Why does Toyota say the frame is the WRONG spot to put jack stands in the rear?

[foo]

Frankly, I'm mystified that this thread even exists. Put the jackstands on the frame rails (or under the axle if that suits whatever purpose you have) and be done with it. The OP is making waay too much of the factory "recommendation".

When this thread was started, it wasn't clear that people used the conventional 6-ton jack stands on the frame rails in the rear with the jack stands placed in the abnormal parallel position (because they won't fit in the standard perpendicular position without risking damage to the fuel tank).

Also, it was clear that Toyota did NOT recommend any other location but the axle in their diagrams.

Subsequently, TheDurk showed that Toyota recommends just "the frame" when working on the rear suspension; however Toyota gives no guidance as to where on the frame.

At this point, I think we have a general consensus to use the axle for all but suspension work, and for suspension work, the frame rails work fine if you're comfortable putting the jack stands in the non-standard (parallel) configuration.

 

[mtbtim]

For the front of the truck, I'll use the hydraulic jack on the ends of the transmission cross member to raise the vehicle and then rest the truck onto 6 ton jack stands on the frame, one side at a time.

For the rear, I get a hydraulic jack under the center of the differential and will choose one of two spots for the 6 ton jack stands. If I'm doing rear suspension work, I'll choose the same location on the frame that [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] uses along the side of the gas tank in front of the rear control arms on the driver side and directly opposite on the other side. If I'm not doing rear suspension work, I'll put jack stands on each end of the rear axle and rest the truck on the axle.

You cannot go wrong by supporting the truck on the main structure of the frame. Why Toyota doesn't recommend this is weird.

 

[Sean K.]

When this thread was started, it wasn't clear that people used the conventional 6-ton jack stands on the frame rails in the rear with the jack stands placed in the abnormal parallel position (because they won't fit in the standard perpendicular position without risking damage to the fuel tank).

Also, it was clear that Toyota did NOT recommend any other location but the axle in their diagrams.

Subsequently, TheDurk showed that Toyota recommends just "the frame" when working on the rear suspension; however Toyota gives no guidance as to where on the frame.

At this point, I think we have a general consensus to use the axle for all but suspension work, and for suspension work, the frame rails work fine if you're comfortable putting the jack stands in the non-standard (parallel) configuration.

Whatever you say, bro. Put them wherever you want....provided it doesn't fall on you, who cares?

 

[csp]

I want the ten minutes back it took to gloss over this painful thread.....

 

[phattyduck]

I want the ten minutes back it took to gloss over this painful thread.....

Seriously.

If it takes you this much typing and thinking to get jack stands under a body-on-frame truck, how do you get any work done on a vehicle?

I actually haven't had a problem putting the rear of the vehicle on jack stands at the frame section in front of the driver's rear lower link mount in the normal orientation. Lift truck by diff, put jack stand in place, drop frame an inch or two...

It should be obvious that the diagrams in the owners manual are for OWNERS, not mechanics. Mechanics are expected to have some minimal amount of knowledge to work on vehicles, thus some of the short hand in the Factory Service Manual.

-Charlie

 

[foo]

For the front of the truck, I'll use the hydraulic jack on the ends of the transmission cross member to raise the vehicle and then rest the truck onto 6 ton jack stands on the frame, one side at a time.

To be clear, this is what all of us do, and, far more importantly, this is exactly what Toyota's diagrams show what to do, so, the front was never in contention.

For the rear, I get a hydraulic jack under the center of the differential and will choose one of two spots for the 6 ton jack stands. If I'm doing rear suspension work, I'll choose the same location on the frame that TheDurk uses along the side of the gas tank in front of the rear control arms on the driver side and directly opposite on the other side. If I'm not doing rear suspension work, I'll put jack stands on each end of the rear axle and rest the truck on the axle.

