Good catch. The Amsoil I use is WS and it has been great.
"WS" Transmission Fluid stands for...
- Thread starter CJ3Flyr
- Start date
Good catch. The Amsoil I use is WS and it has been great.
Montego Murph
Member
I'm going to continue my question here since there's so much great info in here to help future searches...
Even after reading that bulletin you posted from Toyota, I'm still a little unclear: I have an '03 5-Speed with a dipstick which, if I understand correctly, came from the factory with Type IV fluid. This says that sometime in 2004, Toyota switched to WS-type fluid. Am I understanding correctly that WS fluid is what should now be used in a fluid exchange, or is the unsealed transmission supposed to use Type IV? I have another thread somewhere discussing WS vs Maxlife and then this topic came up.
Someone needs to explain this to me in kindergarten terms because I don't understand why the presence of a dipstick would require the transmission to use a different type of fluid.
KC Murphy: Overthinking everything since 1972
Last edited:
pjbrownva
New member
The WS standard is a newer fluid and Toyota designed their newer transmissions to use it.
You have an older transmission design that was designed to use the older style fluid, and the new transmission designs no longer have a dip stick.
That’s it.
Last edited:
pjbrownva
New member
My understanding is that it's best for you to use Type IV fluid, because your transmission was designed, and tuned with shift points and behavior based on the Type IV fluid.
The type WS fluid has a lower viscosity at any given temperature within the normal expected temp range, and thus WS fluid could alter the shift characteristics or shift points of your transmission.
I doubt that WS would damage anything, it just would alter the behavior to make it different from what was intentionally chosen when your transmission was designed and tuned to work with your engine and your truck.
I have no idea whether the actual difference would be noticeable or simply academic, and while different in theory, I cannot tell if anyone driving would notice -- I just don't know the answer.
The graphic I posted earlier has the flowing text listed as a "service tip"
"If a vehicle with a transmission filled with ATF WS is replenished with another type of ATF, the vehicle might not start off at extremely low temperatures. However, it will start off after it has been warmed up for a few minutes"
So, as transmission fluid gets hotter, the fluids become less viscous.
This service tip says that because WS fluid tends to have lower viscosity than other fluids, if your newer transmission is refilled with non-WS fluid, when it is extremely cold outside, the non-WS fluid may be thick enough that it doesn't flow properly, and won't allow the truck to move when you shift it into gear.
However, Toyota notes that after you allow the engine, and thus the transmission fluid, to warm up for a few minutes, then the non-WS fluid will become viscous enough to allow your transmission to shift.
So, Toyota seems to be saying that if you have a newer transmission and use a non-WS fluid, you (likely) won't damage anything, but to the extent that the fluid is more viscous, you might find that you cannot drive your truck in extremely cold conditions until after you have let the fluid warm up for a few minutes. Can't drive, as in, when you put the truck in gear, it won't move.
Your question is about the converse of this situation... or more specifically, what if you put WS fluid in a transmission that is designed for a more viscous fluid.
My guess is that the transmission might shift sooner, or that shifts may occur slightly faster since a a less-viscous fluid would flow faster. I do not know if the difference would be noticeable, meaningful, or damaging in anyway.
My best guess is that any observed differences would be negligible. That the lower viscosity might make shifts "less smooth", but I don't know if it would be enough to notice, and I would assume that the more viscous fluid would complete a shift sooner, which I'm assuming would allow less slip and thus theoretically slightly less wear each time the transmission shift.
But those are all just educated guess that could be wrong.
I doubt you'd see catastrophic failure from switching to WS. You probably would get longer fluid life out of WS -- although I have no way of knowing WHEN you should change the WS fluid, but it's likely that it would be sooner than the factory spec for newer vehicles, because your transmission isn't the same as newer vehicles, and I am skeptical that you would notice any improvements from using WS fluid, although I can't be certain.
I hope this answer is more informative.
-Phil
ZRosBabys4Runner09
Junior Member
So NOW im confused
Hi. Sorry to pipe in on a thread thats so old, but it looks as if I am not, by far, the first to do so. Since I have now comforted myself into believing that theres nothing at all wrong with such behavior.... I have a couple questions
1) Our 2009 T4R is the limited v8 full time 4wd model, automatic. It has begun to have a slight vibration thats somewhat intermittent... almost like if you tied a vibrating ball to a hula hoop and spun it. It comes around then eases off and then gradually gets worse again, etc. I have checked the driveshafts and the wheel bearings and the pinion/yoke etc, and have not found what the source of this vibration could be. And its more noticeable through the gas pedal than anywhere else in the car. Is it possible that this could be the tranny slipping? I do not know when, if ever, the tranny has been serviced as I have no records of anything before we became its new owners. We have had it for somewhere around 30,000 miles so Im wondering if old fluid might be the culprit. Not asking for professional opinions or anything that will hold up in a court of law... Im just curious of what others might think.
2) Should I go ahead and do a drain and fill with the Amsoil product that yall keep talking about in this thread? OR: Is it possible that IF it is slipping ever so slightly that a drain and fill with new fluid may be detrimental to the transmission as it is in other vehicles that have begun to slip and then had the fluid changed? Id hate to change the fluid and that be the cause of a catastrophic failure coming much sooner.
