Why the love for a manual trans for offroad?

[ShooterMcGavin]

This may be a nooB question, and maybe obvious, but I have lots to learn

My background has always been in cars so help me understand the offroad game better. I own 3 cars and they are all manual transmission. Clearly, I love selecting my own ratios and I know why I want a manual; the performance, fuel efficiency, simplicity, control, and consistency. On the road, I want a manual, whether it is a car or a truck. However, help me with some questions about the use of a manual transmission focused for offroad use...

(1) Having a fixed link between the engine and wheels is an obvious advantage when the vehicle is moving. No questions there. (Remember, I am a noobie...) As I see it, a lot of the challenge with offroad driving is avoiding tire slip while getting the vehicle moving and maintaining traction while crossing/navigating barriers and obstacles. Is that correct?

(2) Besides the clear advantage of a manual while a vehicle is moving, what are the advantages of a manual transmission in offroad use? Is the fear of premature clutch wear a serious concern?

(3) I have read that there are some different techniques to using a manual transmission offroad. Generally speaking, what are these techniques? If it's easier, can anyone point me to some resources or articles?

Thanks all.

 

[Coastal616]

They each have their advantages.

Manual transmissions are typically more reliable and longer lasting with fewer moving parts, they are great for going down steep hills where you can pick a gear and it stays there. Auto's like to freewheel going downhill giving you very little compression braking, which means you are riding the brakes the whole way down to maintain a slow speed.

Autos are nice in stop/start situations where you are faced uphill and maybe stuck, and it will suck if you stall when you make the speedy transition from brake pedal to gas pedal. With the auto you can two foot it and start giving it gas while holding the brake pedal down.

Lots of personal preference really. I have an auto, but would love to go back to a manual in my 4runner.

 

[mrtucker80]

I am going to say alot has to do with your first observation. Most Automatics don't lock up in first or second and the last thing you want while you are on a crazy ascent or decent is to get some slippage in the drive-line. It also has alot to do with final drive ratio. With a manual you generally will get a much lower first gear and the options for gearing down even further are generally greater.

My 80 has a slush-box in it and I actually enjoy driving it on the trail, but my trans holds 1st like a champ and manual shifts well.

In the end it really has to do with what kind of driving you will be doing, and in the end it all comes down to control. Manual = greater control over the rig.

 

[TheDurk]

They each have their advantages.

Manual transmissions are typically more reliable and longer lasting with fewer moving parts, they are great for going down steep hills where you can pick a gear and it stays there. Auto's like to freewheel going downhill giving you very little compression braking, which means you are riding the brakes the whole way down to maintain a slow speed.

Autos are nice in stop/start situations where you are faced uphill and maybe stuck, and it will suck if you stall when you make the speedy transition from brake pedal to gas pedal. With the auto you can two foot it and start giving it gas while holding the brake pedal down.

Lots of personal preference really. I have an auto, but would love to go back to a manual in my 4runner.

It should be noted the 5-speed 4Runner is superior to the auto in this situation if you do stall out. The slushbox must be started in Park or Neutral and then shifted to Drive. With the Clutch Start defeat button, you can start your vehicle in First 4L (or Reverse!!) with the clutch in and your wheels are turning as soon as the starter engages. There is no hill too steep for you to be unable to do this in first and low-range. If I am on the edge of the abyss, I want my 5-speed.

 

[hrt4me]

good info, these are all reasons I love my 1996 5-speed manual V6 with 4WD and factory e-locker

 

[TheArkMaster]

When in doubt, Just put in a hand throttle on the manual

 

[toykidd]

Im going to swing the opposite way on this one as say that i prefer a auto for my driving style and the type of wheeling that i do. There are 2 main reasons that i say this. 1) the ability to 2 foot. This puts a load on your drivetrain to keep from breaking parts and also when descending a very steep obstacle if you load the drive train and you feel your back end getting light you can just let your foot off the brake and it will bring the back end down. 2) the ability to traverse an obstacle at a much smoother and slower rate of speed. this can be done to a manual with twin cases. For mostly on road driving i would love a manual! but for what my truck is built for i love my auto.

 

[snivilous]

I am not an "automatic fanboy" or anything, if one is better than the other, cool and whatever. Everything I've heard when talking to other people is that it's just preference. However on some notes:

Auto's like to freewheel going downhill giving you very little compression braking, which means you are riding the brakes the whole way down to maintain a slow speed.

Most Automatics don't lock up in first or second and the last thing you want while you are on a crazy ascent or decent is to get some slippage in the drive-line.

I don't get why people always say this as it is false, you can downshift an automatic and create a "shift ceiling" to limit the highest gear it will go into SPECIFICALLY for going down hills. Granted, as [MENTION=91276]mrtucker80[/MENTION] said the gearing is lower for manuals which would help, but regardless you can still downshift.

