Yet another LBJ question....lol

[tenro1]

Hi -

I have been reading for 2 days here on the forum about all the issues surrounding the LBJ's on 2001-2002 T4R's. Mine is a 2001 T4R, 2WD, and I am getting motivated to changing mine out. I have 238k on the mileage, and have no idea when these were last changed (Just bought the truck 3 weeks ago).

So, I don't do any off-roading, and no lift on the suspension. Everything is stock as far as I can tell.

I have read all the pros'/con's about OEM vs. aftermarket, and seems most of the failure issues happen with modified/lifted/4wd trucks. Not saying it can't happen to a 2wd stock runner, who knows? However, I am not totally convinced on the OEM side of the argument, and funds are limited so...

I am not trying to restart some of the emotional arguments/discussions I saw while reading through threads, but, I wanted to see if anyone can enlighten me a bit on the difference between NAPA premium LBJ's and Raybesto's professional grade LBJ's. Everything I am seeing is that they are essentially the same LBJ, just under a different name. Design and engineering seem to be the exact same.

Right now, I am leaning towards putting the Raybesto's on my Runner.

I have about convinced myself that Moogs are not the way to go - no matter what.

 

[JEL]

What is the price difference between those and OEM? Just curious, if it's not much I wouldn't really think it's worth saving $40-50 if the old ones aren't horrible now and can wait a bit. As I said in another thread, I did use Napa Premium stuff in an old Suburban 4x4 I used to use for going up to the mountains, shooting, dirt road driving, etc..., and they held up 100% for over 80k miles until the engine blew, all the parts seemed to be pretty well made, much better than Moog or any of those Autozone units at least. Still, I just did the front end on my 4x4 and the OEM stuff "felt" much better quality than anything else I had previously looked at.

 

[tenro1]

Thanks for that, but, it does not answer the question I am asking about NAPA vs. Raybestos.......

What is the price difference between those and OEM? Just curious, if it's not much I wouldn't really think it's worth saving $40-50 if the old ones aren't horrible now and can wait a bit. As I said in another thread, I did use Napa Premium stuff in an old Suburban 4x4 I used to use for going up to the mountains, shooting, dirt road driving, etc..., and they held up 100% for over 80k miles until the engine blew, all the parts seemed to be pretty well made, much better than Moog or any of those Autozone units at least. Still, I just did the front end on my 4x4 and the OEM stuff "felt" much better quality than anything else I had previously looked at.

 

[JEL]

Thanks for that, but, it does not answer the question I am asking about NAPA vs. Raybestos.......

I did mention the Napa stuff, saying it worked great for me on another rig. Only experience I have with Raybestos were brakes, but not front end. The napa front end stuff seemed to work well for me, so based on my experience that's what I would use in place of OEM if push came to shove.

 

[tenro1]

Ok - so how since you even say you didn't mention Raybesto's, then how did you answer my question by referencing a vehicle I don't even drive...?

I am not necessarily looking to buy either Napa or Raybesto's - I just want to know if they are supposed to be the same LBJ, under different names, thats all. Please re-read the original question.

 

[JEL]

I was on my phone and didn't see it well. In any case, the last set of Napa Premiums I used for my Mercedes had Lemforder (never heard of them before) stamped on them? Just another name to add to the mix. I guess they probably farm out their production to someone else, because I am almost 99% certain the parts I used on the Suburban had Warner stamped on them, and I'm pretty sure they are independent from Reybestos, I am almost certain the Lemforder brand is as well.

So I guess it's possible they are the same part for the 4runner.

 

[tenro1]

Anybody else, who can actually answer my question, want to chime in?

Sorry JEL, not trying to be mean, but, dude, you are all over the place with your vehicles and parts, which have nothing to do with my reason for starting this thread.

 

[hambob]

lol, I had a volkswagon van and I used napa brand lbj's and they worked great till I sold it. Does that help? lol

(just jokes, I'm sorry, I have no experience with those brand lbj's. I went OEM cause I would worry about them if I didn't)

Hope someone with experience can help

 

[tenro1]

Haha.....good one...

 

[541joseph]

Sorry I can't answer your question 100% never heard of that brand. What the cost difference between napa and those?