By now, we know where people put their jack stands:

1. Either they put them on the axle (which Toyota advocates)
2. Or they put them next to the gas tank (which Toyota deprecates)

However, nobody to date has shown a photo of the jack stands with the saddle in the crosswise position with the weight of the vehicle on the jack stands, where at least with my 6-ton jack stands, this setup clearly touches the fuel tank assembly, and that's before even lowering the car on the jack stands, which means damage is risked.

The question that remains unanswered is why Toyota deprecates the location that you and everyone else uses without thinking all that much about why Toyota specifically says NOT to use the location you use in their diagrams.

My guess is that Toyota engineers know what I intuitively experienced, which is that the common jack stands put in the conventional crosswise position risk puncturing the fuel tank when the car is lowered onto them. If the jack stands are put in the unconventional position, then a fall is perhaps more likely to occur.

Hence, Toyota can't recommend that position that you use.

You cannot go wrong by supporting the truck on the main structure of the frame. Why Toyota doesn't recommend this is weird.

It's obvious to me, at least intuitively, why Toyota "might" deprecate that position which is too close to the fuel tank for comfort, at least when using conventional 6-ton jack stands in the conventional "saddle" position.

The parallel (non saddle) position is the ONLY way that position would be usable, where I'm guessing Toyota realizes that's inherently less safe than the saddle position.

While I'm only guessing about Toyota's motives, it's clear that Toyota dose NOT recommend in their diagrams that spot which you (and everyone else) uses (which is why I didn't use it myself).

Whatever you say, bro. Put them wherever you want....provided it doesn't fall on you, who cares?

This is not helpful; in fact, your response simply wastes everyone's time.

That you don't have a clue about the answer to the question is obvious; but you don't have to tell the whole world that you have absolutely nothing to offer as to why Toyota deprecates this position because you telling us that you are clueless doesn't help anyone find the answer to the engineering question.

I want the ten minutes back it took to gloss over this painful thread.....

Likewise for you to waste everyone's time ignorantly admitting that you don't have any idea why Toyota made this decision isn't helpful. In fact, you're guilty of what you deprecate yourself.

Seriously.

If it takes you this much typing and thinking to get jack stands under a body-on-frame truck, how do you get any work done on a vehicle?

That condescending remark does not belong here as it adds no value to the discussion, and, it's completely wrong in the first place anyway.

It should have been clear to you that I had no problem whatsoever with using the jack stands. It also should have been clear to you that the question, which is an engineering question, arose only after looking closely at Toyota recommendations, which CLEARLY state not to use the point that you are stating you use.

I actually haven't had a problem putting the rear of the vehicle on jack stands at the frame section in front of the driver's rear lower link mount in the normal orientation.

Since you are the only one admitting to using the perpendicular saddle position for the jack stands, it will be interesting if the next time you snap a photo so we can see how close your saddle comes to puncturing the gas tank (or denting the shield).

Mine TOUCH the shield (and that's before lowering the vehicle onto the saddle); so that's most likely why Toyota clearly states NOT to use this location that you use.

It should be obvious that the diagrams in the owners manual are for OWNERS, not mechanics.

I was under the impression that the diagrams came from the FSM.
Did they not?

Mechanics are expected to have some minimal amount of knowledge to work on vehicles, thus some of the short hand in the Factory Service Manual.

Actually, I think you're completely wrong in that Toyota was very clear NOT to use the frame point that you use for the jack stands in what I believe is from the FSM.

However, what you probably meant to say is that mechanics have far more varieties of tools available to them, where a differently shaped head to their jack stands (or, more likely, a different type of lift) would easily support the frame without the danger of puncturing the fuel tank.

 

[Sean K.]

Brings a whole new meaning to potty trained at gunpoint.

 

[Sean K.]

This is not helpful; in fact, your response simply wastes everyone's time.

That you don't have a clue about the answer to the question is obvious; but you don't have to tell the whole world that you have absolutely nothing to offer as to why Toyota deprecates this position because you telling us that you are clueless doesn't help anyone find the answer to the engineering question.

Is it now considered clueless to just place them where they support the vehicle in a safe manner?

Hostile much?