3) We drive this thing like its a baby. Other than occasionally I will get into the throttle fairly hard and do some VERY spirited driving through traffic for a bit. But thats not very often. That being said: Would you recommend a fluid change every 30,000 miles, or should I be good with going at 60?
I am a MoPar man at heart. All my other vehicles are v8 Dodges. They have proven to be able to hold up to the abuse. This is our first Toyota and I have always heard that a Toyota is good for a half a million miles or more if properly taken care of. I want this car to last as long as it possibly can bc my wife had been so long without her own vehicle before she got the T4R. I have been EXTREMELY impressed with the durability and performance of both the T4R as well as my father in laws 07 Tundra 5.7. That truck long ago made Toyota my go to vehicle if ever I wandered ever so slightly away from MoPar. I wanted to get her something with a Hemi.... But gas mileage seems to be pretty important to her. As for me??? Well they just keep building gas stations so they MUST have MoPar in mind!!! LOLO... Thank yall for ANY input yall might have. I truly appreciate your time. Hope yall are having a terrific day.
Hi. Sorry to pipe in on a thread thats so old, but it looks as if I am not, by far, the first to do so. Since I have now comforted myself into believing that theres nothing at all wrong with such behavior.... I have a couple questions
1) Our 2009 T4R is the limited v8 full time 4wd model, automatic. It has begun to have a slight vibration thats somewhat intermittent... almost like if you tied a vibrating ball to a hula hoop and spun it. It comes around then eases off and then gradually gets worse again, etc. I have checked the driveshafts and the wheel bearings and the pinion/yoke etc, and have not found what the source of this vibration could be. And its more noticeable through the gas pedal than anywhere else in the car. Is it possible that this could be the tranny slipping? I do not know when, if ever, the tranny has been serviced as I have no records of anything before we became its new owners. We have had it for somewhere around 30,000 miles so Im wondering if old fluid might be the culprit. Not asking for professional opinions or anything that will hold up in a court of law... Im just curious of what others might think.
2) Should I go ahead and do a drain and fill with the Amsoil product that yall keep talking about in this thread? OR: Is it possible that IF it is slipping ever so slightly that a drain and fill with new fluid may be detrimental to the transmission as it is in other vehicles that have begun to slip and then had the fluid changed? Id hate to change the fluid and that be the cause of a catastrophic failure coming much sooner.
3) We drive this thing like its a baby. Other than occasionally I will get into the throttle fairly hard and do some VERY spirited driving through traffic for a bit. But thats not very often. That being said: Would you recommend a fluid change every 30,000 miles, or should I be good with going at 60?
I am a MoPar man at heart. All my other vehicles are v8 Dodges. They have proven to be able to hold up to the abuse. This is our first Toyota and I have always heard that a Toyota is good for a half a million miles or more if properly taken care of. I want this car to last as long as it possibly can bc my wife had been so long without her own vehicle before she got the T4R. I have been EXTREMELY impressed with the durability and performance of both the T4R as well as my father in laws 07 Tundra 5.7. That truck long ago made Toyota my go to vehicle if ever I wandered ever so slightly away from MoPar. I wanted to get her something with a Hemi.... But gas mileage seems to be pretty important to her. As for me??? Well they just keep building gas stations so they MUST have MoPar in mind!!! LOLO... Thank yall for ANY input yall might have. I truly appreciate your time. Hope yall are having a terrific day.
Last edited:
AuSeeker
Elite Member
You failed to state how many miles is on her T4R?
firebirdguy
Member
Myself & countless others have replaced the WS with Valvoline Maxlife, priced a lot better than the other brands and is available everywhere including walmart. Maxlife was one of the first multi use ATFs rated for WS use, it is full synthetic and very close in viscosity to WS. I did a full exchange on my 08 V6 4runner 4-5 years ago and its made a noticeable improvement in shifting, others have said it helped or eliminated shudder issues which are common in these 4runners. New fluid with anti shudder additives like Maxlife will definitely help depending on bad it is, there is also an additive made just for this called "shudder-fix" that can be used when replacing fluid.
A full exchange using the trans pump by starting teh car is the easiest way to get it all out doing 2 qt cycles of pumping out then adding same amount back in via the fill hole on the side of the trans using a tube & funnel held above the fender or a hand pump. 12-13qts total so do ~6 cycles.
A full exchange using the trans pump by starting teh car is the easiest way to get it all out doing 2 qt cycles of pumping out then adding same amount back in via the fill hole on the side of the trans using a tube & funnel held above the fender or a hand pump. 12-13qts total so do ~6 cycles.
Last edited:
SurferUK
Member
I think a lot of it has to do with "folk lore" that has built up around automatic gearboxes over the decades. They were not common here until recently, so I had no pre-existing conditioned concerns about changing used ATF for new somehow grenading my gearbox. No more than I would about an oil change grenading my engine, or a diff oil changing grenading the diff. The fact it flows through a few clutches and solenoids doesn't change basic mechanical theory.
I think maybe the exchange using the transmission pump is better than pressurised(?) machine flushes, but that's only a hunch.