I know that if you get the high quality napa stuff it's almost as good as oem and for the price I do think its worth it. I try and stick with napalm high quality stuff because napa is a well known company and I know who to chew out if I have an issue.

 

[tenro1]

Pricing on Napa LBJ's can be equal to or actually a bit higher than OEM if you buy OEM online from a Toyo parts dept.

The Raybesto's Professional Grade is about $30-$40 less than Napa and online OEM on RockAuto right now per LBJ side. They promote their LBJ via a video, which to me seems to be the exact same LBJ as Napa premium.

So, my issue here is not primarily the pricing issue, but the engineering and quality issue. If the engineering and quality of the product is what they promote, then the pricing issue will be a moot point, since they advertise a lower price.

Unfortunately, I have read here on several threads that several people go to order the professional grade Raybestos, and end up getting the 555 brand in the box, which leads me to believe it may be a crap shoot when ordering online.

I am going to call RockAuto today, and inquire further. And then tomorrow I am going to try to call Raybestos and see what they have to say about it.

 

[BrianSD_42]

[MENTION=103242]tenro1[/MENTION]

Why don't you just buy OEM/Toyota?

Camelback Toyota Online Parts has them for ~ $70 / side.

NAPA is not superior to Toyota parts.


So again, why, since you say it isn't about the money wouldn't you buy the Toyota part?

 

[BrianSD_42]

A couple of things ....

They promote their LBJ via a video, which to me seems to be the exact same LBJ as Napa premium.

So, my issue here is not primarily the pricing issue, but the engineering and quality issue. If the engineering and quality of the product is what they promote, then the pricing issue will be a moot point, since they advertise a lower price.

1. 555 is not a brand it is a die casting. Multiple non-Toyota LBJs sold have 555. It mostly meaningless.

2. Your Toyota LBJs lasted you 220+ K MILES and still work right now. Why would you question their quality and go with another brand?

 

[tenro1]

[MENTION=10950]Brian[/MENTION]SD-42,

Thanks for your input.

To clarify - I never said Napa was superior to Toyota OEM. I only indicated that they appear to be pricier than the online toyota parts like camelback.

And, as indicated earlier in the thread, my main reason for looking at alternatives is because my money/funds are severely limited right now. I am also having to expend on tie rods (outer for sure) at this time, and rear shocks. If you can get LBJ's for my ride @ $70 from camelback, please send me the link. I was checking what I thought was the Camelback site just yesterday, and they were showing at something like $84 or $85 per side on LBJ's.

Send me the link so I can confirm your pricing.

As far as OEM vs aftermarket - I more than hear your point on longevity, quality, etc. And to that point, I would not have a problem switching out aftermarket LBJ's in a few months, after I get better situated financially.

FYI, I just got off the phone with RockAuto a few mins ago about the Raybesto's Professional Grade LBJ's, they told me they have had over 100 orders for those and out of that 100 orders, only 2 have been sent back for warranty due to failure - one was that a boot had cracked, and one was for a bushing issue. The ball component itself had not failed in either case, though I would say that left alone, either of the 2 would have probably resulted in a ball failure eventually.

For the record, while I hear you and others regarding the logic and sensibility of OEM vs. aftermarket, I am not necessarily sold on the argument 100 percent because most of it is based on personal observation or bias vs. actual statistical data showing much higher failure rates with aftermarket LBJ's. I mean really, if I went based on some of the opinions of some people here and in other forums regarding OEM vs. aftermarket, I would expect to be hearing about LBJ's failing on a daily or weekly basis, all over the place, yet, I don't hear or see these stories. I am not discounting anything, one way or the other, I am just saying, has anyone actually done a statistical look at OEM failure rates vs. aftermarket? Say over the last 13-15 yrs, or the life of these 3rd gen runners, which has an obvious design flaw in loading the weight of the suspension directly on the LBJ, making it the weakest point in the structure, and the component most likely to fail?

And out of those failures on either OEM or aftermarket, how many of those occurred on 2WD stock, unchanged or unmodified suspensions, vs. how many occurred on 4WD, modified, and/or lifted suspensions for the 3rd gen?

Thats where I see little evidence from anyone making the argument for OEM over aftermarket - no stats to really back it up.

OEM/Toyota does not offer lifetime replacement of the part for any reason....the job to replace the LBJ is an easy job to do on my rig - 2WD, no mods, so, really, even if I had to do it on an interval of 3-5 yrs knowing my part is going to be replaced for free because it does have a lifetime warranty, then why not do it, if the part performs as well as OEM when working properly?

And finally -regular inspection, whether OEM or aftermarket, should be a part of the overall maintenance of the vehicle, and if problems spotted, you make the change-out....again, if I am doing this with a lifetime warranty and no cost of parts....seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[tenro1]

To all:

I really am only looking to get a question answered about Napa Premium vs. Raybestos LBJ's and whether or not they are the same component sold under different names. So far, the responses I get have no bearing on this question.

I am really not looking to reignite or re-hash the OEM vs. aftermarket LBJ discussion here, so if your desire/mission/whatever is to covince me to go buy OEM - please, don't! It is not the reason I started this thread, and if I decide to go OEM, I'll let you know.

 

[4'running'26]

OP,

Your condescending attitude towards any and all help offered so far is severely limiting the quality responses you can expect to see.

Yours truly.

 

[tenro1]

Actually, I am not trying to be condescending here, and if someone is taking it that way, my apologies for the perception. However, as you can see, with the responses I am getting, none of them are really touching on my reason for starting the thread. I was only trying to keep the focus on my question, and not get into these endless debates over OEM vs. aftermarket.

So, if everyone who does respond wants to argue about OEM, or tell me about a part on a vehicle that has nothing to do with my question, then what is the point of the thread?

 

[BrianSD_42]

For the record, while I hear you and others regarding the logic and sensibility of OEM vs. aftermarket, I am not necessarily sold on the argument 100 percent because most of it is based on personal observation or bias vs. actual statistical data showing much higher failure rates with aftermarket LBJ's. I mean really, if I went based on some of the opinions of some people here and in other forums regarding OEM vs. aftermarket, I would expect to be hearing about LBJ's failing on a daily or weekly basis, all over the place, yet, I don't hear or see these stories.

OP,

I understand why you would think that but if you spent more time on the forum you would see that the only few items people consistently say MUST be Toyota/OEM are:
* spark plug wires
* spark plugs
* Lower Ball Joints

Nothing else raises alarm like those items.


BTW, how would YOU have heard about ball joints failing? Are you a mechanic? Do you spend time on forums from people who own the vehicles?

Because if you were a Toyota mechanic you would know about this issue and surprisingly none of the Toyota techs (I am not one of them) on this forum has picked any battles around this discussion saying we are all wrong about.

AND ... if you do a search for LBJ failure (use the link in my signature because LBJ won't show up otherwise) you would see that the ONLY threads out there about LBJ failure are either:
* Toyota LBJs with 150K miles on them, usually more
* Non-Toyota LBJs with varying miles, some as little as 15K miles.

Sensing a theme here? No-ONE has posted about their Toyota/OEM LBJs failing in anything less than 100K miles.

I understand if funds are tight. The consensus here is if you are going to buy something a little bit extra. ... this is the one time to do it.

I mainly post so that the others reading this know the whole story. I am not trying to bully you into buying OEM. Personally if I had to choose a non-Toyota part I would probably go with the NAPA part.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

I don't think ANYONE on here has used both a set of NAPA and Raybestos LBJ's on their rig. It looks like your question will remain unanswered.

Plenty of people on here have provided a solution to your question and you dismiss them claiming that because it was a different vehicle that it in no way relates to your issue. I believe that by people telling you that such a part has worked for their vehicle is a testament to the quality of the brand NOT saying that it is better for said vehicle. i.e. only use NAPA for VW and Raybestos for Mitsubishi, etc.

Good luck with your search for answers.

 

[tenro1]

To Swimmerboy2112 - I haven't dismissed anyone. I am simply trying to get an answer to the question - are NAPA premium and Raybesto's Professional LBJ's the same part, but sold under different names? Maybe nobody has used them, maybe not. I don't know. And thats fine if that is the end result in regards to this thread. I can get info other places as well, hopefully, to make an informed decision.

To BrianSD-42 - Still waiting on that link to the $70 LBJ's from Camelback, if you still have access - I am looking at the site now and I am showing $85.96 per side from Camelback. Do you think that the local dealership would match their price for me?