wtf Colorado?

If San Francisco can openly choose not to enforce immigration laws, couldn't other cities do same regarding gun laws? Of course, the Feinstein bill also provides funding for growing the ATF to enforce her ban. So, it probably won't matter what local government/ LE wants.

Yeah but ATF enforces federal law (which hasn't happened yet and I don't really see it happening anytime soon at this point). So these state level laws would not fall under ATF jurisdiction. It is ultimately up to the local law enforcement to enforce these laws and as far as I can tell, that probably won't happen, at least not outside Denver city limits.

That said, I do not intend to push my luck by trying to purchase banned items... I'm just getting what I can before July 1st. I'll let time and good ol' democracy handle the rest.
 
Yeah but ATF enforces federal law (which hasn't happened yet and I don't really see it happening anytime soon at this point). So these state level laws would not fall under ATF jurisdiction. It is ultimately up to the local law enforcement to enforce these laws and as far as I can tell, that probably won't happen, at least not outside Denver city limits.

That said, I do not intend to push my luck by trying to purchase banned items... I'm just getting what I can before July 1st. I'll let time and good ol' democracy handle the rest.

I haven't really followed these bills closely. However, what is to stop a Colorado resident from buying "prohibited" items out of state or having a friend or family member buy them and bring them when they visit? I'm primarily thinking about high capacity magazines here but I suppose that would work with everything else. If you did get "caught" with a high cap mag can't you just say you owed or purchased it prior to the "ban" date?
 
I haven't really followed these bills closely. However, what is to stop a Colorado resident from buying "prohibited" items out of state or having a friend or family member buy them and bring them when they visit? I'm primarily thinking about high capacity magazines here but I suppose that would work with everything else. If you did get "caught" with a high cap mag can't you just say you owed or purchased it prior to the "ban" date?

Exactly. From what I recall they are depending on the manufacturers to begin using serial numbers that correspond with production dates... good luck with that. With no existing registration requirements and no onus to maintain personal receipts/records pre-ban, it is basically impossible to enforce.

My personal angst is to make sure I'm in the state before the ban takes effect. I could see them saying, well you moved here July 5th so clearly your mags weren't in the state pre-ban.

Now if the manufacturers cave (or a national ban takes effect) it might become a bigger issue. It would be amusing if they were forced to do this and put the serial numbers on something easily swapped, like the baseplate.

I'm interested to see if these Repub senators will stick to their word and go buy mags in Utah and bring them back after July 1st.
 
Exactly. From what I recall they are depending on the manufacturers to begin using serial numbers that correspond with production dates... good luck with that. With no existing registration requirements and no onus to maintain personal receipts/records pre-ban, it is basically impossible to enforce.

My personal angst is to make sure I'm in the state before the ban takes effect. I could see them saying, well you moved here July 5th so clearly your mags weren't in the state pre-ban.

Now if the manufacturers cave (or a national ban takes effect) it might become a bigger issue. It would be amusing if they were forced to do this and put the serial numbers on something easily swapped, like the baseplate.

I'm interested to see if these Repub senators will stick to their word and go buy mags in Utah and bring them back after July 1st.

I just wondered because my friend is moving to Colorado sometime around May or later. I didn't know if he would be allowed to bring his rifle and mags with him. Also, what could stop me from buying up some pmags and bringing them with me to Colorado the next time I visited and selling them to him and his friends? Doesn't seem likely to be very effective to ban them in one state.
 
I just wondered because my friend is moving to Colorado sometime around May or later. I didn't know if he would be allowed to bring his rifle and mags with him. Also, what could stop me from buying up some pmags and bringing them with me to Colorado the next time I visited and selling them to him and his friends? Doesn't seem likely to be very effective to ban them in one state.

As is stands, the amendment would not take effect until July 1st (assuming the Goobernor signs it into law today), so he should be fine.

In all reality you could do just that... whether or not it could get you into legal trouble or not is a different issue. In effect you would be breaking the law. And remember, it's not just about beating a case, its about affording the defense to do so (look at George Zimmerman). You have to decide if that's a risk you are willing to take.
 
Isn't the law about purchasing clips and not having an issue if you already possess them?

I own a Colt M4 with about 7 or 8 30 round clips and I'm not worried about owning them just as I'm sure 1000s of other Coloradans own them too. I already own all the guns I'll ever own and am not really concerned over the laws as much as a gunowner who is really into the hobby since none of them affect me.
 
Isn't the law about purchasing clips and not having an issue if you already possess them?

I own a Colt M4 with about 7 or 8 30 round clips and I'm not worried about owning them just as I'm sure 1000s of other Coloradans own them too. I already own all the guns I'll ever own and am not really concerned over the laws as much as a gunowner who is really into the hobby since none of them affect me.

Correct - it's about preventing you from getting them after the ban date. Buying, selling, transferring after July 1st is a no-no.

Here's a quick summary
HOUSE BILL 13-1224
The bill prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of an
ammunition feeding device that is capable of accepting, or that can be
readily converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition or more
than 5 shotgun shells (large-capacity magazine). A person may possess
a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine on the effective date of the bill and maintains continuous possession of
the large-capacity magazine.

A person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity
magazine in violation of the new provision commits a class 2
misdemeanor.

A large-capacity magazine that is manufactured in Colorado on or
after the effective date of the bill must include a serial number and the
date upon which the large-capacity magazine was manufactured or
assembled. The serial number and date must be legibly and conspicuously
engraved or cast upon the outer surface of the large-capacity magazine.

The Colorado bureau of investigation may promulgate rules that may
require a large-capacity magazine that is manufactured on or after the
effective date of the bill to bear identifying information in addition to the
serial number and date of assembly.

A person who manufactures a large-capacity magazine in Colorado
in violation of the new provision commits a class 2 misdemeanor.

What this doesn't cover is what will happen when a person visits from out of state or moves to CO after the ban date, which is why I intend to be in the state by 7/1.

And never say never... I have way more than I thought I would ever own. I enjoy variety and so do the friends that accompany me to the range. :tongue:
 
to my friends in the CO, i have 23 pre-ban p-mags i will sell you for "normal" price once i get my hands on some new ones...there's a few groups around the country right now who are setting up to help you guys! also magpul has stock piled a bunch of mags that they are only selling to CO residents due to ban date.....
Magpul | Unfair Advantage
 
to my friends in the CO, i have 23 pre-ban p-mags i will sell you for "normal" price once i get my hands on some new ones...there's a few groups around the country right now who are setting up to help you guys! also magpul has stock piled a bunch of mags that they are only selling to CO residents due to ban date.....
Magpul | Unfair Advantage

That's a nice gesture but the way it's written prevents CO residents from buying them from you after July 1st even if created before July 1st. Not that they would ever know the difference... and I don't expect Magpul to comply with the serial numbering, assuming they move.

I like what Magpul is doing here. I wish they would put the smack down on some of these retailers. My LGS looks like they got a MAgpul shipment in but had PMAGs marked for $45!

It will be interesting to see what Magpul does with this list of Colorado gun owners they're getting from this promotion. My name sure won't be on it.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you think they will do?
 
That's an interesting perspective. What do you think they will do?

I have no idea but they've gotten lots of publicity and sales out of this. They have gained a significant database of gun owners against the current legislation as well as a very good list before this.

They were smart enough to capitalize on the moment so who knows how they'll capitalize on the new mailing list they have. While I have no idea what they'll do I'm smart enough not to add myself to their list.
 
I have no idea but they've gotten lots of publicity and sales out of this. They have gained a significant database of gun owners against the current legislation as well as a very good list before this.

They were smart enough to capitalize on the moment so who knows how they'll capitalize on the new mailing list they have. While I have no idea what they'll do I'm smart enough not to add myself to their list.

I find it hard to believe they would do anything to alienate the gun community after doing so much to get in, and stay, in its good graces. The founder and owner is ex-mil and doesn't strike me as the type that would hand over such a list.

Plus - big picture - what makes them any different than any other retailer you shop at, online, or brick and mortar? They all have at least your name and purchases unless you use cash every time. That goes for guns, ammo, accessories, even shooting ranges.
 
You're right that they are no different than other retailers for the most part which is the problem. I don't know the owner and what his standards will be in the future but it's best to assume their list will probably be shared in some way at some time.

I'm quite careful of who knows what about me, everyone should be. There's a lot of info gatherers around and this is commonly shared for a price. A long time ago I experimented a bit and used a variation on my name when buying something online or where registration, etc is required. To this day I get mail addressed to those variations, the few now are abundant.

Best to trust oneself rather than a stranger.
 
From your link: "The numbers are few, but growing." Pretty vague isn't it?

Has Magpul left yet or are they too busy making money?

So much "news" on the web is useless opinions not substantiated by fact.
 
From your link: "The numbers are few, but growing." Pretty vague isn't it?

Has Magpul left yet or are they too busy making money?

So much "news" on the web is useless opinions not substantiated by fact.

I imagine it will be hard to quantify until you have this year's season numbers to compare to last year. Check out some gun forums... each one that I'm a member of has threads specifically discussing CO and where people are moving their plans elsewhere. Who knows how big the impact will be, but I guarantee it will be more impactful that these new laws.

Magpul claims they intend to move still but will not release details for now. Only time will tell. I've stated my position on them and don't really care either way.

Edit: Magpul has dropped some hints on FB lately. Here's a recent post:
Apparently Gov Hickenlooper has announced that he will sign HB 1224 on Wednesday. We were asked for our reaction, and here is what we said:

We have said all along that based on the legal problems and uncertainties in the bill, as well as general principle, we will have no choice but to leave if the Governor signs this into law. We will start our transition out of the state almost immediately, and we will prioritize moving magazine manufacturing operations first. We expect the first PMAGs to be made outside CO within 30 days of the signing, with the rest to follow in phases. We will likely become a multi-state operation as a result of this move, and not all locations have been selected. We have made some initial contacts and evaluated a list of new potential locations for additional manufacturing and the new company headquarters, and we will begin talks with various state representatives in earnest if the Governor indeed signs this legislation. Although we are agile for a company of our size, it is still a significant footprint, and we will perform this move in a manner that is best for the company and our employees.

It is disappointing to us that money and a social agenda from outside the state have apparently penetrated the American West to control our legislature and Governor, but we feel confident that Colorado residents can still take the state back through recalls, ballot initiatives, and the 2014 election to undo these wrongs against responsible Citizens.

Right on.
 
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More reaction:

Subject: OUTDOOR CHANNEL Pulls Productions from Colorado

Dear Senator King;

I met you yesterday after the so-called "public hearings" on the antigun bills; as I mentioned, I am an Executive Producer for OUTDOOR CHANNEL. I currently have four series in production, included GUN STORIES, the top show on OC, with several additional series in development. My series focus on guns, hunting, shooting and the outdoors.

This morning I met with my three Producers, and we made the decision that if these antigun bills become law, we will be moving all of our production OUT of Colorado. We have already cancelled a scheduled filming session for late this month. Obviously, part of this is due to our own commitment to the right to keep and bear arms, but it also reflects 3 lawyers' opinions that these laws are so poorly drafted and so designed to trap otherwise legal citizens into a crime (one of our attorneys referred to them as "flypaper laws") that it is simply too dangerous for us to film here.

I can give you chapter and verse on the legal implications if you need, but suffice to say that the first legal opinion was so scary we went out and got two others. Al three attorneys agreed.

We are relatively small potatoes in television, but our relocation of production will cost Colorado a little less than a million dollars in 2013.

Secondly, we have proudly promoted Colorado in our productions (and have been moving more and more production into the state); now we will do exactly the opposite. What does this mean for Colorado? The community of television producers is a small one. Last week I had lunch with a major network producer who was looking to locate his new reality series in Colorado. That producer is also a shooter, and the new reality series will now be based out of Phoenix. That lunch cost Colorado over a million in economic impact.

Thirdly, according to numbers I received from the National Shooting Sports Foundation (for whom I used to work) yesterday, hunting had an almost $800,000,000 impact on Colorado in 2012, driving as many as 8330 jobs. Next month I will be in Texas meeting with most of the top outdoor/hunting producers, and the Number One agenda item will be Colorado. Already, hunting organizations and statewide hunting clubs around the country are pulling out of Colorado, and we expect this trend to accelerate rapidly.

The message we will take to our viewers and listeners is that these proposed laws are so dangerous to hunters and any other person, be she a fisherman or a skier who brings a handgun into the state for self-defense, that we cannot recommend hunting, fishing or visiting Colorado. We reach millions of people, and, quite frankly, we have a credibility that Colorado government officials can no longer match. Colorado Division of Wildlife is already running ads trying to bring more out-of-state hunters to Colorado...in light of the flood of negative publicity about these proposed laws, I can assure you those ads will fail.

We estimate that as many as one-quarter to one-third of out-of-state hunters will desert Colorado in the next 18-24 months, which will quite frankly be a disaster for the hunting industry in Colorado and have a devastating effect on our western and northern communities (certainly like Grand Junction).

This is not a "boycott" in the traditional sense of a centralized, organized operation; rather, it is more of a grassroots decision on where shooters, hunters and other sportsmen are willing to spend their money. Look at the collapse of the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in February. That venerable multimillion dollar trade show chose to ban modern sporting rifles and standard capacity magazines, and with three weeks it collapsed as all vendors and sponsors pulled out.

Colorado is going to pay a huge price for laws that will do nothing. Thank you, sir, for your support.
Best.

Michael Bane

Related article

Colorado could lose up to $800 million in revenues due to new gun ban laws - National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com
 

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