"WS" Transmission Fluid stands for...

[CJ3Flyr]

Wimpy Sh**!:upset::upset::upset:

Well we all know that WS fluid in our 'sealed' autos is supposed to be the best stuff since sliced bread. I'm here to tell you it ain't so...:nono:


My T4R has towed for roughly 10% of it's 44,970miles. I have been towing most of my life and am very 'in-tune' with when to be in D when to be in 4 etc. Toyota suggests for vehicles that tow (and are using WS fluid) that the fluid be changed at 60k. Normally I'd call BS and half that number. Based on my Titan* and it's fluid at 40 something I thought this new fangled, current generation stuff is better than it used to be. Not so.


I changed it today. The fluid that came out was truly straw/brown colored, virtually no pink hue left and it smelled like it had been burnt. I am very disappointed. IMHO if you don't tow 50-60k is the right interval and if you do tow 30-40k is probably the right number. And I have an aux cooler!:bash: Hell, my '99 Trooper was easier on fluid than this thing. Between the weak 3.5L and the 4L30E that thing rode around with the converter unlocked a lot and should've cooked fluid!



The sad thing is I suspect we're going to have very expensive transmissions failing shy of 150k based on the lie of WS.


I think I'm going to buy an old pan with a dipstick and just go old school on it... Such a crock in the name of marketing!:twak::dammit::wtf:



The good news is the shifting is silky smooth again and it's tremendously more consistent as to when it shifts. It shifted ok before but the shift points seem to vary a bit in spite of my butt-o-meter indicating the accelerations were very similar. If you're going for 250k and live in the warm climate change the fluid. The good news is most cheap Dexron VI is compatible w/WS. We now have a cheap, easy to find supply of fluid. No excuses! I used Amsoil but to do all over again I'd use the cheapest crap every 25-30k.


*Background- Nissan has J-matic which is their version of WS.

:cheers:

 

[drmorbius]

Wimpy Sh**!:upset::upset::upset:

Well we all know that WS fluid in our 'sealed' autos is supposed to be the best stuff since sliced bread. I'm here to tell you it ain't so...:nono:


My T4R has towed for roughly 10% of it's 44,970miles. I have been towing most of my life and am very 'in-tune' with when to be in D when to be in 4 etc. Toyota suggests for vehicles that tow (and are using WS fluid) that the fluid be change at 60k. Normally I'd call BS and half that number. Based on my Titan* and it's fluid at 40 something I thought this new fangled, current generation stuff is better than it used to be. Not so.


I changed it today. The fluid that came out was truly straw/brown colored, virtually no pink hue left and it smelled like it had been burnt. I am very disappointed. IMHO if you don't tow 50-60k is the right interval and if you do tow 30-40k is probably the right number. And I have an aux cooler!:bash: Hell, my '99 Trooper was easier on fluid than this thing. Between the weak 3.5L and the 4L30E that thing rode around with the converter unlocked a lot and should've cooked fluid!



The sad thing is I suspect we're going to have very expensive transmissions failing shy of 150k based on the lie of WS.


I think I'm going to buy an old pan with a dipstick and just go old school on it... Such a crock in the name of marketing!:twak::dammit::wtf:



The good news is the shifting is silky smooth again and it's tremendously more consistent as to when it shifts. It shifted ok before but the shift points seem to vary a bit in spite of my butt-o-meter indicating the accelerations were very similar. If you're going for 250k and live in the warm climate change the fluid. The good news is most cheap Dexron VI is compatible w/WS. We now have a cheap, easy to find supply of fluid. No excuses! I used Amsoil but to do all over again I'd use the cheapest crap every 25-30k.


*Background- Nissan has J-matic which is their version of WS.

:cheers:

This is not good news. Do you suppose that some of the problems others have had such as not shifting out of reverse in a timely fashion and hunting at freeway speeds could in part be due to this? In any case this is important info, and it almost seems like we should tell Alaskaman to change his fluid which he was about to do last month.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

This is not good news. Do you suppose that some of the problems others have had such as not shifting out of reverse in a timely fashion and hunting at freeway speeds could in part be due to this? In any case this is important info, and it almost seems like we should tell Alaskaman to change his fluid which he was about do last month.

:iagree: not good news. Not that mine was hunting bad or being extremely erratic but it's much better now. I guess the less than ideal performance creeps up on you and you really notice when you finally get it worked out.

