Yet another LBJ question....lol

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The OP should check to see if the ball joint recall was ever done on his rig; if not have it done at the dealer:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/problems-warranty-issues/71656-2001-lower-ball-joint-recall.html

As Brian has postulated, I don't think there has been a comparison made between the two aftermarket LBJs, since the price point difference between the two vs. OEM is so small, with most members here knowing, through useage, that the OEM LBJ offers the most durability.
 
@LittleCaeser - I have already confirmed here, and with the dealer, that my rig is not eligible for the recall, so that is not an option.
[MENTION=10950]Brian[/MENTION]SD-42 - I have spent numerous days doing the searches here on the forum, searching on OEM LBJ's, NAPA, and Raybestos. I agree, not alot discussed here regarding the Raybestos.

So, it appears that I won't find the actual answer to my question regarding the engineering of the Raybesto's LBJ. Thanks everyone for their help!
 
[MENTION=10950]Brian[/MENTION]SD-42 -

You should go back and read the 2nd link you just sent me - you are engaged in the same conversation you had with me here, and the OP for that thread mentions to you, or someone in the thread that the LBJ from Napa and Raybesto are indeed one and the same. So - that technically answers my question, and I can end this thread.

What surprised me though, is your response back to him where you seem to say Napa is a reasonable alternative to OEM LBJ's.

Quote:

Thats good to know. My personal reading is a small data point but I have not read about any NAPA premium joints failing.

It is also worth noting that Moog is actually owned by NAPA. They are NAPA's "low end" brand. I was told that by the sales manager for NAPA in San Diego whom I randomly was chatting with at a bar lol.

End Quote:


Priceless.


Paste into Google:
Code:
site:toyota-4Runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/  Raybestos LBJ

To your question about NAPA vs Raybestos I also haven't seen any comparisons.

However you can look at the threads about reybestos LBJs by doing the search above.

There are a few threads that knock them.


Here:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...tos-poor-quality-design-flaw-my-findings.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/151278-unboxing-raybestos-pro-grade-lbjs.html

:)
 
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It is also worth noting that Moog is actually owned by NAPA. They are NAPA's "low end" brand. I was told that by the sales manager for NAPA in San Diego whom I randomly was chatting with at a bar lol.

Yeah but I also went back and said that apparently I was totally wrong and the sales manager didn't know what he was talking about when I quoted him.

It was pointed out to me that Moog is NOT owned by NAPA and is not a NAPA owned line. Moog is 100% Chinese company but is sometimes sold at NAPA so they do have that connection.
 
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and the OP for that thread mentions to you, or someone in the thread that the LBJ from Napa and Raybesto are indeed one and the same.

Yeah but dude just because the OP of that thread, someone who is definitely not an expert (and neither am I) indicates he THINKS they may be the same does not mean anything solid.

What is Raybestos relationship to the NAPA line of LBJ parts? I don't know exactly but would be interested to find out. I don't think the OP of that other thread knew either.
 
......I don't think anyone is going to say napa or raybestos is better....so you should stop asking.....seriously
If you want to take a chance and save 30 or 40 bucks....buy aftermarket, plain and simple. If you want piece of mind....and value your safety and that of your passengers buy genuine.
How else can anyone else say it???
 
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[MENTION=63639]bc toy[/MENTION]:

So you are clear on WHAT I was asking throughout this thread, I never asked which was better, Napa or Raybestos - I asked if they were the same product, just sold under different names. Like you said - How else can anyone say it? Geez....



......I don't think anyone is going to say napa or raybestos is better....so you should stop asking.....seriously
If you want to take a chance and save 30 or 40 bucks....buy aftermarket, plain and simple. If you want piece of mind....and value your safety and that of your passengers buy genuine.
How else can anyone else say it???
 
So you are clear on WHAT I was asking throughout this thread, I never asked which was better, Napa or Raybestos - I asked if they were the same product, just sold under different names


OP,

Your thread is called "yet another LBJ question lol"

Not

"NAPA vs Raybestos LBJs (please don't mention OEM) ahhhhh and are they the same product? ... Lol"


:)
 
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Wrong.

If you read my very first entry to start this thread - that is exactly what I did ask....including not starting the OEM discussion. I repeated it several times throughout the thread, but you and others here decided to ignore it.

The title is appropriate to the thread. This last comment from you just shows clearly you didn't read the opening of this thread, yet decided to interject your feelings about OEM anyway.

OP,

Your thread is called "yet another LBJ question lol"

Not

"NAPA vs Raybestos LBJs (please don't mention OEM) ahhhhh and are they the same product? ... Lol"


:)
 
I have read thru this and i did even respond, but quickly deleted my post due to it not being relevant to what the OP asked.

To answer your question, based solely on my observations, the short answer is MAYBE....

Long answer, and I promise I won't mention that other brand that you aren't asking about :)

The aftermarket is a strange animal and as folks have mentioned before, there are a number of joints that show up in boxes with lots of different names that have the infamous "555" stamp on them. The price and quality of the materials and fit and finish may vary. Anything that is aftermarket generally has been reverse engineered from a OEM part. The fit of the parts typically are similar, because they have to be, but that does not mean that the materials used to construct the part are up to OE standard, the rubber boots for example may be less durable, or the steel used for the ball and stud may be inferior to OE spec, but only slightly.

Also, as with a number of parts in the market, part "X" and part "Y" could be made on the exact same assembly line, but part "X" gets built with higher quality components or may have higher QC standards than part "Y", which is where the added cost comes from.

