I will look into replacing the body mounts that's a good idea. But I've run with extended links and without sway bar entirely without any effect. Have replaced front UCAs and bushings but have not gotten to rear control arms yet as they looked relatively new from PO. Good info tho. Couldn't hurt to replace more bushings
Why do my New KING Shocks ride like crap?
- Thread starter Mutant
- Start date
I will look into replacing the body mounts that's a good idea. But I've run with extended links and without sway bar entirely without any effect. Have replaced front UCAs and bushings but have not gotten to rear control arms yet as they looked relatively new from PO. Good info tho. Couldn't hurt to replace more bushings
Renegade_Medic
New member
As others have said, definitely 700 pounds springs are way too high, even with a winch and bumper. My F250 has front springs in the neighborhood of 1250 lbs/in and rears nearly double that. I know what a stiff/jarring ride feels like.
I'm running the Toytech/Eibach 620# springs on the front with Bilstein 5100. When I had no extra weight on the front it rode OK, but once I added a winch, and then bumper, it rides fantastic.
Out back I have OME 891, again with Bilstein 5100, I believe from a later 4R/FJ. They are custom for the 3rd gen from Wheelers offroad. I also added a heavy 1/4" plate bumper, with swing out, a full size spare (33"), and cargo drawers. This necessitated the addition of air bags.
At no point, even when bone stock weight, was the ride jarring or bad. In fact, I think the rear end still felt too soft with no weight and 891s. I have load range D tires (285/70R17) and they are kept at 45 PSI, so if I someone was going to have a rough ride due to tires, it would be me.
What I'm getting at is there are possibly 2 things going on here, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence.
One, your expectations or interpretation of what a harsh ride is may not be the same as everyone else's. At the end of the day, these trucks are nearing 25 year old design tech. Also, add wear and tear to bushings and other things can add to NVH. Check out your suspension bushings, if you haven't already.
Two, you are continuing to use too heavy rating of suspension components. 700 pound springs are way too high. Period. It's also likely that since you moved between several coils and kept basically the same shocks, your shocks ARE NOT valved correctly. If they are too harsh for you, reduce your bump damping, by quite a bit.
Again, I know Bilstein's are not KING shocks, but I have no complaints whatsoever with mine, other than that the rear shocks may be a little too soft, but heavier spring (air lift 1000 bags) made up for that.
Good luck on your search.
I'm running the Toytech/Eibach 620# springs on the front with Bilstein 5100. When I had no extra weight on the front it rode OK, but once I added a winch, and then bumper, it rides fantastic.
Out back I have OME 891, again with Bilstein 5100, I believe from a later 4R/FJ. They are custom for the 3rd gen from Wheelers offroad. I also added a heavy 1/4" plate bumper, with swing out, a full size spare (33"), and cargo drawers. This necessitated the addition of air bags.
At no point, even when bone stock weight, was the ride jarring or bad. In fact, I think the rear end still felt too soft with no weight and 891s. I have load range D tires (285/70R17) and they are kept at 45 PSI, so if I someone was going to have a rough ride due to tires, it would be me.
What I'm getting at is there are possibly 2 things going on here, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence.
One, your expectations or interpretation of what a harsh ride is may not be the same as everyone else's. At the end of the day, these trucks are nearing 25 year old design tech. Also, add wear and tear to bushings and other things can add to NVH. Check out your suspension bushings, if you haven't already.
Two, you are continuing to use too heavy rating of suspension components. 700 pound springs are way too high. Period. It's also likely that since you moved between several coils and kept basically the same shocks, your shocks ARE NOT valved correctly. If they are too harsh for you, reduce your bump damping, by quite a bit.
Again, I know Bilstein's are not KING shocks, but I have no complaints whatsoever with mine, other than that the rear shocks may be a little too soft, but heavier spring (air lift 1000 bags) made up for that.
Good luck on your search.
Thanks for the info. I hear what you are saying but this is the first time I've tried 700lb fronts as an experiment/possible solution to the rough ride I had with the softer coils. And the rear is always far worse than the front. I could live with the front but the rear is unbearable. Ive replaced some bushings but not all. Ill replace more bushings and that will probably help some but I just don't expect that will make the huge change that's needed. But I could be wrong.