I do know I can accelerate harder without the converter unlocking and/or a full downshift. As far as R to D is concerned, it is a little quicker and more positive feeling.

I would highly recommend AKMan try some fresh fluid and make the tech show him a sample of his old fluid and a couple of drops of new. Appearence and smell is strikingly different.

:cheers:

 

[eskimochaos]

I dont like the sound of this either....do you think that its "designed" to look like that after 40XXX miles or not?

Do you think that your case is unique and that if I looked at mine at similar mileage it wouldnt look like that?

Do you think that your after market tranny cooler has anything to do with it?

Just some questions I'd like to pose for you and others to chime in on.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I dont like the sound of this either....do you think that its "designed" to look like that after 40XXX miles or not? Very good question/point... The "oil guys" are very quick to say you don't know anything until you run an analysis. I agree partially. At some point, especially with trans fluid, you just know. Odor is the big giveaway and visually the change of color is significant. Unlike the engine where blowby and combustion byproducts contribute to the oils color change the transmission doesn't have those issues, it should remain fairly pink.

Do you think that your case is unique and that if I looked at mine at similar mileage it wouldnt look like that? I hope (for everybody else) that I am unique. I don't think I am. My guess of 10% towing is a little high, no doubt. All the towing this vehicle has done is low drag stuff... No TT's. Add to that I have an added cooler and I have little doubt that others' fluid condition will be similar to mine.

Do you think that your after market tranny cooler has anything to do with it? I've added many coolers. I know it's working properly and helping not hurting. Without it I am sure the old fluid would've been worse!

Just some questions I'd like to pose for you and others to chime in on.

I too am interested in what others find. If you know stuff like this it's no big deal. If you discover it by rebuilding a $2500 trans at 125k miles that sucks!
:cheers:

 

[eskimochaos]

I too am interested in what others find. If you know stuff like this it's no big deal. If you discover it by rebuilding a $2500 trans at 125k miles that sucks!
:cheers:

Gracias

Did you get all 11+ quarts out? How?

Thanks Chris

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Gracias

Did you get all 11+ quarts out? How?

Thanks Chris

Yes. Drain, fill (4quarts), remove return line from transmission cooler, crank it up. When it gurgles out the line shut it off, add 4 more quarts, start it up and when you see fresh, pink shut it off, reinstall line and refill per procedure. I bought 13 quarts and could've done the job with 12. There's always some loss...

:cheers:

 

[skeetr1163]

hey guys, just wanted to comment about this thread since it is very timely for me right now. I too was experiencing the transmission thumping that lots of 4runners have. I had all my fluids replaced with Amsoil, at a shop. They completely flushed the transmission and replaced with Amsoil ATL. To make a long story short, I took my 4runner to the dealer to look at my transmission for the jerking problem. When they found out I did not use Toyota WS as a replacement, they said I voided the warranty. I called the 800 Toyota customer line and the lady read out of the owners manual that using any thing other than WS may result in degraded performance. The dealer refuses to work with me and listen that it is not against any rule to use fluid that meets Toyota specifications. I am now starting action with Toyota legal about this issue and filing a complaint with the Texas motor vehicle commision on warranties. There is a federal law, the Magnuson-Moss warranty act which states a manufacturer cannot require the use of any brand of product unless they provide the product free of charge under the terms of the warranty. Keep your reciepts and make sure the fluids meet the manufacturer specs. I will update you as my drama continues....

 

[nc211]

Yes. Drain, fill (4quarts), remove return line from transmission cooler, crank it up. When it gurgles out the line shut it off, add 4 more quarts, start it up and when you see fresh, pink shut it off, reinstall line and refill per procedure. I bought 13 quarts and could've done the job with 12. There's always some loss...

:cheers:

This is perfect CJ! I had asked the question about a year or so ago somewhere on here if you could just use the car's internal pump to pump out the old fluid via the cooler lines. I'm coming up on 80k on our 05, still has the original WS fluid in it. I need to get this done too, and the dealership says it's a $350 job (hahaha...whatever).

Since you're the only one I've found on here that's actually serviced the sealed transmission, mind if I bounce a couple of questions your way?

1) Did you let the fluid heatup to operating temp before draining it out?
2) Which line on the trans cooler are you pulling to have it drain out "top or bottom?"
3) So: basically, let it heat up to normal op temp - pull the drain plug first "well, make sure the fill plug can come off first" - measure out how much drains out -put drain plug back in - fill with new fluid at same amount that came out - then pull the cooler line, start it, let it drain through that - measure how much came out - replace via fill plug with same amount - until it's pink again. That's basically the routine?

