Yellow fog lights versus white fog lights?

[Bocomo]

I just wanted some opinions on yellow fog lights versus white fog lights?

 

[bonedoctor]

I've got the JAOS Challenger lights with the yellowish JDM bulbs. Also put yellow bulbs in the factory fogs lamps to fill in the area in front of the vehicle and to match the color of the JAOS lights. From my experience, the yellowish lamps seemed to illuminate better with wet or snowy conditions. When I was living in Colorado, they JAOS lights were pretty useful and really lit up the snowy roads nicely. I'm in Missouri now, with little to no snow, little rain recently and I haven't used the JAOS lights but very rarely.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I had a set of Silverstar H3 fogs to match my headlamps but the problem was in the rain or when the pavment was wet they just worked so-so but when I added a set of Hella Yellowstars they complimented the headlamps nicely and I could see much better.

If you encounter alot of wet weather defiently get yellow fogs since it's the color that is making the diff.

 

[Jacobzky]

Yellow fogs doesn't reflect the light back to you when driving on fog filled road. i used to have super white for my fog and all i see is glare, lights bouncing back. with the yellow, it penetrates through fog or i'd say less light bouncing back at you. so i went and changed my fog to a 2500K bulb. the same goes when it rains.

 

[wiseguy]

Where to buy?

Sounds like the yellow bulbs are the way to go for the fogs. Could you guys post where you bought them and what is involved in changing the fog bulbs? Thanks in advance.

 

[bonedoctor]

I ordered the yellow bulbs on-line. Look for ones that are JDM-type, 'cause they'll be the yellowish ones and you'll have more options. Look in my signature for the exact kind I bought. They're yellow, but I might be tempted to go to even a lower Kelvin color temp than mine. The bulbs should list the color temperature. Off the top of my head, I'd say the 2500K ones are pretty yellow and ones like my fogs (3700K) are still yellow enough. The fog bulbs change out just like the headlight bulbs and are the same style (9005s or 9006s, can't remember which). Just gotta get on your back under the bumper. Takes just a minute or two.

Yellow really does work well on wet surfaces and snow.

 

[Bocomo]

I had planned to order them from here http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

 

[Jacobzky]

check them at automotivelightingusa.com

 

[bonedoctor]

I had planned to order them from here http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

Man, that's a blast from the past. I've got Cibie Z-beams, series 35 fogs and a stray series 40 driving lamp on my '71 BMW 2002. I didn't even know those were still available. Thanks for the link.

Back to your current question, I think I may have ordered mine from that Automotivelighting place 'cause its website looks familiar. I remember they had a bunch of the JDM stuff imported from Japan. When I got the bulbs, the packages were all in Japanese.

 

[InterGalactic]

What you really want are German bulbs. I use Narva Yellowstars, they're plasma ion coated bulbs. You can get them at www.rallylights.com. I also put yellow RockBlocker film over the fogs. The result is a very deep yellow beam. It's about as close a match as I can get to my PIAA 540 ion fogs.

 

[TRADICLES]

I just wanted some opinions on yellow fog lights versus white fog lights?

I JUST READ AN ARTICLE THAT STATES "YELLOW WAVELENGTH BEING LONGER THEREFORE IT IS REFLECTED LESS IS POPPYCOCK.RESEARCH HAS PROVEN THAT THE FOG DROPLETS ARE SO LARGE THAT ANY LIGHT SOURCE OR COLOR IS INEFFECTIVE.IT ALSO STATES THAT YELLOW BULBS HAVE A YELLOW COAT THAT TURNS WHITE LIGHT YELLOW,THIS COATING BLOCKS AS MUCH AS 20-30% OF THE FOG LIGHTS OUTPUT THEREFORE BEING COUNTERPRODUCTIVE."THIS IS FROM A PENN STATE SCIENTIST DR.CRAIG BOHREN.ISUGGEST TRYING BOTH COLORS IN WET/SNOWY CONDITIONS TO EVALUATE WHICH IS BEST FOR YOU.I AM USING PIAA 9006 HID BULBS IN MY FOGGIES AND LIKE THE LIGHT OUTPUT IN THE WET.IF YOU WANT TO READ THE ARTICLE,TYPE YELLOW FOG LIGHTS IN AT GOOGLE,THEN SELECT CAR TALK. ALSO READ: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF5/593.html

 

[blindside]

I use to have nokya yellow bulb on my fogs but since it's high wattage i decided to just take it out and slap on my hella optilux that i had on my accord before then i put on some lamin-x yellow film.. looks badass.. : it does help a lot on rainy and foggy days

 

[mysticz]

I gave up using the yellow halogen bulbs and put in 3000k yellow HID's instead. The past few nights we been having heavy fog and with the yellow HID's they cut right through the fog.