It should be noted the 5-speed 4Runner is superior to the auto in this situation if you do stall out. The slushbox must be started in Park or Neutral and then shifted to Drive. With the Clutch Start defeat button, you can start your vehicle in First 4L (or Reverse!!) with the clutch in and your wheels are turning as soon as the starter engages. There is no hill too steep for you to be unable to do this in first and low-range. If I am on the edge of the abyss, I want my 5-speed.

Not quite sure what you're saying here. What is the big deal if you have to start the vehicle in park/neutral (assuming you stall out the automatic which is less likely than a manual I would think), it's not like you're going to go anywhere while you shift into drive if your foot is on the brake, and then you just two foot it so you don't slip at all and instantly transfer power as you release the brake.

Not trying to start a fight with anyone, just want to be informed and I don't think those posts are entirely correct...

 

[Singtoe]

It should be noted the 5-speed 4Runner is superior to the auto in this situation if you do stall out. The slushbox must be started in Park or Neutral and then shifted to Drive. With the Clutch Start defeat button, you can start your vehicle in First 4L (or Reverse!!) with the clutch in and your wheels are turning as soon as the starter engages. There is no hill too steep for you to be unable to do this in first and low-range. If I am on the edge of the abyss, I want my 5-speed.

It should also be noted that an Auto won't stall out (if it is in good running condition).

5 Speed can stall out by poor clutch throttle operation.

The only benefit, in my opinion that manuals have is they give under-powered engines the extra nod to go and that they are cheaper to build.



I love my auto. I had manual trucks and cars before, but for the mundane practice of day to day driving, shifting gears suck. When buying my runner, I didn't even look at the ones with a 5 speeds.

 

[Kanger328]

All make valid points. I just think auto is so much more comfortable off road.....

 

[jasonoflivingston]

For the record, I drive an auto and prefer it for off-roading. That being said, though, when your torque converter unlocks for extended periods of time, it can get toasty very quickly. If you aren't paying attention, this can get you into trouble.

 

[arctic4runner]

I really, really HATE automatics. Ugh i dont like the sound of it. No offence but everytime I drive auto I cant control the engine rpm, fuk that. With manual transmission I can stay at 2.5k rpm the whole time or 3k rpm at every gear where auto cant. Shifting gears are so fun, 11+ years and counting.

Im known as an auto hater.

 

[white_n_slow]

For offroad use, I think it's 100% a matter of personal preference. Each has it's benefits and it's drawbacks.

I grew up on manuals and I have never owned an automatic 4x4. The manual can be a handful in tricky terrain where the truck wants to roll back and you want to crawl. I use all three pedals at once on a regular basis, and that takes a lot of concentration. Also, with all the experience I have under my belt, I still stall the truck more than I care to admit.

The upside is that I have 100% control of what the truck is doing. I have also never seen an automatic (without dual cases or aftermarket low range) compression brake like a manual... even if you do put the shifter in 1st. I hardly ever use the brakes on a descent--don't need to. Engine braking is a lot safer and more controlled than using the brakes, IMO.

As long as you have gearing appropriate to tire size, clutch wear is a non-issue to me. My FJ60 went over 200k on the factory clutch and it was used primarily off-road (by me anyway). This is of course assuming you practice a little bit of mechanical empathy.

 

[TOY2G]

I was going to leave this one alone, mostly because of all the years i have been wheeling i have watched people have this fight 1000 Xs.

But I am a convert. I spent my first 10 years wheeling in a manual and i swore by it. First it was an 88 truck then a 2000 Tacoma. I even went so far as to say I would never use an Auto.

Now When I say wheeling, let me be clear... I am talking atlas transfer case, Dana 60s, F&R Lockers, Hydraulic Steering, and 38" + tires. We have wheeled every hot Spot from Browns Camp Oregon to Hot Springs AR.

NOW... I have Autos in all 6 of our vehicles and I kick myself for not making the switch sooner.

Yea, my manual has clutch cancel....BUT the down side to that is, you have to start in motion, and when you have a sidewall barley clinging on to the waterfall at old Katempsi, the last thing you want is to lurch forward. As far as down hill control goes, you can shift you Auto into low (wont be quite as low as a manual, but it works). You cannot miss a gear in a Auto like in a manual.

What about the manuals being more reliable....? I still think this part is true, and cheaper to fix...HOWEVER.. my FJ80 has 318k on it when I sold it to Outrider Offroad and it has been wheeled hard (still is) and the factory tyranny is still going strong.