Thanks CJ!

 

[G.I.G.]

Wow, very interesting. Thanks for the info, CJ. This brings up a good point regarding synthetics and "miracle" fluids as I call them.

I run Mobil 1 Synthetic in my 4R and I change it religiously at 5k mile intervals. I have had a LOT of people tell me that I am wasting my time and money and to just change the filter at 5k because synthetic oil lasts longer. I don't buy that. Yes, synthetic oil might not break down as quickly as dino oil, but it can't suspend any more contaminants then dino oil. In fact, on Mobil 1's website they say that you should still change your oil at the standard manufacturer suggested intervals, even if you are using (the standard) Mobil 1.

Oil, regardless of where it is (tranny, engine, diffs, etc.), acts not only as a lubricant, but as a filter. Oil traps carbon and other contaminants that filters can't trap. The contaminants are suspended until the oil reaches a point of saturation at which point they start causing wear on internal components. Synthetics, and in this case, WS, may lubricate better but most likely don't trap more contaminants. What that tells me is that despite what auto makers and synthetic oil companies tell us, synthetics still need to be changed at pretty standard intervals and not extended intervals like they suggest.

After hearing this and having my own experience changing out my gear oil at 30k miles, I am not convinced that Toyota has the best maintenance schedules in place for these vehicles. Maybe because they are trying to make them out to be lower maintenance/lower cost of ownership vehicles. Case in point.....

I changed my gear oil at 30k miles even though the maintenance schedule didn't call for them to be changed for much longer. I just wanted the piece of mind of having Mobil 1 synthetic in my boxes vs. the factory dino gear oil. When I drained the front, center, and rear diff, I was very glad I was changing it when I did. The front and center diffs (I have the full-time 4x4) were a murky, dark gray color and both drain plug magnets were covered with metallic sludge. The center diff looked more like used motor oil. It didn't look terrible but it was medium to dark brown. About what you would expect to see when you are changing your engine oil when you should be. After changing the gear oil in the diffs I immediately noticed that I got less binding in the drivetrain when making tight turns or getting in and out of parking spots. I know this is common with full-time 4-wheel drive (I noticed it in my old Grand Cherokee too) but it improved drastically after changing the gear oil. Could this have something to do with going from dino to synthetic? Sure. But it also tells me that it was a good thing I changed the gear oil at 30k miles and not the 60k miles (or higher depending on which diff) that Toyota suggests.

Long story short....It's 5k oil changes, 30k gear oil changes, and (from hearing this story) 60k tranny fluid changes for me.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

hey guys, just wanted to comment about this thread since it is very timely for me right now. I too was experiencing the transmission thumping that lots of 4runners have. I had all my fluids replaced with Amsoil, at a shop. They completely flushed the transmission and replaced with Amsoil ATL. To make a long story short, I took my 4runner to the dealer to look at my transmission for the jerking problem. When they found out I did not use Toyota WS as a replacement, they said I voided the warranty. I called the 800 Toyota customer line and the lady read out of the owners manual that using any thing other than WS may result in degraded performance. The dealer refuses to work with me and listen that it is not against any rule to use fluid that meets Toyota specifications. I am now starting action with Toyota legal about this issue and filing a complaint with the Texas motor vehicle commision on warranties. There is a federal law, the Magnuson-Moss warranty act which states a manufacturer cannot require the use of any brand of product unless they provide the product free of charge under the terms of the warranty. Keep your reciepts and make sure the fluids meet the manufacturer specs. I will update you as my drama continues....

Very good point but losing validity by the minute (whether the dealer knows it or not). WS was one of the 1st applications of synthetic, light-weight ATF. Until recently WS and Redlines ATF were the only two you could use. With the advent of Dexron VI we now have many more options and it's confirmed right on the bottle as a legit replacement for WS. Amsoil has recently added their product in the mix... That's the one I used. If your Amsoil is the new formula you should win instantly.

We're back to the age old "do I need to use Toyota engine oil and filter to keep my warranty?" We know the answer is no. The risk we run is having to get a 3rd party engaged to be made whole. It's a risk that each person must decide for themselves. I know Redline, Amsoil and other reputable companies are very proud of their products and won't likely laydown and take the blame, nor should they! I have no issues using a proper viscosity, WS compatable fluid.
:cheers:
:cheers:

 

[CJ3Flyr]

This is perfect CJ! I had asked the question about a year or so ago somewhere on here if you could just use the car's internal pump to pump out the old fluid via the cooler lines. I'm coming up on 80k on our 05, still has the original WS fluid in it. I need to get this done too, and the dealership says it's a $350 job (hahaha...whatever).

Since you're the only one I've found on here that's actually serviced the sealed transmission, mind if I bounce a couple of questions your way?

1) Did you let the fluid heatup to operating temp before draining it out? Yes. And it must be heated for the final fluid level checking. Idling (w/chocked wheels) in the safest gear (R or D) worked for me. Don't set yourself up to crash into the garage or get run over.... It took a while though. http://www.lcool.org/technical/100_series/auto_fluid/auto.htm
2) Which line on the trans cooler are you pulling to have it drain out "top or bottom?" See below. Mine is a V6, 4wd, 2007. The V8 might be different. I'd guess all the V6 5speeds to be the same. It's the bottom line on the radiator.
3) So: basically, let it heat up to normal op temp - pull the drain plug first "well, make sure the fill plug can come off first" - measure out how much drains out -put drain plug back in - fill with new fluid at same amount that came out - then pull the cooler line, start it, let it drain through that - measure how much came out - replace via fill plug with same amount - until it's pink again. That's basically the routine? Yes. I didn't bother measuring my intermediate fills. I just put in 4qts as the drain and fill capacity is listed at 4qts and you don't even put it gear much less drive it.

Thanks CJ!

I chose to break into the system here. I put a 5/8 box wrench over the end of the hose so it doesn't flail around like a cartoon firehose, aimed it into the drain pan and let her rip. I put the blue tape to remind me which line was which for next time. You won't have blue tape.
:cheers:

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Wow, very interesting. Thanks for the info, CJ. This brings up a good point regarding synthetics and "miracle" fluids as I call them.

...Oil, regardless of where it is (tranny, engine, diffs, etc.), acts not only as a lubricant, but as a filter. Oil traps carbon and other contaminants that filters can't trap. The contaminants are suspended until the oil reaches a point of saturation at which point they start causing wear on internal components. Synthetics, and in this case, WS, may lubricate better but most likely don't trap more contaminants. What that tells me is that despite what auto makers and synthetic oil companies tell us, synthetics still need to be changed at pretty standard intervals and not extended intervals like they suggest.

After hearing this and having my own experience changing out my gear oil at 30k miles, I am not convinced that Toyota has the best maintenance schedules in place for these vehicles. Maybe because they are trying to make them out to be lower maintenance/lower cost of ownership vehicles. Case in point.....

I changed my gear oil at 30k miles even though the maintenance schedule didn't call for them to be changed for much longer. I just wanted the piece of mind of having Mobil 1 synthetic in my boxes vs. the factory dino gear oil. When I drained the front, center, and rear diff, I was very glad I was changing it when I did. The front and center diffs (I have the full-time 4x4) were a murky, dark gray color and both drain plug magnets were covered with metallic sludge. The center diff looked more like used motor oil. It didn't look terrible but it was medium to dark brown. About what you would expect to see when you are changing your engine oil when you should be. After changing the gear oil in the diffs I immediately noticed that I got less binding in the drivetrain when making tight turns or getting in and out of parking spots. I know this is common with full-time 4-wheel drive (I noticed it in my old Grand Cherokee too) but it improved drastically after changing the gear oil. Could this have something to do with going from dino to synthetic? Sure. But it also tells me that it was a good thing I changed the gear oil at 30k miles and not the 60k miles (or higher depending on which diff) that Toyota suggests.

Long story short....It's 5k oil changes, 30k gear oil changes, and (from hearing this story) 60k tranny fluid changes for me.

:iagree: 100%

 

[eskimochaos]

This is perfect CJ! I had asked the question about a year or so ago somewhere on here if you could just use the car's internal pump to pump out the old fluid via the cooler lines. I'm coming up on 80k on our 05, still has the original WS fluid in it. I need to get this done too, and the dealership says it's a $350 job (hahaha...whatever).

Since you're the only one I've found on here that's actually serviced the sealed transmission, mind if I bounce a couple of questions your way?

1) Did you let the fluid heatup to operating temp before draining it out?
2) Which line on the trans cooler are you pulling to have it drain out "top or bottom?"
3) So: basically, let it heat up to normal op temp - pull the drain plug first "well, make sure the fill plug can come off first" - measure out how much drains out -put drain plug back in - fill with new fluid at same amount that came out - then pull the cooler line, start it, let it drain through that - measure how much came out - replace via fill plug with same amount - until it's pink again. That's basically the routine?

Thanks CJ!

Please let us know what the trans fluid looks like! What do you plan on replacing it with? Furthermore, the V8 is one of the easiest on oil as I have said before. I am sure you can attest to that because its barely brown after 5k even on the dino oil that the dealer uses for me.

Chris, what's your driving style?

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Chris, what's your driving style?

After the engine is warm I floor it from 20mph- 65/70mph once a week. The rest of the time I drive with avg mpg displayed and strive to get the number as high as possible. In other words, with the exception of highway cruisin in the mid 70's, I am slow & gentle. I am never 1st off of a red light, I am never last either (but I am close to last). I have a very steady foot on the pedal too. As a carry over from towing bigger, heavy stuff behind diesel pickups and flying passengers I'm all about smooth... I am about as smooth, slow and gentle as you can be without pissing everybody else off.:lmao:
:cheers:

 

[eskimochaos]

So it sounds like your a very conservative driver. Here is some more food for thought.

The manual says 60k trans fluid changes if you tow. Your at 45k - do you deem that the fluid was satisfactory based on this 60k baseline of changing? I understand that you dont tow too much but the manual clearly states it. It sounds as if the fluid wasnt absolute toast.

Furthermore, the A750F transmission comes straight from the land cruiser. I have said this countless times but the last place the engineers would skimp would be the in the drive-train. I am sure that they analyzed the fluid after X amount of miles. Keep in mind that the land cruiser weighs over 1k more than the 4R so the transmission needs to "work" harder than in the 4runner so it should be lighter on fluid in the 4R. Furthermore, they didnt move to the WS type fluid until the 04 model year of the land cruiser - the 03 had the five speed but had traditional fluid, this was also the year they made the transmission "sealed". Is the 4Runner the same way? Did the 03 have the non sealed 5speed?

Lastly, is there anyway to get a quick sample of the tranny fluid? Like a couple of drops on a towel just to look at it? Can you disconnect the line from the tranny cooler in the V8 while the car is off and just dab some out or is it under pressue even when off?

Oh yea, I dont mean to "criticize" your trans cooler install but is their a filter that the V8 has in that line that perhaps your kit didnt include? IDK if it would do much as it seems damage to trans fluid is temperature based - and thus causes contaminant build up but would a filter reduce this?? Im just trying to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks again.

P.S. I drive 130 miles a day. I floor it numerous(10+) times a day between merging, passing, and spirited driving of course after sufficient warming time usually ~8miles before I give the right pedal a run for its money.

P.S.S My mom's LC has never had her trans fluid changed and shes at 90k - the car still shifts seamlessly - and she has a lead foot as well.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

The manual says 60k trans fluid changes if you tow. Your at 45k - do you deem that the fluid was satisfactory based on this 60k baseline of changing? I understand that you dont tow too much but the manual clearly states it. It sounds as if the fluid wasnt absolute toast. For non-towers and non-offroaders, based on my fluid, I would say 60k is the correct interval. If your T4R tows, even 2x/year, I would suggest 30-40k. If all it did was tow a car trailer or TT I'd say less than 30k.

Furthermore, the A750F transmission comes straight from the land cruiser. I have said this countless times but the last place the engineers would skimp would be the in the drive-train. I agree, very little or no skimping on the LC. My guess is the fluid capacity is substantially higher due to a different design transmission pan and perhaps a larger external cooler. Ours run 11.x quarts total. My guess is they run 13+. Those extra couple of quarts will work miracles on temp. The part #'s for the trans pan on an 06 LC and an 06 V8 T4R are different...I am sure that they analyzed the fluid after X amount of miles. Keep in mind that the land cruiser weighs over 1k more than the 4R so the transmission needs to "work" harder than in the 4runner so it should be lighter on fluid in the 4R. Furthermore, they didnt move to the WS type fluid until the 04 model year of the land cruiser - the 03 had the five speed but had traditional fluid, this was also the year they made the transmission "sealed". Is the 4Runner the same way? Did the 03 have the non sealed 5speed? 03 T4R V8 =non-sealed, Type IV fluid; V6= 4sp auto, Type IV fluid.

