Why used SUV values are strong in spite of near $4 gas...

[hrothgar02]

I usually don't read NYT's for their automotive insights but this article was fairly interesting. It gives you a good explaination of why used SUV prices are currently strong in spite of near $4 gas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/business/used-full-size-suvs-are-making-a-comeback.html?hpw

 

[limamike]

Good read. Thanks.

 

[BensonTT]

Cliff notes?

 

[36bound]

In my neck of the woods, it's remarkable what a 3-4 year old Jeep Wrangler commands on the pre-owned market. Shocking, actually. And my Jeep wouldn't give me 20 mpg if I was rolling down a mountain in neutral.

 

[phillyd2]

Cliff notes?

People buy trucks because people like trucks.

 

[Antman]

Cliff notes?

You are a better man than me philly-

I say if you are seriously that lazy to not click on the link and read that little article you got some serious issues there misterrrr:sleepy:

 

[GrantK]

The only thing surprising is that it wasn't a $500M government funded study.

 

[36bound]

People buy trucks because people like trucks.

The man makes a strong point.:iagree:

 

[BensonTT]

LoL... Sorry the font on my iphone was too small that's why I didn't want to read it..

 

[Antman]

LoL... Sorry the font on my iphone was too small that's why I didn't want to read it..

You are forgiven, but only because I like your avatar so much...

 

[Maritimer]

Plus an old 4Runner is better built than a good deal of crappy new compacts and sedans. I'd stay away from those old NA SUVs, though. I've driven a new Cruze, Focus, Impala, and a Jetta, and they all sucked.

 

[jspagna1]

^^^^ +1 Agreed!

 

[TOPDECK]

I think there are a few factors here:

1: On some level people realize the scam of new "eco-friendly" vehicles. They are more expensive than just a regular car, and even with high gas prices, it will take (in most cases) the whole time you have the car to just break even. Plus who knows what the longevity of parts will be and how much it will cost to repair in the future.

2: People still want / have to go places with their family. They need to bring stuff back from home depot. They need a vehicle that works in the real world, and the current offerings do not offer that. The overlapping part of the venn-diagram is a complete joke. A Hybrid Chevy Tahoe? Over $13k more before options for only 23 MPG HWY? Like I said, it's a joke.

3: On some level the educated consumer realizes that today's electric hybrid, and electric car technologies are not the answer and probably won't be around for a long time. Electric cars are the worst in this category. The range is not good and over estimated, there are not a lot of places to fill up the battery, charges take too long, and they are very expensive to repair with an average battery lifespan of only 7 years. Considering the small amount of miles they are able to cover, it is like an engine wearing out in 50k miles or less instead of 200k+. We won't even get started about where the electricity comes from...

4: You never get away from oil. The whole car is made out of plastic, which is oil. The tires are made of oil and everything else. Oh and silica...for the little solar panel on top. That does what? Makes it so you can sit in your car with the AC on and the engine off? Who sits in their car for extended periods of time with the engine off and the AC on? Stalkers? Child molesters fishing for 5th graders outside the playground? A worthless "feature" if you ask me. How about the LiPo batteries in electric cars? You think making one of those is the most environmentally safe thing in the world? How about what happens to the old batteries? Where are those going to go, and what will they do to the environment? I would rather have an old '79 pick up rotting away in my back yard then a Nissan Leaf, I will tell you that much.

How about all the copper wiring in the motor and the rest of the car. Copper comes from somewhere...copper mines. And that ore is broken down in refineries which I am sure are all super b itchen for the environment. And it is all carried from one place to another by vehicles that run on...you guessed it...petrol and diesel. And think of all the workers in those factories driving to work every day to make your car, using petrol. It goes on and on and on.

5: People, and especially Americans, love their cars. They look at their car an as extension of themselves. It represents them to the world as they drive around. Owning and driving a Prius is more of a statement, in my opinion, than it is a practicality or a good deed for the environment. That is why celebrities drive them around Hollywood and Malibu. It says "Yeah, I'm rich but I am still down to Earth and I am eco-conscious." But, they still fly in private planes and own Range Rovers and all that stuff. They have the Prius as an accessory like a Livestrong bracelet. It is there for you to see, not them. Point: current eco-friendly cars are not cool. They all try to look futuristic, but they end up looking like a running shoe. People like cool cars and will pay for them...if they are cool. If I was that kid in the article, you bet I would want a Jeep Wrangler instead of a Chevy Volt or a Prius. Who cares about the gas mileage, a teenage boy has "other" things to worry about. And those things are not going to come easy in a Prius.

Until a car company comes out with a Hydrogen Cell (or better technology) car that looks, acts, and feels like a real car, can do all the same tasks as a gasoline car or suv, and costs the same...I will be running on petrol.


And so will the rest of the world.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Maybe the green europeans would trade us their cool diesels for our electrics

 

[KidVermicious]

I think there are a few factors here:

1: On some level people realize the scam of new "eco-friendly" vehicles. They are more expensive than just a regular car, and even with high gas prices, it will take (in most cases) the whole time you have the car to even break even. Plus who knows what the longevity of parts will be and how much it will cost to repair in the future.

2: People still want / have to go places with their family. They need to bring stuff back from home depot. They need a vehicle that works in the real world, and the current offerings do not offer that. The overlapping part of the venn-diagram is a complete joke. A Hybrid Chevy Tahoe? For 13k more before options for only 23 MPG HWY? Like I said, it's a joke.