What is so baffling to me is that there's no difference in ride between Bilstein 620lb coilovers and KING 700 lb coilovers. They ride the same. Each with different valving. From the responses here it sounds like it must be some combination of body mounts/bushings I have overlooked that need replaced.
Thanks everyone for responses.
sleepydad
Senior Member
[MENTION=148199]Mutant[/MENTION]
one other thing. my 4runner is my fun adventure truck, but I do daily it in the summer months.
this is my daily driver
<a href="https://imgur.com/Owmw7ba"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Owmw7bal.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
love them or hate them rovers drive like silk. cost of ownership is much higher than other things for sure. you don't own one to save money.
but one thing I have noticed is the range rover bushings on control arms and all the suspension interlinks are very soft and are not poly. I have run poly bushing before and I think they are much harsher than softer rubber bushing.
the softer rubber bushing wear out faster for sure but it's a trade off.
the overall ride is a sum of all the parts, I think as your finding... each little part contributes and you have to address all of them if your going for gold and trying to empty your wallet.
one other thing. my 4runner is my fun adventure truck, but I do daily it in the summer months.
this is my daily driver
<a href="https://imgur.com/Owmw7ba"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Owmw7bal.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
love them or hate them rovers drive like silk. cost of ownership is much higher than other things for sure. you don't own one to save money.
but one thing I have noticed is the range rover bushings on control arms and all the suspension interlinks are very soft and are not poly. I have run poly bushing before and I think they are much harsher than softer rubber bushing.
the softer rubber bushing wear out faster for sure but it's a trade off.
the overall ride is a sum of all the parts, I think as your finding... each little part contributes and you have to address all of them if your going for gold and trying to empty your wallet.
FlipStyle54
New member
What PSI are you running your tires at?
40 generally
Scramble
New member
Condescending? Yes! - Shithead? Maybe! I remember your 861 thread. Did you follow all of our recommendations? You cant run 861's with the old Boss shocks. I dont see any mention in this thread of upgraded shocks. How do 861's wear out in a few months? LOL
Here's a reminder:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/237575-861-vs-891-vs-superflex-coils-rear-weight.html
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BrianSD_42
New member
Ok first thing dude 700 lb coil ... I'm pretty sure that alone explains the most of the rough ride issues.
The default King coil for a Tacoma / 4Runner based on factory weight + a front bumper is the 600 coil.
I'm pretty confident this is the case because:
1) it is what they sell to as a vendor to sites as default config for our trucks/Tacomas and
2) I called King on the phone and they confirmed 600 coil is the right size unless you are running a huge amount of extra weight, then go to 650.
I have the 600 weight coil and trying to find the right # turns to get just 2" lift and not ride to rough led me to call their tech support line. I was told that switching to a 650+ coil will always ride rougher than a 600 coil and you don't really need to switch to a 650 coil unless you have A LOT of front end extra weight. I only have skid plates and a front bumper. No winch, so he advised I just put a few more turns on my 600 coil overs to bring it up to 2" lift. I did that and it rides fine.
So you have 700 lb coils, that is going to be even rougher. What is your ride height by the way?
:uzi:
The default King coil for a Tacoma / 4Runner based on factory weight + a front bumper is the 600 coil.
I'm pretty confident this is the case because:
1) it is what they sell to as a vendor to sites as default config for our trucks/Tacomas and
2) I called King on the phone and they confirmed 600 coil is the right size unless you are running a huge amount of extra weight, then go to 650.
I have the 600 weight coil and trying to find the right # turns to get just 2" lift and not ride to rough led me to call their tech support line. I was told that switching to a 650+ coil will always ride rougher than a 600 coil and you don't really need to switch to a 650 coil unless you have A LOT of front end extra weight. I only have skid plates and a front bumper. No winch, so he advised I just put a few more turns on my 600 coil overs to bring it up to 2" lift. I did that and it rides fine.