Specifically speaking to your question, I would suspect that the RB joint that you are speaking of specifically is likely the same joint that is being sold by NAPA under their "Master Ride Chassis" Product line. The NAPA premium that you are speaking of is likely from their "NAPA Chassis Parts" product line, then I also show a "Altrom" Product line that they advertise as the "Sankei 555 Brand" that are $155 which is well above what you should pay for a LBJ IMHO.

Besides all that, when ordering from Rockauto or any online vendor of aftermarket parts, they are mostly all third party vendors and you are going to be at the mercy of whatever someone put in the box that is on the distributor shelf.

In the end you are the one making the final decision and based on what I have observed, there is a good possibility that whatever aftermarket joint you purchase, there is a high possibility that you will get a 555 casting mark on it, but as has been stated a few places, it is just that, a casting mark, and the machining of the balls and sockets, internal tolerances, rubber and grease are all going to be based on the price point of the joint you choose. If you pay more, you should expect more, but if you pay less, you should expect less.

To further validate my point about QC and better components then go to the NAPA website and read the two warranties that come with the two lower priced joints. The Master Ride comes with a 12,000 mile limited warranty and the NAPA Chassis comes with a limited lifetime warranty for "the period of service life recommended by the vehicle or equipment manufacturer".

What that tells me is that they are expecting the Master Ride to go 12,000 miles, but they are not holding their breathes after that. Meaning the NAPA Chassis series is built with tighter tolerances and higher quality components.

So in the end you may get a joint that when placed side by side with any other joint may look exactly the same, down to the casting marks, fit and finish, but to truly know what you have in your hand, you would probably have to destroy the joint so you could examine each component with a micrometer to determine if it is truly an equivalent.

Good Luck in whatever your final decision is.

Also, FWIW, I have only heard of one, maybe 2 documented LBJ failures on 2wd rigs.
 
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[MENTION=91276]mrtucker80[/MENTION] -

I do appreciate your response, and for you to actually take the time to respond to the question as posed.

My son works for the principal supplier for RockAuto, and I have already asked him to check on the validity of what is in the box for the Raybestos LBJ's. Waiting on him to get back to me on that. If they are in fact the same product sold by Napa with the lifetime warranty, then I most likely will go with those, and work out an inspection/maintenance routine for them.

I, like you, am not seeing the 2WD LBJ's failing anywhere near the frequency of the 4WD/modified/lifted vehicles. Some who have interacted here have even said they don't see a problem using the Napa brand because they have no real history of failure while in service.

So, I am still working out this issue, and I do appreciate your input here.

Thanks!



I have read thru this and i did even respond, but quickly deleted my post due to it not being relevant to what the OP asked.

To answer your question, based solely on my observations, the short answer is MAYBE....

Long answer, and I promise I won't mention that other brand that you aren't asking about :)

The aftermarket is a strange animal and as folks have mentioned before, there are a number of joints that show up in boxes with lots of different names that have the infamous "555" stamp on them. The price and quality of the materials and fit and finish may vary. Anything that is aftermarket generally has been reverse engineered from a OEM part. The fit of the parts typically are similar, because they have to be, but that does not mean that the materials used to construct the part are up to OE standard, the rubber boots for example may be less durable, or the steel used for the ball and stud may be inferior to OE spec, but only slightly.

Also, as with a number of parts in the market, part "X" and part "Y" could be made on the exact same assembly line, but part "X" gets built with higher quality components or may have higher QC standards than part "Y", which is where the added cost comes from.

Specifically speaking to your question, I would suspect that the RB joint that you are speaking of specifically is likely the same joint that is being sold by NAPA under their "Master Ride Chassis" Product line. The NAPA premium that you are speaking of is likely from their "NAPA Chassis Parts" product line, then I also show a "Altrom" Product line that they advertise as the "Sankei 555 Brand" that are $155 which is well above what you should pay for a LBJ IMHO.

Besides all that, when ordering from Rockauto or any online vendor of aftermarket parts, they are mostly all third party vendors and you are going to be at the mercy of whatever someone put in the box that is on the distributor shelf.

In the end you are the one making the final decision and based on what I have observed, there is a good possibility that whatever aftermarket joint you purchase, there is a high possibility that you will get a 555 casting mark on it, but as has been stated a few places, it is just that, a casting mark, and the machining of the balls and sockets, internal tolerances, rubber and grease are all going to be based on the price point of the joint you choose. If you pay more, you should expect more, but if you pay less, you should expect less.

To further validate my point about QC and better components then go to the NAPA website and read the two warranties that come with the two lower priced joints. The Master Ride comes with a 12,000 mile limited warranty and the NAPA Chassis comes with a limited lifetime warranty for "the period of service life recommended by the vehicle or equipment manufacturer".

What that tells me is that they are expecting the Master Ride to go 12,000 miles, but they are not holding their breathes after that. Meaning the NAPA Chassis series is built with tighter tolerances and higher quality components.

So in the end you may get a joint that when placed side by side with any other joint may look exactly the same, down to the casting marks, fit and finish, but to truly know what you have in your hand, you would probably have to destroy the joint so you could examine each component with a micrometer to determine if it is truly an equivalent.

Good Luck in whatever your final decision is.

Also, FWIW, I have only heard of one, maybe 2 documented LBJ failures on 2wd rigs.
 

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