Whatever. I see you've got sand in your panties.......go ahead and write your 50 page dissertation on how horrible Toyota is b/c they didn't tell you how to put jack stands under a 4Runner....

Maybe the problem isn't Toyota....maybe it's you.

 

[gamefreakgc]

My thought behind it was there's no brakes engaged when you lift the rear tires so, in theory, the vehicle could roll (even with blocks behind the tires). Putting the stands on the axle is more secure than on the frame or crossmember, that's where I put them every time unless I am working on the axle. Just more secure in case of a worse-case scenario.

 

[csp]

Likewise for you to waste everyone's time ignorantly admitting that you don't have any idea why Toyota made this decision isn't helpful. In fact, you're guilty of what you deprecate yourself.

Dude, you wasted more time by creating this thread than any of the rest of us with this meaningless inquisition. Let me make it clear for you. I could GAFF what Toyota says or doesn't say. I don't need a manual or an internet search to tell me where a safe place is to place a jackstand on ANY vehicle.

You're obviously the only one here who has sand in his vag about Toyota's reasoning. The rest of us use our brains and figure out how to make it work without consulting with Toyota.

SMH......:redbrick:

 

[gamefreakgc]

Dude, you wasted more time by creating this thread than any of the rest of us with this meaningless inquisition. Let me make it clear for you. I could GAFF what Toyota says or doesn't say. I don't need a manual or an internet search to tell me where a safe place is to place a jackstand on ANY vehicle.

You're obviously the only one here who has sand in his vag about Toyota's reasoning. The rest of us use our brains and figure out how to make it work without consulting with Toyota.

SMH......:redbrick:

Why get upset? If you have nothing to add to this then don't read it. The OP made it very clear that it was just a discussion anyway.

 

[csp]

Really gamefreak? I don't get upset over stuff I see on the internet, but which of all of us is chiding others for their contributions or lack of? It's silly that this thread exists and I'm certainly entitled to expressing my opinion of it, whether anyone else agrees with that or not. This is not foo's website and he doesn't get to make the rules about what can or can't be said. As long as we are following the rules of the website, it's all fair game.

You're wrong about the rolling thing, BTW. It's no more likely to roll with a jackstand under the frame than it is the axle housing. Not sure how you came up with that one...

 

[foo]

Brings a whole new meaning to potty trained at gunpoint.

Proving your infantile immaturity with your every post is not helpful in that it adds zero on-topic value to this thread, and, in fact, wastes everyone's time.

Is it now considered clueless to just place them where they support the vehicle in a safe manner?

Toyota clearly says in the FSM diagrams shown in the OP that the rear rail is not a safe position to place the jack stands.
I came to the same conclusion, intuitively, just looking at the geometry involved with the proximity to the fuel tank.

I am simply asking an adult question - and all I ask in return are adult responses that don't waste everyone's time.

Can you do that for us?

Hostile much?

Sean - look in the mirror.
I'm not the least hostile - however - I don't have time nor energy for your callow comments - and worse - you're just wasting everyone else's time by your naivete

It's fine that you don't know the answer to the question.
It's even fine that in your ignorant bliss, you never once considered why Toyota explicitly doesn't recommend the spot you've chosen to support your vehicle.

What's not fine are your puerile comments, to which I merely responded that they were not in the least helpful, and which waste everyone's time.

Whatever. I see you've got sand in your panties.......go ahead and write your 50 page dissertation on how horrible Toyota is b/c they didn't tell you how to put jack stands under a 4Runner....

Given your girlishly immature emotional response above, I see you completely misunderstood my response to you which clearly stated that your prior comments were unhelpful.

You can't even seem to understand the least amount of detail, since nobody here ever complained of what you just complained about with respect to complaints about Toyota. In fact, that you even consider such a preposterously childish emotion simply states how your mind works - but not that of anyone who is mature here.

Maybe the problem isn't Toyota....maybe it's you.

Maybe you should look in the mirror and just stop posting your unfledged unhelpful childish comments; they merely waste our time and add no value to the thread.

