Will lighter rims & MPG?

[jjdbike]

Hey folks,
After 2 1/2 / 2” lift on 2011 SR5, the inevidable happened. Now my wheels & tires look too small.:frusty::rockon:
So upsizeing from 265/70/17 to 275/70/17. The lift on it’s own didn’t hurt my MPG which is currently about 14 on average according to the dash display. The current tires have a pretty beefy aggresive tread (they look like mud tires). Way more aggressive than what I want because I do a lot of driving in soft sand, which is why I’d like a larger tire (for a wider foot-print when aired-down.
I know going w/ larger tires will hurt my Milage. It looks like aftermarket custom rims not only look better and are a tad wider (i.e. 7.5 or 8, vs OEM 7 on the SR5), but are signifcantly lighter. Will the lighter rims help out w/ MPG at all?
Thanks!
JD

 

[invisible4Runner]

In theory yes - less unsprung weight takes less power to turn than more weight.

But that is easily negated by tread pattern and wheel size. Those produce rolling resistance, which will have far more impact than rim weight.

 

[borfoo3]

Hey folks,
After 2 1/2 / 2” lift on 2011 SR5, the inevidable happened. Now my wheels & tires look too small.:frusty::rockon:
So upsizeing from 265/70/17 to 275/70/17. The lift on it’s own didn’t hurt my MPG which is currently about 14 on average according to the dash display. The current tires have a pretty beefy aggresive tread (they look like mud tires). Way more aggressive than what I want because I do a lot of driving in soft sand, which is why I’d like a larger tire (for a wider foot-print when aired-down.
I know going w/ larger tires will hurt my Milage. It looks like aftermarket custom rims not only look better and are a tad wider (i.e. 7.5 or 8, vs OEM 7 on the SR5), but are signifcantly lighter. Will the lighter rims help out w/ MPG at all?
Thanks!
JD

Tried to buy into that thought myself.. quick math showed you'd basically lose whater few lbs you shave from each rim towards the larger and heavier tire carcass rolling with you.

You just WANT the bigger tire. Go buy it for that.

 

[vjack]

The reason saving weight on the wheels helps more than saving weight in the rest of the vehicle is that when you accelerate most of the car is gaining linear motion but the wheels need to gain linear motion and rotational motion. Thus 1 lbs on the wheel takes more energy than 1 lbs on the vehicle.

There are various rules of thumb for comparing them, I have heard that weight on the wheels is 2-4x as significant as weight on the vehicle, but I do not know how accurate that is or whether it varies based on exact wheel geometry, terrain, driving speed, etc.

But let's run with the 4x number for now: if your 3rd-party wheels are 10lbs lighter each, that is roughly comparable to dropping 160 lbs of weight in the truck. I doubt that much weight has a meaningful impact on MPG. (I'm assuming that the bigger tires are already a given... obviously if you go from stock tires to bigger ones you will probably add back all that weight saved by the 3rd party rims and then some.)

 

[jjdbike]

So what you seem to be saying is this is a weak and thinley veiled attempt at justifying continuing to spend more than I should on improving the looks and performance of a vehicle that was just fine as is (or was):hiding:
Yes I know....
I suppose what I’m trying to figure out is, since I’m spending roughly $1150 getting new tires installed already, should I just go ahead and spend another $600 for lighter, wider & better looking rims?
I don’t know if going from 265’s to 275’s will add back the 40lbs lost due to lighter rims, but it will still be 40 less lbs of rotating weight over the oem rims either way, right? Plus going w/ a less toothy tread (as I said my current tires are pretty aggressive offroad/mud tires) to more of a highway & sand freindly AT tire will be less rolling resistance right?
That’s how I see it. Is this faulty reasoning?
JD

 

[KidVermicious]

They're telling you that if you're going to play dress-up with your truck, just do it, but don't pretend that you're going to get enough improvement in MPG to justify the extra money you're going to spend.