Lastly, is there anyway to get a quick sample of the tranny fluid? Like a couple of drops on a towel just to look at it? Can you disconnect the line from the tranny cooler in the V8 while the car is off and just dab some out or is it under pressue even when off? Yes. With the transmission warm start the engine and put in R, D then P. Leave it running. Get underneath and remove the small allen screw that's recessed into the transmission oil pan. Remove it just enough to let the dribble hit a white paper towel and screw it back in.

Oh yea, I dont mean to "criticize" your trans cooler install but is their a filter that the V8 has in that line that perhaps your kit didnt include? IDK if it would do much as it seems damage to trans fluid is temperature based - and thus causes contaminant build up but would a filter reduce this?? Im just trying to get to the bottom of this. No "extra" filter in the V8 or LC. Some companies do offer additional, spin-on type filters for the transmission. Generally most people don't use one, even those who tow a good bit. The people who have a Duramax or Powersmoke and do nothing but tow a big TT with an exhaust and chip may opt for the slight amount of extra protection afforded by an additional filter. What they are really gaining is added capacity. A good, dual spin-on setup can add more tha 3qts depending on which filter is used.

Thanks again.

P.S. I drive 130 miles a day. I floor it numerous(10+) times a day between merging, passing, and spirited driving of course after sufficient warming time usually ~8miles before I give the right pedal a run for its money.

P.S.S My mom's LC has never had her trans fluid changed and shes at 90k - the car still shifts seamlessly - and she has a lead foot as well.

I do know that the V6 is good but when it's very warm outside it struggles a bit more than a V8 would (even with the added weight of the LC). The V6 at 1000ft of elevation on a 95 degree day is working hard due to the loss of atmospheric density and the fan clutch being engaged pretty hard. The V8 can better afford those losses.

IMHO the way all this shakes out is the torque of the V8 facilitates and allows the transmission to spend a greater portion of the time with the torque converter locked, basically in "direct drive" mode. The TC is the single, largest source of trans heat by far. The more time it spends unlocked (some level of slippage) the more heat it makes, period. The TC on a V6 tends to spend more time unlocked as it struggles to meet the demand for sufficient torque output. This is at the root of the age old "do I tow in 4 or D?" question. The other factor besides percentile of time with the TC locked is how frequently does it upshift/downshift? The goal is to be in the right gear so as to spend as much time with the TC locked as possible (to aid in controlling the heat). Keeping it from shifting, excessively, also helps to control heat as that silky smooth shift we all enjoy comes at a price; a few seconds of major heat generation.

For those reasons I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a V8 T4R, especially a non-towing V8 T4R, is easier on the trans fluid than a V6. Those reasons combined with a capacity difference would explain the LC.

That's my take...

:cheers:

 

[drmorbius]

I do know that the V6 is good but when it's very warm outside it struggles a bit more than a V8 would (even with the added weight of the LC). The V6 at 1000ft of elevation on a 95 degree day is working hard due to the loss of atmospheric density and the fan clutch being engaged pretty hard. The V8 can better afford those losses.

IMHO the way all this shakes out is the torque of the V8 facilitates and allows the transmission to spend a greater portion of the time with the torque converter locked, basically in "direct drive" mode. The TC is the single, largest source of trans heat by far. The more time it spends unlocked (some level of slippage) the more heat it makes, period. The TC on a V6 tends to spend more time unlocked as it struggles to meet the demand for sufficient torque output. This is at the root of the age old "do I tow in 4 or D?" question. The other factor besides percentile of time with the TC locked is how frequently does it upshift/downshift? The goal is to be in the right gear so as to spend as much time with the TC locked as possible (to aid in controlling the heat). Keeping it from shifting, excessively, also helps to control heat as that silky smooth shift we all enjoy comes at a price; a few seconds of major heat generation.

For those reasons I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a V8 T4R, especially a non-towing V8 T4R, is easier on the trans fluid than a V6. Those reasons combined with with a capacity difference would explain the LC.

That's my take...

:cheers:

Any chance the LC tranny pan would fit your T4R? I know that's what you're thinkin'?!

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Any chance the LC tranny pan would fit your T4R? I know that's what you're thinkin'?!

You mind reader you... I need to research more and figure out if there really is a capacity difference and if the pan is the source

 

[drmorbius]

You mind reader you... I need to research more and figure out if there really is a capacity difference and if the pan is the source

You know, if it did work it would be a new mod as I'm sure I haven't seen that on any board.:dancin: