal.

I'm going to ask [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] to lock this down, so it'll go away. I think the company involved here across several different names, got a dose of reality, and hopefully learned a valuable lesson. I'm sure in the future, they will make sure no one in their group drags their company name into an unneeded controversy like this again.

Our public lands are sacred lands, they will soon all be gone before you know it. No one has the right to litter, deface, or damage what very little is left. Huge kudos to those of you that lead responsible trail groups, follow and stay on the marked trails, respect nature, and clean up after the asswipes that are too stupid to clean up after themselves.

Think!

Done.

-mod-