 

[The Waco Kid]

In a nutshell, yes. It's a lost cause. The years it would take to recoup any cost associated with purchasing newer/lighter rims wouldn't be worth it. Especially if you're going up in size/weight on the tire.

 

[flyrv9]

I suggest you read 1Engineer's tire fitment guide before proceeding further. That will eliminate any rubbing issues you might encounter with bigger - wider tires and rims. Just a thought.

 

[1engineer]

So what you seem to be saying is this is a weak and thinley veiled attempt at justifying continuing to spend more than I should on improving the looks and performance of a vehicle that was just fine as is (or was):hiding:
Yes I know....
I suppose what I’m trying to figure out is, since I’m spending roughly $1150 getting new tires installed already, should I just go ahead and spend another $600 for lighter, wider & better looking rims?
I don’t know if going from 265’s to 275’s will add back the 40lbs lost due to lighter rims, but it will still be 40 less lbs of rotating weight over the oem rims either way, right? Plus going w/ a less toothy tread (as I said my current tires are pretty aggressive offroad/mud tires) to more of a highway & sand freindly AT tire will be less rolling resistance right?
That’s how I see it. Is this faulty reasoning?
JD

Look,
You can justify it in your mind all you want but you cannot break the laws of physics.
If you add any weight to your unsprung weight (tires, wheels) you will take a hit on efficiency, especially in city driving. How much? Who knows. Everyone drives differently but I can guarantee you it will be worse.
Trying to get back to "zero" by installing lighter wheels and less aggressive tread is a good idea but unless you want to spend $4K+ on a set of Ray's Wheels then you are just pissing in the wind.

Let me just answer a bunch of questions you haven't asked yet while we're here:
Add a roof rack you will reduce your mpg's.
Add skids you will reduce your mpg's.
Add a lift you will reduce your mpg's.
Add a front or rear bumper you will reduce your mpg's.
Add bigger tires you will reduce your mpg's.
Add heavier tires you will reduce your mpg's.
Add any weight at all you will reduce your mpg's



If you add all of the above you will be lucky to get 13-14 mpg on the highway, 10-11 around town.

Yes, I know I am no fun but facts are facts.

Let's keep going:
Unless you race your 4Runner or live 50 miles down a dirt road you travel daily or you pull a 5K trailer 3X/wk you only need to change your oil every 10K miles. People who change it earlier are just wasting money for piece of mind. There are numerous oil sample reports that prove 10K is just fine in all but the worst conditions possible. Adding a Thule on top is not severe duty.

Let's see, what else...
Your 4Runner already has a Cold Air Intake. Adding another does not do a thing for efficiency. If you add a CAI, headers and complete exhaust you can maybe pick up a few HP is all, not even enough to make up the loss for all the mods discussed above.

Yes, black wheels look fine, silver, chrome and gray do too. You can fit a 285 on 7 1/2" stock rims, wheel spacers or incorrect wheels with the wrong backspace will make you rub easier and you need new UCA's to get your caster back to 4 if you lift.

Good Luck.

 

[jjdbike]

Look,
You can justify it in your mind all you want but you cannot break the laws of physics.

Yes, I know I am no fun but facts are facts.

Good Luck.

Thanks 1engineer! You are the man for sure & actually you ae fun because I agree w/ you. Fact are facts & you know A LOT of them.
Thanks for sharing them & for your patcience w/my OCD, ignorance & lack of experince w/ 4x4 mods!
Tack care.
JD

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Thats always been the problem with some mods. Do a lift like a 2.5" and the symmetry gets knocked off because the wheels and tires look off.

Then you upgrade the wheels and tires and have to be super careful you don't get into rubbing issues. If you get rubbing issues you have to either do body mods or start monkeying with offsets or changing wheels again. It's a vicious cycle.

I am fortunate in that my TE with KDSS likely has more capability than I do offroad so modifications are a moot point.

I did put on TRD black wheels a week ago that I love and I'd like to do a conservative level of the front, but I won't do that if it affects the handling or KDSS in any way, shape or form.

Good luck to you. The mod habit is a hard one to break.

 

[jjdbike]

Thats always been the problem with some mods. Do a lift like a 2.5" and the symmetry gets knocked off because the wheels and tires look off.

Then you upgrade the wheels and tires and have to be super careful you don't get into rubbing issues. If you get rubbing issues you have to either do body mods or start monkeying with offsets or changing wheels again. It's a vicious cycle.

I am fortunate in that my TE with KDSS likely has more capability than I do offroad so modifications are a moot point.

I did put on TRD black wheels a week ago that I love and I'd like to do a conservative level of the front, but I won't do that if it affects the handling or KDSS in any way, shape or form.

Good luck to you. The mod habit is a hard one to break.

Nice ride man. Man did you nail it as far as where I'm at w/ the buggy.
Glad I'm not the only one:jump:
JD

 

[mrevilandy]

Driving habits and keeping the engine internals clean will do more for mpg imho. I remember when I had my oddessy with those heavy ass Paz wheels/tires about a 100 lbs each. Did some after market rims and tires around40lbs a tire still had the same mpg until I changed my driving habits

 

[Paragon1]

I'm running duratracs on 18x9 fuel mavericks. I average almost 19 on the interstate, granted I'm not lifted as high. The duratracs are fantastic in sand, and its light. Super quiet on the interstate too for how aggressive it is. May be worth a look.

 

[derekp]

Im was running stock 2013 SR5 rims and Goodyear ATs (the Walmart version of Duratracs the best I can tell) and was happy to get 18.5-19 mpg highway. I recently bought another set of stock 4Runner wheels and put my old stock tires on them and consistently get over 20mpg. I got 21mpg on my last 55 mile trip. Is it the best scenario for you to run two sets of wheels? I dunno, but it worked for me. Summer/road trip wheels and winter/offroad wheels.

 

[Cymon]

Look,
You can justify it in your mind all you want but you cannot break the laws of physics.
If you add any weight to your unsprung weight (tires, wheels) you will take a hit on efficiency, especially in city driving. How much? Who knows. Everyone drives differently but I can guarantee you it will be worse.
Trying to get back to "zero" by installing lighter wheels and less aggressive tread is a good idea but unless you want to spend $4K+ on a set of Ray's Wheels then you are just pissing in the wind.

Let me just answer a bunch of questions you haven't asked yet while we're here:
Add a roof rack you will reduce your mpg's.
Add skids you will reduce your mpg's.
Add a lift you will reduce your mpg's.
Add a front or rear bumper you will reduce your mpg's.
Add bigger tires you will reduce your mpg's.
Add heavier tires you will reduce your mpg's.
Add any weight at all you will reduce your mpg's



If you add all of the above you will be lucky to get 13-14 mpg on the highway, 10-11 around town.

Yes, I know I am no fun but facts are facts.

Let's keep going:
Unless you race your 4Runner or live 50 miles down a dirt road you travel daily or you pull a 5K trailer 3X/wk you only need to change your oil every 10K miles. People who change it earlier are just wasting money for piece of mind. There are numerous oil sample reports that prove 10K is just fine in all but the worst conditions possible. Adding a Thule on top is not severe duty.

Let's see, what else...
Your 4Runner already has a Cold Air Intake. Adding another does not do a thing for efficiency. If you add a CAI, headers and complete exhaust you can maybe pick up a few HP is all, not even enough to make up the loss for all the mods discussed above.

Yes, black wheels look fine, silver, chrome and gray do too. You can fit a 285 on 7 1/2" stock rims, wheel spacers or incorrect wheels with the wrong backspace will make you rub easier and you need new UCA's to get your caster back to 4 if you lift.

Good Luck.

You should definitely copy and paste this response into a word doc to save you time rewriting/reposting this a couple of times a week (if not more). I'm actually surprised you haven't done that already.:keyboard: