Will you keep your 4runner if gas hits $8 a gallon?

[mscot]

PHEVs are not gas powered cars, They are golf carts with a small gas powered auxiliary motor to keep the Energizer bunny hopping along for a few more feet..

I've only looked at two PHEVs and that statement is true for neither.
The RAV4 Prime has the same engine as the regular hybrid Rav4. a 2.5l 4cyl.
Same for the Lexus version.
The BMW X5 PHEV has a 3.0 V6.
And using the gas motor to "keep the Energizer bunny hopping along for a few more feet" isn't how the cars work. They'll either give you the ~30 around town as EV and then switch to hybrid mode when needed, or just do a more efficient back and forth between EV and gas - just like a regular hybrid only with more battery. They don't just run the EV out of juice then limp home on gas.

 

[engineeer]

PHEVs are not gas powered cars, They are golf carts with a small gas powered auxiliary motor to keep the Energizer bunny hopping along for a few more feet.

Comparing that to vehicles that 95% of people are driving today is a complete joke.

EDIT: removed personal attack.


As long as I maintain my 4Runner it should run for as long as I can drive. The price of a gallon is edging closer to that $8 mark every day in the original post. $6.60 a gallon as of now at my closest Chevron station.

My point of reference is driving a PHEV Range Rover, which was a rather enjoyable experience. If more PHEV vehicles drive like that, I don't think it'll be too bad.

For those, like you, that prefer gasoline powered vehicles, you can continue to enjoy another 13 years of new, purely gas-powered vehicle production and an entire used car market of purely gas-powered vehicles thereafter.

If that's not enough, you can also move to a different state. That's one of many benefits of living in the USA

OPEC and Russia just agreed to cut production of oil to increase prices further. I personally want to no longer fund, enrich, or rely on those countries. Having seen friends powering EVs via purely solar power (via rooftop solar) is something magical and I wish I could do the same right now.

 

[engineeer]

All this discussion about EVs and the challenges they present and that's just for commuting and errands. Put offroading and towing on the table and it will be a long time before an affordable, viable option is available absent some quantum leaps in technology.

Do you think it's fair to compare 100+ years of gas-powered vehicle production to the relatively nascent, 10-year old EV vehicle production?

Were gasoline powered vehicles anywhere near as amazing as they are now 10 years after they were invented? Networks of gas stations as vast? Of course not. These things take time to develop.

Battery tech will continue to improve (I have friends with engineering PhDs working to make this happen), efficiency will improve, charging networks will improve, and before you know it EVs will be as carefree to drive as their current counterparts.

 

[Mada89]

Probably but would probably get an electric moto for the trips I didn't need the full vehicle.

 

[TK-422]

Do you think it's fair to compare 100+ years of gas-powered vehicle production to the relatively nascent, 10-year old EV vehicle production?

Were gasoline powered vehicles anywhere near as amazing as they are now 10 years after they were invented? Networks of gas stations as vast? Of course not. These things take time to develop.

Battery tech will continue to improve (I have friends with engineering PhDs working to make this happen), efficiency will improve, charging networks will improve, and before you know it EVs will be as carefree to drive as their current counterparts.

I have no problem with that at all and encourage it. In fact what you posted it exactly what is wrong with what the current very corrupt political regime. They are making millions pushing it NOW at all costs while the technology is slowly making it's way forward.

Solar is great for many things. In fact I have two high power solar fans to keep my attic and garage cool. I also have a back yard koi pond that has 2 100W panels with deep cell batteries to keep the pumps running all night.

I am not opposed to solar. I am opposed to our corrupt politicians that are willing to kill our economy to make mandates that are not near ready for prime time. They know few people want or can afford them so they push this crap to look good knowing they will in no way have to do this themselves.

 

[Bluesky 07]

I have no problem with that at all and encourage it. In fact what you posted it exactly what is wrong with what the current very corrupt political regime. They are making millions pushing it NOW at all costs while the technology is slowly making it's way forward.

I am not opposed to solar. I am opposed to our corrupt politicians that are willing to kill our economy to make mandates that are not near ready for prime time. They know few people want or can afford them so they push this crap to look good knowing they will in no way have to do this themselves.

[MENTION=152226]engineeer[/MENTION] - I agree with this response. I'm all for progress. I had partial solar hot water heating on my house in Florida back in 1988 and religiously recycle. I would add that sure, it's apples and oranges to compare EVs' evolution to internal combustion, and you're preaching to the choir there. I spent most of my career in aviation and am still astounded that we went from the Wright Flyer to supersonic flight in 44 years and large intercontinental jets not long after that. So yes, good things are coming...someday.

But we don't have the luxury of anticipating what EVs will be capable of doing in the next century. Those available now and in the near future are the reality we have to live with. And as [MENTION=128995]TK-422[/MENTION] said, it's the fear-mongering, profiteering, and relentless shoving of alternative sources down our throats when those technologies are far from ready that's unpalatable here. Not to mention the deliberate downplaying of the real economic and ecological costs of alternative sources. Oh, and that your EV becomes a doorstop when the battery needs replacing for thousands of dollars.

I know this much - the politicians won't be shivering or dying of heat stroke when the systems they force on the public fail under extreme conditions.

 

[mscot]

The reason we were able to do so much in Aviation in such a short time is b/c of Government/Military investment.
There's no reason we can't do the same with electric vehicles, solar, and Nuclear.

The US is in the position it has enjoyed the past several decades b/c of two things.
1. Europe and Japan being destroyed in WW2 while the US had built up a large manufacturing base
2. As a nation we were willing to invest in progress and nation building. The only thing our nation is willing to invest in now is "likes".

We've been slipping for a while now and its b/c we allow our infrastructure to crumble, our space programs to slip, mergers that created monopolization of defense contractors so we have single points of failures that destroy our abilities. blah blah blah hblah blah
it ****ing sucks and everyone is to blame

 

[JaSC1]

Can EV batteries be recycled? How many tons of earth must be stripped mined to get the Lithium and who's doing the mining. Where do the battery components come from and who controls the resource? China? Ukraine? Russia? Are there enough components to replace every ICE on the road in America today? and the entire industrialized world?

Further, can solar panels be recycled? How efficient are they really? 20%? 10%? Can the huge windmill vanes that are killing birds be recycled?

Is any of the Green new deal really green or is it just magical thinking, NIMBLY, so I don't see the damage but I can thump my chest? When was the electric car introduced in NYC? 1895? If they were all that they would not have died off. Now, the government will force people to buy an EV!!?

No good can come from this, not a thing.

 

[TK-422]

Oh! and there is this.

Electric vehicles catching fire in aftermath of Hurricane Ian, Florida official warns

 

[gomiami]

Can EV batteries be recycled? How many tons of earth must be stripped mined to get the Lithium and who's doing the mining. Where do the battery components come from and who controls the resource? China? Ukraine? Russia? Are there enough components to replace every ICE on the road in America today? and the entire industrialized world?

Further, can solar panels be recycled? How efficient are they really? 20%? 10%? Can the huge windmill vanes that are killing birds be recycled?

Is any of the Green new deal really green or is it just magical thinking, NIMBLY, so I don't see the damage but I can thump my chest? When was the electric car introduced in NYC? 1895? If they were all that they would not have died off. Now, the government will force people to buy an EV!!?

No good can come from this, not a thing.

The Green New Deal is a marketing scheme. It has nothing to do with the environment. It has everything to do with making beaucoup dinero.

 

[JaSC1]

The Green New Deal is a marketing scheme. It has nothing to do with the environment. It has everything to do with making beaucoup dinero.

I see that a new Cobalt mine has opened, rather reopening in Idaho. The only one in the US. No strip mining here, going to hide it. It was last opened in 1982 and may have enough material left for 1 mil EVs. A whole 1 mil and the cobalt mined still needs to go to China to refine.

 

[CallItKenny]

Yes. But, may use the Ol’ KLR650 more. 4Runner stays, though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[-E5J-]

I just wanted to add to your theory:

its all about control, and the perception of choice. If i can take away your choice, by never giving you the choice in the first place, I can control you without force. All lies are self fulfilling prophecies if you repeat it enough times, because people are naturally idiots and choose to live in a echo chamber, hence why control of information is so important. Same with resources.. You don't know you are poor until someone tells you that you are poor or its already too late (shrinking middle class)

So lets use oil as a example, and pretend I am a billionaire:
1. If i can stop drilling in the US, and move drilling to a country with lower labor costs, I benefit financially.
2. If i can create a shortage, and increase the price per oil, i benefit financially.
3. If i can subsidize green energy technology which requires oil for manufacturing, i benefit financially.
4. if the cost of producing electricity requires oil, i benefit financially.
5. if i can weaponize energy dependency for regional security, I benefit financially.
6. if i can create a inflation scenario, i benefit financially.
7. If i can make the end user/consumer pay for energy (believing its all natural), i benefit financially.
8. countries (cartels) and big business control energy pricing and demand, not the end user/consumer, i benefit financially.
9. if i have a political party in my pocket or has a easily manipulated power base, i benefit financially


I love it when people say oil is dead...We are on the verge of ww3, EU needs energy or it will be on the verge of economic collapse and africa is on the verge of famine all because of a energy crisis due to one country (russia) deciding it wanted to change all the rules, and opec won't increase energy production......yup..oil is dead alright..ROOFL

100%. Very well put.

 

[BlackCloud]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Vladimir Lenin

 

[gomiami]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Vladimir Lenin

Lenin was a master truth teller based on that quote.

 

[aa010175]

Yes I will. Dave

 

[RoadRunner44]

Gas is now under $3 per gallon here in NM. I'm buying a new 2023 4Runner although I'd rather buy a Rivian R1S, they just aren't ready to sell me one. Maybe in a couple years. The 4Runner is a lot cheaper but I'd love to have a vehicle that is just as capable off-road, just as good for camping/skiing/road trips, drives like a sports car on the road, and is more advanced in nearly every way, and have it be fully electric or at least a PHEV. We installed solar panels early this year so we could charge at home for free- it's just a matter of time before we have at least one EV and likely two. I'll enjoy the 4Runner for a couple years though, and maybe longer...

 

[Flyer]

Yeah, it is around $3 here in Colorado too but it does not change much for us in the sense that we are still looking to buy one primary vehicle that is an EV. Currently, it is the Rivian R1S since we bailed on the Tesla. Once we have that, I can sell all but one gasoline vehicle since we will need two. They are all paid off so not a big deal even if it mostly sits.

Glad the lower gas prices are helping folks. It is a crushing expense, given how reliant we are on personal vehicles, and the lack of transportation infrastructure in most cities and practically non-existent in rural areas.

I have noticed among friends and acquaintances who commute, that more and more now use electric bikes to go the 10-20 miles each way to work. While this is a very cycling and fitness-centric state to begin with, and most just use regular bikes, there are folks I never thought would commute on any type of bike. We do have dedicated cycling/walking-only paths that spider the area but it is still surprising. I do not know it is was high gas prices or Covid that got these people out, but I easily see 2-3 times as many people commuting by bicycle now.

 

[mscot]

[MENTION=55129]Flyer[/MENTION] do you put in 85 or 87? I've always kept it at 87 but saving $7 or $8 every time I fill up wouldn't hurt.

 

[Owl..]

I'd have rather bought an electric 4x4, truth be told. But, given that gas isn't yet $8, i still have some time to enjoy this engine.

I figure once these start being left in storage, it's time for someone to start converting older cars to electric.