Why do FJ Guys Think they own Jeep Rubicons?

[wadle5]

Spacewise it seems smaller to them, I just let them roll with it. The suicide doors smaller cabin make it feel like it has a smaller footrprint. Trust me I don't justify it, just what they tell me. . .I just always shake my head and agree with thme

 

[Thai]

I actually just went on a pretty tough run with some FJ guys in San Diego and wanted to say it is a legit trail ride. We went over huge boulders requiring crazy approach angles. I don't think even a lifted 5th gen would have been capable.

What is the approach angle of your 3rd gen vs. 5th gen? Breakover? Departure? Are you saying that your 3rd gen 4runner angles are the same as FJ??

Isn't the FJ about as wide as 4runner 5th gen?

EDIT:

FJ:
Length = 183.9
Width = 75
Approach = 34
Departure = 31
Breakover = 27

TE (5th gen):
Length = 189.9
Width = 75.8
Approach = 33
Departure = 26
Breakover = 24 (my guess)

3rd gen:
Length = 183.3
Width = 70.9
Approach = 35
Departure = 28
Breakover = 24 (my guess)

 

[BrianSD_42]

Actually Toyota was the one who ruined the 4Runner by designing it so big. They are also to blame for the new Tundras (which I dislike)

 

[BrianSD_42]

My point was and is.... park ANY vehicle at the head of the trail Jeep, Dodge, Toyota, Chevy, Suzuki, Ford, Nissan, or Hummer, and the are all 100% equal until someone gets in it to drive

Seriously? I think what you meant to say is that even a great platform can fail in the hands of an incompetent driver. But to argue that a 97 ford explorer or Dodge Durango and 97 4runner are trail equals.. well I disagree.

 

[TOY2G]

What is the approach angle of your 3rd gen vs. 5th gen? Breakover? Departure? Are you saying that your 3rd gen 4runner angles are the same as FJ??

Isn't the FJ about as wide as 4runner 5th gen?

NO WAY man the FJ is 1/2 inch narrower...and 5 1/2 inches shorter. LOL The 4runner is WAY Bigger.....?

Actually Toyota was the one who ruined the 4Runner by designing it so big. They are also to blame for the new Tundras (which I dislike)

ALL SUVs have gotten bigger 4runner, Explorer, Armada, Trail Blazer, Sportage. ALL are getting larger because we keep getting fatter and we keep wanting more room. If you don't like SUVs larger than your 3rd gen, you are going to have to cross.............EVERYTHING NEW...... off your future purchase list. As far as the Tundra for 2013 I agree that it is an eye sore. But still a pretty amazing vehicle consider the components used.

 

[TOY2G]

Seriously? I think what you meant to say is that even a great platform can fail in the hands of an incompetent driver. But to argue that a 97 ford explorer or Dodge Durango and 97 4runner are trail equals.. well I disagree.

I said what I meant. BONE STOCK (highway tires and all) 97 4runner, rodeo, explorer, durango (may be better because it came with a v8), Pathfinder, wrangler or Blazer; you have very similar vehicle dimensions. two comes with an optional V8 and may have more power, 4 had an optional off road pkg that can help with traction, once comes with a ZR2 Pkg that offers lift, tires, and locker, One comes with a TRD package with tires and a locker, one has an off road pkg with just traction control and a full size spare, one comes with dana Dana Solid axles, But all things considered, not one of these vehicle given a range of off road testes would clean house. One is not the BEST at everything. As an average (as off road capabilities go) most of them are equal, with a few runts in the mix.

We buy Toyota because we have particular tastes in vehicles. We want something Nice, long lasting, that holds value and will not be in the shop a dozen times before it his 100k miles. We also want something that wheels respectably, and with "most" of the Toyota 4x4 line, we get exactly that. However the FJ is not the end al be all of off road vehicles, and IMO neither is the Jeep, or any 4runner. I chose 4runners because they fit ME.

 

[TOY2G]

Spacewise it seems smaller to them, I just let them roll with it. The suicide doors smaller cabin make it feel like it has a smaller footrprint. Trust me I don't justify it, just what they tell me. . .I just always shake my head and agree with thme

I was not bashing them. The even when you drive it feels smaller due to the cabin design.

 

[aha2988]

[MENTION=68704]superman3043[/MENTION] what was that vehicle we schooled at gulches, it was an f something.. oh yeah an FJ lol.... something about his truck was to wide for one trail.. to short of wheel base for some hill climb..

I remember his coment now.. "4runners seem to have the perfect wheel base out of the toyota's"

 

[KCcarguy]

Wow. I have a friend with a FJ and we get along pretty good. He's helped me out a ton with mods and advice because it basically THE SAME TRUCK. There are some advantages to the FJ because it's more focused in it's design, but those come with reduced cargo capacity, comfort, etc.

And let's be honest, a Rubicon will kick both their asses off-road. It's a whole different animal....even more focused in it's design than the FJ. We all chose how much comfort/ practicality we wanted to sacrifice for off-road ability because of individual priorities. Can't we just be happy with our choices and move on?

 

[rebelbowtie]

I never really understood the chest pounding and sense of superiority. I worked with a Jeep guy and he was all caught up in that his GC was better than my 4R. My take is, we both like to off-road and be outdoors. Can't we agree that lifted off-road trucks are cooler than dropped ricers with fart can mufflers? Why do we have to argue about whose off-road rig is better stock when none of us keep them stock. It's like arguing about the best Gen 4Runner, stupid cause they're all good...

Here is a couple of photos I wanted to post on the Jeep forum, one is a highly modified WK2 and the other is my bone stock 4th gen T4R which one do you think would be better off road?

It's no Wrangler or XJ but it will no doubt in my mind out wheel any IFS Jeep

 

[BrianSD_42]

And let's be honest, a Rubicon will kick both their asses off-road. It's a whole different animal....even more focused in it's design than the FJ.

OK so I rode through Hollister Hills OHV park (California) in a stock 2007 Rubicon and it was far from "all that" . People spend XXX $cash on a Rubicon edition and I was surprised by how poorly it performed.

A friend of mine wants to buy a jeep and I told him they are pretty good on the trail but just don't buy into the trail rated crap advertising. Find a good one and set aside a few grand for a real lift kit because stock, even Rubicon is very overrated.

 

[downpour11]

^^^ Brian's post reminded me of this Jeep commercial a while back about skid plates that made me laugh

 

[rebelbowtie]

OK so I rode through Hollister Hills OHV park (California) in a stock 2007 Rubicon and it was far from "all that" . People spend XXX $cash on a Rubicon edition and I was surprised by how poorly it performed.

A friend of mine wants to buy a jeep and I told him they are pretty good on the trail but just don't buy into the trail rated crap advertising. Find a good one and set aside a few grand for a real lift kit because stock, even Rubicon is very overrated.

The rubicon doesn't have a a "real" D44 and it's "crawl" ratio is too low for a lot of situations and still too high for others. Out of the box it's truthfully the most capable trail vehicle and is good if you want to leave the vehicle stock. Once you begin to modify it though all the "goodies" get thrown out like most other factory off road packaged vehicles. A properly modified TJ or JK if bought used is cheaper and more capable than the Rubicon edition could ever be.

 

[TOY2G]

OK so I rode through Hollister Hills OHV park (California) in a stock 2007 Rubicon and it was far from "all that" . People spend XXX $cash on a Rubicon edition and I was surprised by how poorly it performed.

A friend of mine wants to buy a jeep and I told him they are pretty good on the trail but just don't buy into the trail rated crap advertising. Find a good one and set aside a few grand for a real lift kit because stock, even Rubicon is very overrated.

Dont get me wrong Jeep is not all that, if it were i would still own one of mine. But a wrangler rubicon is cheaper than my 4runner but it feels cheaper also.

The rubicon doesn't have a a "real" D44 and it's "crawl" ratio is too low for a lot of situations and still too high for others. Out of the box it's truthfully the most capable trail vehicle and is good if you want to leave the vehicle stock. Once you begin to modify it though all the "goodies" get thrown out like most other factory off road packaged vehicles. A properly modified TJ or JK if bought used is cheaper and more capable than the Rubicon edition could ever be.

not sure what a "real" dana44 is, but the Rubi does come with a real 30 splined dand 44 and front and rear lockers. I can tell you when I built mine (2004 TJ) i lifted it, did bumpers, winch, and tires, but the goodies (dana 44s, lockers) I kept, in fact i don't know anyone who has thrown them out. As far as crawl ratio, there is no too low (note the word CRAWL) lol. Even still I will take my overpriced 4runner over a new JK any day.

However claiming that a modded jeep is better than a rubi any day.. that is really a silly statement, jeep lifts to clear 35s are cheap $300, bumpers $350 so to have a lifted, locked, armored jeep rubi for less than a thousand bucks in accessories. what other vehicle can you do that with? Properly modded could mean so many things. A properly modded suzuki sidekick could be cheaper and better off road than a T4R. A properly modded VW bug could be better and cheaper than a jeep rubicon...exc..

 

[Thai]

The rubicon doesn't have a a "real" D44 and it's "crawl" ratio is too low for a lot of situations and still too high for others. Out of the box it's truthfully the most capable trail vehicle and is good if you want to leave the vehicle stock. Once you begin to modify it though all the "goodies" get thrown out like most other factory off road packaged vehicles. A properly modified TJ or JK if bought used is cheaper and more capable than the Rubicon edition could ever be.

Sorry, i have no idea what you're talking about. What is a "real" D44?? Actually, the JK Rubicon has D44H...a hybrid version of D44 that is arguably STRONGER than the run-of-the-mill D44s. I have NEVER heard anyone complaining about a CRAWL ratio being too low!! Most off-roaders would give their left nut for a CRAWL ratio of 70+! If it is too low, then you don't know how to off-road nor shift. And you can always get the automatic if it is "too low."

How about this...i challenge ANYONE to buy a new JK (regular model) and build it up to Rubicon's equipment level...and i bet that it will cost MORE than the factory Rubicon! Rubicon gears are not cheap stuff nor are they of low quality. The axles are stronger than anything Toyota has ever put in their 4runners!

Don't forget the factory Rubicon comes with a proven hardcore 4:1 transfer case, front axles disco's, strong as anything aftermarket LOCKERS, etc.. Yeah, you can improve its skids, bigger tires, etc.. But, to be honest, i would NOT do anything else to a stock Rubicon because all the terrain that i would use it for, a stock Rubicon should be enough...because anything more hardcore will compromise its on-road behavior even more.

 

[Thai]

OK so I rode through Hollister Hills OHV park (California) in a stock 2007 Rubicon and it was far from "all that" . People spend XXX $cash on a Rubicon edition and I was surprised by how poorly it performed.

What were you expecting? Did you think that a stock 4runner would be better? Maybe your expectation was too high?

How much do you think the Rubicon costs? How does a 4runner Trail cost? Is cost related to capability? If so, then 4runner Trail is definitely way overprice! How much does a FJ Special Ed cost?

EDIT: more info on Rubi: http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/wrangler_2007/firstdrive/index.asp

"The Rubicon models feature upgraded Dana 44 axles with lockers in each end. They include larger pinion shafts and bearings, axle joints and ring gears, which should translate into more durability."

 

[rebelbowtie]

Sorry, i have no idea what you're talking about. What is a "real" D44?? Actually, the JK Rubicon has D44H...a hybrid version of D44 that is arguably STRONGER than the run-of-the-mill D44s. I have NEVER heard anyone complaining about a CRAWL ratio being too low!! Most off-roaders would give their left nut for a CRAWL ratio of 70+! If it is too low, then you don't know how to off-road nor shift. And you can always get the automatic if it is "too low."

How about this...i challenge ANYONE to buy a new JK (regular model) and build it up to Rubicon's equipment level...and i bet that it will cost MORE than the factory Rubicon! Rubicon gears are not cheap stuff nor are they of low quality. The axles are stronger than anything Toyota has ever put in their 4runners!

Don't forget the factory Rubicon comes with a proven hardcore 4:1 transfer case, front axles disco's, strong as anything aftermarket LOCKERS, etc.. Yeah, you can improve its skids, bigger tires, etc.. But, to be honest, i would NOT do anything else to a stock Rubicon because all the terrain that i would use it for, a stock Rubicon should be enough...because anything more hardcore will compromise its on-road behavior even more.

The only person that would argue that is you, the D44 that's in the Rubicon is a glorified D30 since the only thing that's upgraded is the pinion size. Your axle tubes, ball joints, unit bearings and "C" and shafts are the same size as a D30. Sooo anything that's gonna break on a regular TJ/JK will break in a Rubi. And the Rubicon D44 is a low pinion axle which reduces ground clearance and yet another strength issue.... And absolutely a fact that the 4:1 transfer case is too low for sand or mud, it's really only suited for crawling.

 

[Thai]

The only person that would argue that is you, the D44 that's in the Rubicon is a glorified D30 since the only thing that's upgraded is the pinion size. Your axle tubes, ball joints, unit bearings and "C" and shafts are the same size as a D30. Sooo anything that's gonna break on a regular TJ/JK will break in a Rubi. And the Rubicon D44 is a low pinion axle which reduces ground clearance and yet another strength issue.... And absolutely a fact that the 4:1 transfer case is too low for sand or mud, it's really only suited for crawling.

That may have been the case with TJ Rubi D44...but are you sure about JK D44?? Source of JK D44 info you posted?? Hopefully, you're not transferring TJ Jeep Rubi stuff onto JK Jeep Rubi???? I hate to prove you wrong AGAIN.

JP magazine once did an article on the JK D44...only the knuckles are shared with JK D30, the rest of the stuff is at a higher level...the tubes were stronger and thicker on the JK axles. The tube on the TJ is 2.5" OD x .25" wall, while the JK is 2.75" OD x 0.375" wall DOM. Aparently, JK D44 also has very strong pinion...I believe that the front is high pinion....

JK D44 vs. TJ D44:
•Ring gear is 8.8", up from 8.5"
•Thicker pinion gear and shaft as well
•Larger disk brakes
•Front axles have 1350 series joints, up front 760 series joints
•50% stronger axle bracketry
•80% increase in strength on axle tubes

In addition to above:
JK D44 - its actually a D44 HD -heavy duty
- 32-spline shafts
- electric lockers
- 65" WMS
- all brackets are in different location than a TJ
- 5 on 5 bolt pattern
- steering setup is different than TJ

TJ D44
- 30-spline shafts
- air lockers
- 60.5" WMS
- 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern

The JK D44s are much beefier than the TJ D44s in almost every aspect. They are basically Dana's upgraded version of the D44...and apparently the strongest D44 Dana makes! The housing and tubes are stronger and bigger. The ring gears are even larger. The rear axles in the Rubi JK D44 are 32 spline. The JK Rubi lockers are electric versus the TJ's air actuated ones. The front D44 from the JK is also high pinion.

AND YES, anything is breakable with the off-roading crowd...but that hardly means that D44H is a POS!

 

[Thai]

. A properly modified TJ or JK if bought used is cheaper and more capable than the Rubicon edition could ever be.

Forgot one more thing, a stock Rubicon comes with factory warranty and the option of extended warranty on all factory and Jeep accessories. One can also buy a used Rubicon and mod from there.

 

[KidVermicious]

absolutely a fact that the 4:1 transfer case is too low for sand or mud, it's really only suited for crawling.

Who uses low range in sand or mud? High torque low wheel speed is exactly what you DON'T want in the slippery stuff, you want those wheels spinning as fast as possible when you're swimming. I know you've had a couple trucks in your time, but sometimes you come up with stuff like this that makes absolutely no sense.

Anybody spending a lot of time in sand or mud is going to build a rig dedicated to that terrain, and it's generally going to suck at anything else and be generally unsuited for general roaming and traversing rough terrain, which is exactly the crowd the 4Runner and Wrangler are aimed at, and exactly the kind of stuff that an extra low range transfer case is intended to help with. Not many people drop coin on a brand new Rubicon so they can destroy it in a mud bog.