So you have 700 lb coils, that is going to be even rougher. What is your ride height by the way?
:uzi:
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Good info. It's hard to choose between soft or durable since I work out of 4Runner and ideally need both.
Nice looking Rover.
Now you've made me want to share my pics
4Runner is the trail maker I take down the roughest right of ways and use like an ATV mowing through the mesquite. Thing goes everywhere and takes a lot of abuse.
Recently got the 200 Series Land Cruiser that's a lot more comfortable for use in slightly less destructive environments. It's like driving a plush tank.
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[MENTION=7105]Scramble[/MENTION]
Are you still blathering? How dumb can you possibly be...I said I replaced all shocks with KINGs. I never said 861s are worn out. Coils have a break in period during which they settle some. There is no point to anything you've written. Please step away from the forum.
Are you still blathering? How dumb can you possibly be...I said I replaced all shocks with KINGs. I never said 861s are worn out. Coils have a break in period during which they settle some. There is no point to anything you've written. Please step away from the forum.
I appreciate the response but as most of the folks here you missed the part where I said I previously had 620lb coilovers that road poorly and Toytec told me they're too soft, so these 700 lbs are experimenting with solutions. The coils are not the problem. The truck rides rough with any coil. The rear rides rough too after multiple configurations of coils and shocks.
And I do have my truck overloaded around 5500 lbs daily. I know that's a bit much but it has held up for 2 years like this and is worth it to me to run it like this. I just need to smooth out the ride quality if possible.
Ride height is about 3" over stock f&r
Other responses here lead me to believe replacing the body mounts are the next step. I'm sure they are trash by now.
FlipStyle54
New member
See if dropping down to 36psi makes a difference. 4 lbs made a world of difference in ride quality on my Toyos
Definitely worth a try!
BrianSD_42
New member
Trust me, it is the 700 lb springs, not even designed for this truck to be run with, that are causing the problem. A 10% drop in tire pressure is pretty doubtful to make much of a difference.
Sure OP go ahead and try this mainly because why not I guess. But also try switching to more appropriate springs as well as the other suggestions Scrabble gave.
BrianSD_42
New member
Ok you really shouldn't compare 620 Toytec coils to 600 King. Different spring manufacturer, different shock design, different metal. What you should do is call the vendor KING and honestly take their advice. I don't believe they would have ever pointed you to 700 lb springs.
It also won't hurt if you avoid telling members to f-off. Trust me, it won't work out in the long run. Everyone here has a right to disagree and call out falsehoods or misunderstandings. In fact we are supposed to do that so that misinformation isn't spread around the forum.
theesotericone
New member
Why not? It seems to work pretty well for Trump.:hurt:
Scramble
New member
LOL, I'm not that smart but I'm not the one who went through 4 sets of springs without figuring out what my other issues are. Have a nice day!
eace:[MENTION=65101]BrianSD_42[/MENTION],
While I appreciate your advice, you are off base. I am not disputing that 700lbs is too much. I'm sure it is. As I've written several times now the 700lb coilovers were an experiment to see if the front of the truck will ride differently from the 620 Bilsteins. It doesn't. Now are you telling me that a 620Bilstein and a 700KING will ride exactly the same???
And for the question that you seem to ignore... Why does the rear of the truck ride poorly despite what coil and shock is installed? So if you can for a moment forget about the front and focus on the rear only. The rear seems to ride like shit no matter what is installed. It is MUCH WORSE THAN THE FRONT. This was the underlying question. Other members have convinced me that body mounts/bushings may fix it. They are probably right.
As for your buddy scramble I don't know what to tell you. I am respectful to everyone here until they are not. If he wants to act like a twat I will treat him like one. I come here seeking info and everyone is helpful and normal except him. I never told anyone to f-off as you said but maybe I should? If you two can't comprehend what is written you should not feel obligated to write a bunch of insulting bs. Instead you can click on something else and enjoy your day!!!
While I appreciate your advice, you are off base. I am not disputing that 700lbs is too much. I'm sure it is. As I've written several times now the 700lb coilovers were an experiment to see if the front of the truck will ride differently from the 620 Bilsteins. It doesn't. Now are you telling me that a 620Bilstein and a 700KING will ride exactly the same???