So to answer the OP Question...
If you take personal preference out of the mix.
Manuals are typically more robust and have lower gearing....
Autos are simpler to use in many cases (especially A novice driver)...
Manuals can be much harder to control on ascents (without years of experience)
Autos Do not have the gearing as low as a manual for descents....


I do not wish to fight with anyone about this, i know it is a fighting topic...I have been on both sides and I know very well that manual owners wear it as a badge of pride because it does take more skill...But at the end of the day its not about showing who has the bigger set of testicular endowment, it about what works best and safest for a driver in THEIR skill level.

 

[Kraze]

It really depends on the type of off-roading if you ask me.

For fire roads and just mobbing around in the desert, give me a manual. Nothing like locking the rear diff, putting it in 2wd low and sliding around corners at will.

Once you start wheeling on the rocks though, things change. Unless you're a god at manual transmissions, it's easier and safer in an automatic, and this is coming from someone with a manual. Granted, once you start getting into things like dual cases and crazy low gearing, it doesn't matter as much. But there's definitely been times where I've wished I was in an automatic instead of a manual, especially on those real tight trails with tons of boulders that you have to crawl over and stop and make line corrections all the time. It's just not easy in a manual.

I will say though, it's a great feeling at the end of the day to know that you made it though everything with a manual. It makes things challenging, and that can be fun.

 

[02SE]

I've owned several 4wd vehicles, only one of which was an auto, a '95 FZJ80. All of the different trails I've been on over the years, I've never wished I had an automatic. That one automatic 4wd I did have, I wished was a manual.

Off-road I prefer the precise control of the manual. I don't worry about if I'm overheating the transmission, which is easy to do with an auto.

No pink milkshake to worry about, better fuel economy at least between 3rd gen 4Runners that are otherwise identical, (comparing mine and my Sister's) and simply more fun to drive. I still have my old '97, because the newer 4Runners that are auto only just are not as much fun to drive, IMO.

I realize that for most people, a vehicle is just transportation to get from point A to B. They aren't enthusiasts, and shifting would be difficult between eating, texting, shaving, applying make-up, reading a book, and the numerous other ridiculous things I've seen people do, instead of paying attention to their driving.

Driving a manual trans. competently takes more skill. Based on the disappearing manual transmission, it seems that most of society isn't interested in learning that skill.

 

[rideexileex]

I will say that for base configuration vehicles/4runners and the aspect of "crawling", the auto is superior for the simple fact that the driver is able to two foot and begin movement without slip.

I think the manual can compete if a crawlbox is added, but the lurch of the standard manuals, or even slight roll back/forward/whatever on slopes, gives the extra safety margin / control benefit to the auto transmission.

 

[02SE]

I think the manual can compete if a crawlbox is added, but the lurch of the standard manuals, or even slight roll back/forward/whatever on slopes, gives the extra safety margin / control benefit to the auto transmission.

If the driver is lurching, rolling back, etc. that goes back to driving a manual transmission competently.

None of those concerns are a problem, if the driver knows how to drive a manual transmission.

Most people don't want to be bothered to learn those driving skills. That's why there are fewer manual transmission equipped new vehicles available every year.

 

[Kraze]

If the driver is lurching, rolling back, etc. that goes back to driving a manual transmission competently.

None of those concerns are a problem, if the driver knows how to drive a manual transmission.

Most people don't want to be bothered to learn those driving skills. That's why there are fewer manual transmission equipped new vehicles available every year.

I have a couple questions for you. Would you agree that being competent at a manual on the road is different than being competent at a manual on steep, rocky terrain?

How long do you think it took you to become what you consider competent at driving manuals in any terrain?

And do you ever feel that there are places you can go in your vehicle with a manual that you simply would not be able to make it if you had an automatic?

I've been driving manuals since I first learned how to drive, and I'd say I'm more than competent on the street. But once you get to steep terrain and big rocks, the skill set is very different. I'll be the first to admit that I'm still not good at it, and that I would be a far more capable driver, for the places I wheel, if I was in an automatic.

I still wouldn't trade my manual for an auto though, so I guess that says something. And I definitely agree with your last statement.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

I like an auto because it's less to think about when in sticky situations. I'm afraid I'd tend to slip the clutch and burn it up. Also, with a manual you choose your gear and you're stuck with it. Years ago I had a Ford Ranger 4X4 with a manual. I started down a muddy road and it was thick, sticky, and the truck was loosing momentum (one of those sticky situations). I was winding out in 1st trying to keep moving and knew I should be in 2nd (like 5000 RPMs or something crazy) but I knew if I tried to shift I'd lose momentum and be stuck. It was about 1/4 mile to dry ground and I was sweating by the time I got there. Another time I did try to shift and sure enough, sunk to the axles (had to get a farmer to pull me out with a tractor).