3: On some level the educated consumer realizes that today's electric hybrid, and electric car technology are not the answer and probably won't be around for a long time. Electric cars are the worst in this category. The range is not good, and over estimated, there are not a lot of places to fill up the battery, charges take too long, and they are very expensive to repair with an average battery lifespan of only 7 years. Considering the small amount of miles they are able to cover, it is like an engine wearing out in 50k miles or less instead of 200k+. We won't even get started about where the electricity comes from...

4: You never get away from oil. The whole car is made out of plastic, which is oil. The tires are made of oil and everything else. Oh and silica...for the little solar panel on top. That does what? Makes it so you can sit in your car with the AC on and the engine off? Who sits in their car for extended periods of time with the engine off and the AC on? Stalkers? Child molesters fishing for 5th graders outside the playground? A worthless "feature" if you ask me.

5: People, and especially Americans, love their cars. They look at their car an extension of themselves. It represents them to the world as they drive around. Owning and driving a Prius is more of a statement, in my opinion, than it is a practicality or a good deed for the environment. That is why celebrities drive them around Hollywood and Malibu. It says "Yeah, I'm rich but I am still down to Earth and I am eco-conscious. But, they still fly in private planes and own Range Rovers and all that stuff. They have the Prius as an accessory like a Livestrong bracelet. It is there for you to see, not them. Point: current eco-friendly cars are not cool. They all try to look futuristic, but they end up looking like a running shoe.

Until a car company comes out with a Hydrogen Cell (or better technology) car that looks, acts, and feels like a real car, can do all the same tasks as a gasoline car or suv, and costs the same...I will be running on petrol.


And so will the rest of the world.

All good points, but I think it needs to be recognized that changing our "car-centric" culture is also an option. It may sound odd coming from a truck guy, but I'm working hard to drive less and bicycle/bus/train more. I've found that there's almost nothing I need my truck for but hauling heavy loads, towing, and taking trips. My 15 mile commute, my shopping, my errands, all can be done on my bike or via mass transit.

That's not possible for everybody, of course. But I think it does everybody good to examine their transportation choices and see what fat can be trimmed.

 

[TOPDECK]

All good points, but I think it needs to be recognized that changing our "car-centric" culture is also an option. It may sound odd coming from a truck guy, but I'm working hard to drive less and bicycle/bus/train more. I've found that there's almost nothing I need my truck for but hauling heavy loads, towing, and taking trips. My 15 mile commute, my shopping, my errands, all can be done on my bike or via mass transit.

That's not possible for everybody, of course. But I think it does everybody good to examine their transportation choices and see what fat can be trimmed.

I agree, and know a lot of people that bike to work. I think that it is a much harder problem here in the USA because we are so spread out. The car has made it possible for people not to live where they work, and commutes have grown larger and larger especially after the housing boom in the early 2000's. People that did live closer to work in more densely populated areas were able to get out of the city. It might be hard to get those people back.

The switch from a car-centric populous to an eco-centric one will be a hard row to hoe. Mostly because humans like instant gratification and the behaviors that give them that become hard wired into our brains. Driving around in a cool car gives one instant gratification. The unconscious thought is that it is making you better than you would be without it. It is for you. Right now.

The other side of the coin, that is, driving a car for the environmental responsibility is an abstraction for most people; a huge one. It begs the question, what is this doing for me? Right now. How is this making me more attractive to others? I think it is a hard one to wrap one's mind around.

There is no direct, in your face, cause and effect. It is not like when one drives a Nissan Leaf around, flowers bloom out of the ground and the grass becomes more green with every mile. You don't see the effect.

One must have faith that what they are doing is working. And, that is a hard thing to win and keep.

 

[whodat]

Topdeck, I enjoy reading your posts.:hatsoff: sorry, off topic.

 

[Quentin]

As of July I'll have a 4Runner, a MINI, and a Prius. We have a baby on the way, our first, so we have to buy something because the MINI will not fit a rear facing infant seat. To me, it was simple to choose the Prius v (station wagon). It has nearly as much space as my 4Runner while getting 2x as far on a gallon of gas. It will fit my bikes really well. The most fascinating part about the Prius is the drivetrain, though. Here is the "transmission" of a Prius.

It has a planetary gearset with electric motors on each side. Normally, you have clutchpacks that hold different parts of the planetary gear stationary relative to the case or a carrier, etc. The Prius just changes the speed of the one motor to vary the gear ratio. It is brilliant! You know the starter and the alternator that a normal car has? Those motors in the Prius torque split device make those unnecessary. Instead of lightly pressing the brakes, you just take voltage off the motor and let the wheels turn the motor. This "engine braking" actually generates electricity. For reverse, you just rotate one of the motors (forget which one) the opposite direction!

I'm an engineer for a plant that builds automatic transmissions. I know them inside out. The Hybrid Synergy Drive is damn clever in comparison. After tearing a Toyota HSD transmission apart, I was simply stunned at how few parts it required and how damn clever it was. Despite being a slow, nerdy car, I'm very fascinated with the Prius. It is so simple but so effective.*

For reference, here is what a 4Runner 5AT looks like.

Pretty complex, eh? That said, part of the reason I love the 4Runner is because it is the complete opposite side of the coin. It is very traditional but still very effective at a given job. Owning and loving my BoF SUV doesn't mean that I have to shun a Prius.

*Beware, not all hybrids are created equal. Most "mild" hybrids add a big motor in place of the starter motor and still have the complexity of a normal automatic transmission.