Dude, you wasted more time by creating this thread than any of the rest of us with this meaningless inquisition.

Your use of the word "dude" is a childishly condescending approach that I suspect you employ all the time when you are frustrated by facts, but your demeanor is completely out of place in an adult technical forum such as this one is.

Let me make it clear for you. I could GAFF what Toyota says or doesn't say.

You have already made everyone here completely aware of your blissful ignorance of why Toyota explicitly can't recommend using the frame near the fuel tank for common jack stands situated in the conventional crosswise configuration.

To repeat yourself is merely accentuating your ignorance - and - more importantly, assiduously repeating that you're completely uninformed is not helpful to further our combined tribal knowledge.

I don't need a manual or an internet search to tell me where a safe place is to place a jackstand on ANY vehicle.

That's fine.

Nobody here ever questioned your lack of knowledge.

But the fact that you constantly stress that you are ignorant in such engineering matters isn't helping us to further our knowledge.

You're obviously the only one here who has sand in his vag about Toyota's reasoning. The rest of us use our brains and figure out how to make it work without consulting with Toyota.

Oddly, you seem to take the simple question of why Toyota does not recommend the frame rail next to the fuel tank as a personal affront.

You were the one who made the unhelpful and wasteful comments, to which I merely pointed out that your comments were unhelpful.

Your ignorance is obvious but your repeated childish taunts simply describe how your thought process, not mine.

I am simply asking an engineering question of why Toyota clearly states not to use the frame rail as a jackstand mount point.

Why get upset? If you have nothing to add to this then don't read it. The OP made it very clear that it was just a discussion anyway.

Thank you for being mature in that this is simply a question, which has never been asked before on this forum (to my knowledge), of why Toyota clearly states in the FSM not to use the rear frame rail as a safety stand mount point.

Really gamefreak? I don't get upset over stuff I see on the internet, but which of all of us is chiding others for their contributions or lack of?

You have to understand that I'm familiar with such trolls.

These trolls not only deprecate the intent of the thread, but they do exactly what they deprecate, which is waste everyone's time. I am simply pointing that out to them.

You can't always stop these trolls from ruining a thread & wasting everyone's time.
But sometimes you can.

If it was a thread where I didn't care to come to a mature engineering conclusion, I would simply follow the age-old maxim to not feed the trolls. Normally they'll also drop you to their level, but I don't think that's possible here as they repeatedly state they are ignorant, so, all I need to do is call out the fact that they're wasting everyone's time in the hopes that they'll just go away.

It's silly that this thread exists and I'm certainly entitled to expressing my opinion of it, whether anyone else agrees with that or not.

I have stated the following, which is a mature thing to do:

1. I considered the rear frame mount point
2. I discarded that location because it's inherently dangerous (IMHO)
3. I researched all the threads on the topic of rear safety stand location
4. I would now use the axle for all but suspension work'

What I found in my research was that:

• Toyota CLEARLY does not recommend the rear frame rail next to the fuel tank
• Most people seem to have never considered the problem in any detail
• So all I'm doing is asking a simple question of WHY Toyota says not to use the rear frame rail.

All I am doing is asking a simple question, which could be answered with a Toyota TSB or training manual, or even a reference in the FSM that shows WHERE Toyota suggests the rear rail be supported with jack stands placed in the conventional position crosswise on the frame rail.

This is not foo's website and he doesn't get to make the rules about what can or can't be said. As long as we are following the rules of the website, it's all fair game.

Your constant sophomoric comments such as that patently ridiculous rant above merely reaffirm that your lack of maturity makes you utterly incapable of reasoning in an adult conversation. You just make this stuff up.

This thread is only asking for engineering details on Toyota's reasoning for clearly recommending people do NOT use the rear frame rails for jackstand locations.

Why that valid engineering question upsets you so much that you rant incessantly about the question being asked is a problem that you probably need professional help on.

You're wrong about the rolling thing, BTW. It's no more likely to roll with a jackstand under the frame than it is the axle housing. Not sure how you came up with that one...