View from inside with HID fogs on

Front view of HID fogs.

Front view halogen yellow fogs.

Outside view halogen yellow fogs

 

[TRADICLES]

I use to have nokya yellow bulb on my fogs but since it's high wattage i decided to just take it out and slap on my hella optilux that i had on my accord before then i put on some lamin-x yellow film.. looks badass.. : it does help a lot on rainy and foggy days

I WAS DOING SOME RESEARCH ON THE SUBJECT AND CAN FIND ABSOLUTELY NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF PROOF OR STUDY THAT SAYS YELLOW IS BETTER THAN WHITE.THIS IS WHY I SUGGEST TRYING BOTH TO SEE WHICH COLOR YOUR EYES HAVE AN EASIER TIME VIEWING WITH.I HAVE HAD BOTH.READ ARTICLES ON GOOGLE.TYPE IN YELLOW FOG LIGHT,THEN READ "CAR TALK "AND ALASKA SCIENCE FORUM.THESE REPORTS WERE DONE BY EXPERTS.GOOD LUCK

 

[TRADICLES]

I gave up using the yellow halogen bulbs and put in 3000k yellow HID's instead. The past few nights we been having heavy fog and with the yellow HID's they cut right through the fog.

YOU ARE CORRECT.USE WHAT YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN.ACCORDING TO THE REPORTS PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEE BETTER WITH THE YELLOWS,BUT THEIR FINDINGS SAY OTHERWISE.

 

[TRADICLES]

YOU ARE CORRECT.USE WHAT YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN.ACCORDING TO THE REPORTS PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEE BETTER WITH THE YELLOWS,BUT THEIR FINDINGS SAY OTHERWISE.

There is no good reason why fog lights are yellow. Here is an
excellent explanation provided by Professor Craig Bohren of Penn State
University:


"First I'll give you the wrong explanation, which you can find here and
there. It goes something like this. As everyone knows, scattering (by
anything!) is always greater at the shortwavelength end of the visible
spectrum than at the longwavelength end. Lord Rayleigh showed this, didn't
he? Thus to obtain the greatest penentration of light through fog, you
should use the longest wavelength possible. Red is obviously unsuitable
because it is used for stop lights. So you compromise and use yellow
instead.


This explanation is flawed for more than one reason. Fog droplets are, on
average, smaller than cloud droplets, but they still are huge compared with
the wavelengths of visible light. Thus scattering of such light by fog is
essentially wavelength independent. Unfortunately, many people learn
(without caveats) Rayleigh's scattering law and then assume that it applies
to everything. They did not learn that this law is limited to scatterers
small compared with the wavelength and at wavelengths far from strong
absorption.


The second flaw is that in order to get yellow light in the first place you
need a filter. Note that yellow fog lights were in use when the only
available headlights were incandescent lamps. If you place a filter over a
white headlight, you get less transmitted light, and there goes your
increased penetration down the drain.


There are two possible explanations for yellow fog lights. One is that the
first designers of such lights were mislead because they did not understand
the limitations of Rayleigh's scattering law and did not know the size
distribution of fog droplets. The other explanation is that someone deemed
it desirable to make fog lights yellow as a way of signalling to other
drivers that visibility is poor and thus caution is in order.


Designers of headlights have known for a long time that there is no magic
color that gives great penetration. I have an article from the Journal of
Scientific Instruments published in October 1938 (Vol. XV, pp. 317-322).
The article is by J. H. Nelson and is entitled "Optics of headlights". The
penultimate section in this paper is on "fog lamps". Nelson notes that
"there is almost complete agreement among designers of fog lamps, and this
agreement is in most cases extended to the colour of the light to be used.
Although there are still many lamps on the road using yellow light, it
seems to be becoming recognized that there is no filter, which, when placed
in front of a lamp, will improve the penetration power of that lamp."


This was written 61 years ago. Its author uses a few words ("seem",
"becoming recognized") indicating that perhaps at one time lamp designers
thought that yellow lights had greater penetrating power. And it may be
that because of this the first fog lamps were yellow. Once the practice of
making such lamps yellow began it just continued because of custom."


Also, take a look at the following web site:
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF5/593.html

Dr. Lawrence D. Woolf
General Atomics
=========================================================

 

[TRADICLES]

There is no good reason why fog lights are yellow. Here is an
excellent explanation provided by Professor Craig Bohren of Penn State
University:


"First I'll give you the wrong explanation, which you can find here and
there. It goes something like this. As everyone knows, scattering (by
anything!) is always greater at the shortwavelength end of the visible
spectrum than at the longwavelength end. Lord Rayleigh showed this, didn't
he? Thus to obtain the greatest penentration of light through fog, you
should use the longest wavelength possible. Red is obviously unsuitable
because it is used for stop lights. So you compromise and use yellow
instead.


This explanation is flawed for more than one reason. Fog droplets are, on
average, smaller than cloud droplets, but they still are huge compared with
the wavelengths of visible light. Thus scattering of such light by fog is
essentially wavelength independent. Unfortunately, many people learn
(without caveats) Rayleigh's scattering law and then assume that it applies
to everything. They did not learn that this law is limited to scatterers
small compared with the wavelength and at wavelengths far from strong
absorption.


The second flaw is that in order to get yellow light in the first place you
need a filter. Note that yellow fog lights were in use when the only
available headlights were incandescent lamps. If you place a filter over a
white headlight, you get less transmitted light, and there goes your
increased penetration down the drain.


There are two possible explanations for yellow fog lights. One is that the
first designers of such lights were mislead because they did not understand
the limitations of Rayleigh's scattering law and did not know the size
distribution of fog droplets. The other explanation is that someone deemed
it desirable to make fog lights yellow as a way of signalling to other
drivers that visibility is poor and thus caution is in order.


Designers of headlights have known for a long time that there is no magic
color that gives great penetration. I have an article from the Journal of
Scientific Instruments published in October 1938 (Vol. XV, pp. 317-322).
The article is by J. H. Nelson and is entitled "Optics of headlights". The
penultimate section in this paper is on "fog lamps". Nelson notes that
"there is almost complete agreement among designers of fog lamps, and this
agreement is in most cases extended to the colour of the light to be used.
Although there are still many lamps on the road using yellow light, it
seems to be becoming recognized that there is no filter, which, when placed
in front of a lamp, will improve the penetration power of that lamp."


This was written 61 years ago. Its author uses a few words ("seem",
"becoming recognized") indicating that perhaps at one time lamp designers
thought that yellow lights had greater penetrating power. And it may be
that because of this the first fog lamps were yellow. Once the practice of
making such lamps yellow began it just continued because of custom."


Also, take a look at the following web site:
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF5/593.html

Dr. Lawrence D. Woolf
General Atomics
=========================================================

Do fog lights work? Do they help you see through the fog, or do they just light up the fog? Are yellow fog lights better than clear fog lights? Should they be mounted low on the vehicle to search forth underneath the fog cloud? I am so confused -- you might even say I am "foggy" on the fog-light issue. Therefore, I ask you to search through the fog of your collective brain cells and enlighten the world to the truth about fog lights. -- Pat

Ray: Great question, Pat. How I wish this were the only subject we were foggy on!

Tom: There are many different kinds of lights that people put on the front of their cars these days. There are driving lights, fog lights, Velux motorized sky lights ... we've seen 'em all. Most of them are purely decorative. And many are used and/or aimed incorrectly, and they simply blind oncoming drivers.

Ray: But fog lights, when used and aimed correctly, might be useful to some drivers. As you probably know, if you project light directly into the fog, it bounces off the fog droplets and reflects in all directions, making it even harder to see. That's why you use your low beams in fog rather than your high beams.

Tom: Fog lights are low-mounted lights (bumper level or below) that project light that's cut off at the top. So the light pattern on a good-quality fog light goes straight out at bumper level and down, but not higher than that.

Ray: The reason for this is that fog tends to hover about 12 to 18 inches off the ground. So by projecting light in that fog-free pocket, you can illuminate the road a greater distance from your car and therefore see farther ahead. Some people swear by fog lights. Others claim that they don't really make much difference.

Tom: So the question becomes, to yellow or not to yellow? There's a lot of debate about this, but the research says that yellow lights are no better than white lights at penetrating fog. The theory bandied about was that yellow light has a longer wavelength and is therefore less likely to be reflected by the fog particles. Turns out, this is complete poppycock.

Ray: Apparently, the fog particles themselves are so big that they reflect all colors of light. Basically, all light bounces off of them, so using yellow light instead of white light gives you no advantage.

Tom: Plus, in order to get yellow light, what fog-light manufacturers do is put a yellow lens over a white light. That cuts your light output by 20 percent to 30 percent, which is counterproductive.

Ray: So if you live in a coastal area where fog is a real problem and you want to give fog lights a try, we'd suggest a set of high-quality, white fog lights that are professionally mounted to be sure they're aimed correctly. And don't forget to check their aim periodically. Since they're mounted low, they can be knocked out of alignment when you run over things like snow banks and stalled Toyotas.

 

[TRADICLES]

Do fog lights work? Do they help you see through the fog, or do they just light up the fog? Are yellow fog lights better than clear fog lights? Should they be mounted low on the vehicle to search forth underneath the fog cloud? I am so confused -- you might even say I am "foggy" on the fog-light issue. Therefore, I ask you to search through the fog of your collective brain cells and enlighten the world to the truth about fog lights. -- Pat

Ray: Great question, Pat. How I wish this were the only subject we were foggy on!

Tom: There are many different kinds of lights that people put on the front of their cars these days. There are driving lights, fog lights, Velux motorized sky lights ... we've seen 'em all. Most of them are purely decorative. And many are used and/or aimed incorrectly, and they simply blind oncoming drivers.

Ray: But fog lights, when used and aimed correctly, might be useful to some drivers. As you probably know, if you project light directly into the fog, it bounces off the fog droplets and reflects in all directions, making it even harder to see. That's why you use your low beams in fog rather than your high beams.

Tom: Fog lights are low-mounted lights (bumper level or below) that project light that's cut off at the top. So the light pattern on a good-quality fog light goes straight out at bumper level and down, but not higher than that.

Ray: The reason for this is that fog tends to hover about 12 to 18 inches off the ground. So by projecting light in that fog-free pocket, you can illuminate the road a greater distance from your car and therefore see farther ahead. Some people swear by fog lights. Others claim that they don't really make much difference.

Tom: So the question becomes, to yellow or not to yellow? There's a lot of debate about this, but the research says that yellow lights are no better than white lights at penetrating fog. The theory bandied about was that yellow light has a longer wavelength and is therefore less likely to be reflected by the fog particles. Turns out, this is complete poppycock.

Ray: Apparently, the fog particles themselves are so big that they reflect all colors of light. Basically, all light bounces off of them, so using yellow light instead of white light gives you no advantage.

Tom: Plus, in order to get yellow light, what fog-light manufacturers do is put a yellow lens over a white light. That cuts your light output by 20 percent to 30 percent, which is counterproductive.

Ray: So if you live in a coastal area where fog is a real problem and you want to give fog lights a try, we'd suggest a set of high-quality, white fog lights that are professionally mounted to be sure they're aimed correctly. And don't forget to check their aim periodically. Since they're mounted low, they can be knocked out of alignment when you run over things like snow banks and stalled Toyotas.

 

[Bocomo]

Thanks for the information. It seems that is debatable as to which color to go with. I might try both and see which one works for me.

 

[TRADICLES]

I gave up using the yellow halogen bulbs and put in 3000k yellow HID's instead. The past few nights we been having heavy fog and with the yellow HID's they cut right through the fog.

View from inside with HID fogs on

Front view of HID fogs.

Front view halogen yellow fogs.

Outside view halogen yellow fogs

GREAT PICS,YOU HAVE A SWEEY SETUP!