And for the question that you seem to ignore... Why does the rear of the truck ride poorly despite what coil and shock is installed? So if you can for a moment forget about the front and focus on the rear only. The rear seems to ride like shit no matter what is installed. It is MUCH WORSE THAN THE FRONT. This was the underlying question. Other members have convinced me that body mounts/bushings may fix it. They are probably right.
As for your buddy scramble I don't know what to tell you. I am respectful to everyone here until they are not. If he wants to act like a twat I will treat him like one. I come here seeking info and everyone is helpful and normal except him. I never told anyone to f-off as you said but maybe I should? If you two can't comprehend what is written you should not feel obligated to write a bunch of insulting bs. Instead you can click on something else and enjoy your day!!!
Rather than just throwing money at the problem until it’s finally resolved, you should follow a logical progression of troubleshooting.
1) call the manufacturer of the shocks and ask them for a recommended spring rate based upon your use of JR vehicle and your vehicle load during that use.
2) install said recommended springs and drive around for a couple of weeks.
3) if still not to your desired ride, call the shock manufacturer back and provide feedback as what the truck is doing now as compared to earlier and where you still would like improvement.
4) perform said recommended changes from shock manufacturer. If not recommendations made, speak to an off-road shop that has extensive knowledge of suspension setups and take their advice.
5) if desired ride is still not achieved, throw in a pair of airbags for your additional load in the rear.
On a side note, I’m not sure how you are rolling at 5500lbs every day. My buddy with a 2013 Taco has full 1/4” plate armor, 285s, heavy (150lbs) ass tool box in the bed, and his daily weight is 5200lbs.
I roll with approximately 350-400 lbs of gear daily (contractor) and I’m only tipping the scales at 4700-4800lbs and I have the 4.7l under the hood
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1) call the manufacturer of the shocks and ask them for a recommended spring rate based upon your use of JR vehicle and your vehicle load during that use.
2) install said recommended springs and drive around for a couple of weeks.
3) if still not to your desired ride, call the shock manufacturer back and provide feedback as what the truck is doing now as compared to earlier and where you still would like improvement.
4) perform said recommended changes from shock manufacturer. If not recommendations made, speak to an off-road shop that has extensive knowledge of suspension setups and take their advice.
5) if desired ride is still not achieved, throw in a pair of airbags for your additional load in the rear.
On a side note, I’m not sure how you are rolling at 5500lbs every day. My buddy with a 2013 Taco has full 1/4” plate armor, 285s, heavy (150lbs) ass tool box in the bed, and his daily weight is 5200lbs.
I roll with approximately 350-400 lbs of gear daily (contractor) and I’m only tipping the scales at 4700-4800lbs and I have the 4.7l under the hood
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BrianSD_42
New member
I can't speak to the rear as I have OEM LC springs and shocks which ride really great. I wouldn't buy King or any brand for rear, at least for my setup with a low weight rear end.
As for this, I definitely am not saying the 620 and 700 King will ride the same. What I said.
My suggestion to whomever is reading this down the road ... Call the vendor before you buy. They can certainly advise on the best setup for your specific truck based on the mods and weight. A lot of places resell King. Many can speak some knowledge but few really know the hard details. I assume Toytech does because their reputation is so good but I'd guess among resellers they are the exception not the rule.
As for this, I definitely am not saying the 620 and 700 King will ride the same. What I said.
is that you shouldn't compare and contrast spring weights between different coil over manufacturers like 1+2=3. Maybe the 600 King rides similar to the 620 Toytech ... Maybe. But just because 600 and 620 are closer together in numerical form doesn't mean these two totally different setups will ride anything alike.
My suggestion to whomever is reading this down the road ... Call the vendor before you buy. They can certainly advise on the best setup for your specific truck based on the mods and weight. A lot of places resell King. Many can speak some knowledge but few really know the hard details. I assume Toytech does because their reputation is so good but I'd guess among resellers they are the exception not the rule.