After you having wasted everyone's time, I commend you on your first potentially mature contribution to the topic of this thread.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with "this rolling thing". I presume you are either talking about placing the jackstands in the conventional position under the rear LCA bushing bracket, or, perhaps you are discussing putting the jackstands in the unconventional (aka parallel) position under the rear frame (next to the fuel tank).

Which of those two configurations are you talking about in that last sentence of yours?

 

[Sean K.]

Proving your infantile immaturity with your every post is not helpful in that it adds zero on-topic value to this thread, and, in fact, wastes everyone's time.




Sean - look in the mirror.
I'm not the least hostile - however - I don't have time nor energy for your callow comments - and worse - you're just wasting everyone else's time by your naivete

It's fine that you don't know the answer to the question.
It's even fine that in your ignorant bliss, you never once considered why Toyota explicitly doesn't recommend the spot you've chosen to support your vehicle.

What's not fine are your puerile comments, to which I merely responded that they were not in the least helpful, and which waste everyone's time.


Given your girlishly immature emotional response above, I see you completely misunderstood my response to you which clearly stated that your prior comments were unhelpful.

You can't even seem to understand the least amount of detail, since nobody here ever complained of what you just complained about with respect to complaints about Toyota. In fact, that you even consider such a preposterously childish emotion simply states how your mind works - but not that of anyone who is mature here.

Maybe you should look in the mirror and just stop posting your unfledged unhelpful childish comments; they merely waste our time and add no value to the thread.

LOL.....the only one wasting time here is you. I've posted a handful of sentences to which you've responded volumes. Apparently, you've got that kind of time. Good for you!

You're the guy who needs to start threads to post how "smart" he thinks he is about remedial mechanic work....so have at it. Just don't be surprised when people call you on "wasting time" examining the minutia of something that is largely unimportant.


Have fun writing another book in response.....

 

[foo]

LOL.....the only one wasting time here is you. I've posted a handful of sentences to which you've responded volumes. Apparently, you've got that kind of time. Good for you!

Yet you continue to troll.
What does it take to make you just go away and stop wasting everyone's time?

You're the guy who needs to start threads to post how "smart" he thinks he is about remedial mechanic work....so have at it.

Now you finally and clearly state the root cause of your psychological problem that causes you to troll incessantly.

I'm ok with you being ignorant, and feeling inferior about it; but can't you just pollute another thread instead?

Please?

We're trying to get something answered here which is why Toyota clearly states in the FSM not to use the rear frame rails for supporting jack stands.

Just don't be surprised when people call you on "wasting time" examining the minutia of something that is largely unimportant.

My strategy is simple.

1. You have repeatedly proven that you are a troll who will troll no matter what.
2. I can't stop your trolling, and I ignore all your ignominious trolling in other threads.
3. I am merely calling you out for what you are in this thread.
4. In the hopes that you'll go away and pollute some other thread instead.

In fact, if you delete your posts, you will be ADDING VALUE to this thread!
(Think about the veracity of that statement, where I'll delete my responses in turn.)

Have fun writing another book in response.....

You constantly fail to grasp the simple detail that I am merely asking you to go away because you have proven by your incessant trolling that you have no academic value to add to this thread.

The hope is that trolls like you go away to pollute some other thread.

We're trying to answer an engineering question here, where we're all just guessing, since we have no reliable proof yet from the standpoint of Toyota engineers.

Given that Toyota clearly says in the FSM not to use the rear frame rail for jackstands, my take on the consensus is that "normal" jack stands (e.g., the 6-ton variety often used on the 4Runner) are too large when placed in the conventional crosswise configuration, such that a risk of puncturing the fuel tank is perhaps palpable. Likewise, placing the jackstands in the non-conventional (parallel) configuration risks the vehicle not being supported as well as it should be.

While nobody doubts that jackstands 'can' be placed under the rear frame rail, nobody yet has produced a picture showing a conventional placement with a measurement of how close the jackstand head comes to the fuel tank shield (where, when I eyeballed it, I surmised instantly that this was an unsafe configuration but I didn't risk lowering the vehicle onto the 6-ton jackstands to confirm that hypothesis).

1. What would be helpful to further our collective tribal knowledge is if the next time someone supports the rear of the 4Runner for suspension work with the crosswise configuration, that they show a photo with measurements of the distance between the jackstand head and the fuel tank shield when the vehicle is supported on those jack stands.
2. What else would be helpful is further technical information directly from Toyota as to explicitly why they state not to use the rear frame rail for jackstand placement.
3. Another helpful detail would be similar to the one TheDurk kindly showed, but which actually shows Toyota's recommended location for the rear frame rails.

 

[phattyduck]

Everyone posts these two pictures, which both say the same thing with respect to the placement of the rear safety stands:

So my only question here is WHY.

Why does Toyota specifically state NOT to use the frame for the rear safety stands?

Open your mind, and realize that you might be going well down the wrong path on this.

The acceptable/suggested jacking/jackstand point has NOTHING to do with the gas tank location.

You can put a safety stand any location where you are also allowed to lift the vehicle, assuming it is a location that will fit the jack stand well.

The suggested jack stand locations in the FSM and owners manual are the best locations for safety. Closest to the corners of the vehicle, and in the rear, a location that 'holds' the jack stand on the curve of the axle housing.

If you need to do work on the rear suspension (for example), you go to the next best location, which is the rear frame rail, just in front of the lower link mount. This is the location specifically called out for lifting using a swing-arm type lift, so will also work for supporting the vehicle.

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. No deep seated engineering reason. Just the easiest safe spot to put the jack stands (axle). When conditions dictate, you do something else (frame).

-Charlie

 

[theesotericone]

Oh man. I put them on the frame rails when I did my lift. I didn't puncture the gas tank, the vehicle didn't move and I'm still alive. But it was a funny thread.

 

[foo]

Open your mind, and realize that you might be going well down the wrong path on this.

I appreciate your advice, where I state the record will show my mind is wide open, as all my threads show.

If my mind wasn't wide open, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

I never said that I was unaware that people use the frame rail all the time for their jack stands; I am only asking why Toyota clearly says not to do that.

Had I lacked attention to detail, I wouldn't have innately intuited exactly what Toyota explicitly says in the FSM, which is that the rear frame rail is a plausibly dangerous place to put my conventional 6-ton jack stands when sited in the conventional crosswise position.

While I intuited instantly that the rear frame rail was a palpably unsafe place to put my 6-ton jack stands, I can change my mind in a heartbeat, simply because I am beholden to the technical truth, if someone can prove, with references, otherwise.

Now, I'm not saying that everyone hasn't used that spot for decades, as I researched this question before I asked it, where I was appalled that everyone seems to innocuously ignore Toyota directives in the FSM.

But the directives are clearly there, which state to NOT use that location for jack stands.
All I'm asking is WHY Toyota says that.

Reliable, reasonable, referenced fact is all I care to see in this thread.

We already have reams of guesswork, but not a single person other than TheDurk has supplied any references that show Toyota recommending any specific spot on "the frame" for placing jack stands (where, in fact, the original references are to the contrary).

And nobody has supplied a photo with measurements.
Yet, I'm sure hordes of the uninitiated will say they do it all the time, so "what's the big deal?"

That's a fine sentiment; but those people should refrain from posting to this thread because they can't add any value to answer the question.

Without facts, we're all just blindly guessing as to why Toyota says not to use the rear frame rail for conventional jack stand placement.

The acceptable/suggested jacking/jackstand point has NOTHING to do with the gas tank location. You can put a safety stand any location where you are also allowed to lift the vehicle, assuming it is a location that will fit the jack stand well.

I hope you realize the sophistry of that statement, right?
It's internally inconsistent (i.e., note what I've italicized and underlined above).

You can (seemingly) prove anything you want with that approach.

My 6-ton jack stands clearly risk puncturing the fuel tank of the 4Runner I was working on (or at the very least, denting the shield) when the jack stands are placed in the conventional position and when vehicle is lowered upon them.

Looking it up afterward, I found that Toyota's directives agreed with my intuition.

Therefore, I'm not going to risk that tenable damage without asking the simple question that I asked in this thread, which, I believe, the answer to will help everyone who needs to support their 4Runner for rear suspension work in the future.

The suggested jack stand locations in the FSM and owners manual are the best locations for safety. Closest to the corners of the vehicle, and in the rear, a location that 'holds' the jack stand on the curve of the axle housing.

Let's reaffirm that nobody is questioning the location of jack stands in the front.
And, nobody is questioning the location of the jack stands on the axle housing.
And nobody questions the fact that people use (what Toyota clearly states is) the wrong location all the time.

This question always was, and still is, about the engineering rationale why Toyota explicitly says not to use the rear frame as a location for jack stands in the rear.

If you need to do work on the rear suspension (for example), you go to the next best location, which is the rear frame rail, just in front of the lower link mount. This is the location specifically called out for lifting using a swing-arm type lift, so will also work for supporting the vehicle.

While I completely understand that most people use whatever they can get away with sometimes (e.g., I think TheDurk used an upended log to partially support the vehicle), this question was always about why Toyota says the opposite of what you just said.

To clarify, I don't think I'm misreading the FSM diagrams where Toyota says NOT to use the point that you just said to use for jackstands.

Toyota clearly differentiates jackstands from swing-arm lift support in those diagrams.

Given that you equate the two, may I inquire if you're interpreting the only known documentation differently than I am?

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. No deep seated engineering reason. Just the easiest safe spot to put the jack stands (axle). When conditions dictate, you do something else (frame).

I understand that you assume otherwise, but I think Toyota has very good reasons for explicitly and clearly stating NOT to use the rear frame rail for jackstand placement.

I also think that I know what those reasons are (as stated many times above); but I'm willing to read details from Toyota which prove the hypothesis.

That reliable proof could (and probably should) come in three forms:

1. A statement by Toyota why they explicitly say NOT to use the rear frame rail
2. A diagram by Toyota showing WHAT location to use for rear suspension work
3. A photo with measured dimenstions taken by the next person who does rear suspension work using conventional jack stands in the conventional orientation

 

[gamefreakgc]

Really gamefreak? I don't get upset over stuff I see on the internet, but which of all of us is chiding others for their contributions or lack of? It's silly that this thread exists and I'm certainly entitled to expressing my opinion of it, whether anyone else agrees with that or not. This is not foo's website and he doesn't get to make the rules about what can or can't be said. As long as we are following the rules of the website, it's all fair game.

You're wrong about the rolling thing, BTW. It's no more likely to roll with a jackstand under the frame than it is the axle housing. Not sure how you came up with that one...

No, he doesn't, but if you don't like what is being said then you don't need to make derogatory comments. I at least made a positive contribution to the thread.

 

[foo]

Oh man. I put them on the frame rails when I did my lift. I didn't puncture the gas tank, the vehicle didn't move and I'm still alive. But it was a funny thread.

Maybe I'm becoming jaded by all the unhelpful and patently obvious comments, but, I must respond to your "death" diatribe above.

Nobody said you'd die.
That's you just making stuff up and needlessly embellishing the danger.

You just innocuously blew a simple question out to the extreme, even something as patently simple as asking WHY Toyota explicitly says not to do what you do all the time.

If you can't supply a photo with measurements, your comment is extremely unhelpful because everyone already KNOWS what you (and everyone else does).

It's obvious what you do.

It says so in the original post, for heaven's sake.

This thread isn't about what you get away with.

It's about why Toyota explicitly says NOT to do what you do all the time.

What we need is academic rigor here.

1. A description by Toyota why they say not to do what you do
2. A diagram by Toyota showing where to place rear jack stands on the frame
3. A photo with measurements to the fuel tank showing a conventional jack stand in the conventional position