You should replace your ball joints...

[fire_walker]

Was made aware that in ball joint failures it is a good idea to replace the steering knuckle as well (the hole where the ball joint fits into), because it is weakened as a result of the failure. And the lower ball joints will continue to fail until this problem is addressed. I was wondering if anyone else has come across this? or has any idea how to replace the steering knuckle, looks like a lengthy process due to the face that the bolts seemed fused to remove it?

To further illustrate my original point and question in regards to steering knuckles. I'm calling out to previous owners of LBJ failures wondering if they were made aware of this issue by a mechanic or any other means. The picture came off the instruction booklet from my new Mooge LBJs. Sounds like my LBJs will continue to fail until I replace the steering knuckle.

 

[SpidermanGeek]

... from my new Moog LBJs.

 

[JZiggy]

If you're worried about the tapered seat where the LBJ stud connects to the lower control arm, I would suggest coating the stud taper with a fine layer of Prussian Blue. Install and torque to spec. Then pop it back out and check if you have a smooth contact pattern or not. Make sure to clean the Prussian Blue off everything before final install.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

[emoji23]
To answer your question, that makes actually zero sense.
That's a generic "special note", and doesn't apply to ours.
Our LBJ bolts to the steering knuckle, so what part are you thinking could get damaged- causing repeated failures?

 

[Co4Fun]

Thanks for all the input. Ya no worries on judgement. I didn't even know about the LBJ issues until after I had bought mine and started cruising forums. It bugs me but I really love the truck so I guess I'll just keep after them and replace prematurely as needed.

I don't know how much to gauge the wear and tear I put on them wheeling. I don't go crazy with my rig, but did just do a pretty good trail (Red Elephant Hill, Empire CO) that flexed me out a lot...wheels off the ground a few times etc. and I did bend a tie rod so enough strain to do that. Mine LBJ's are brand new OEM but still, it's hard to tell how much that stuff is affecting the LBJ's.

One thing my mech passed along was that the LBJ's are actually one reason why he doesn't recommend going to swaybar discos. He said that even though that certainly will give you more travel, that extra travel means more strain on LBJ's (and other components) as well.

Also, has anyone considered putting grease zerks in their OEM LBJ's? There is a threaded hole there with a bolt in it. My mech says that is what it's for but that they don't come with the zerks.

Also also, does anyone consider bringing spare/old LBJ's on the trail? My mech said it's just too rare of a thing and of course we all know the other tools you would need. Just curious if anyone does that.

Finally, as I understand it this issue is NOT limited to 4Runners but spans Taco's from this time period as well. I haven't seen Landcruisers in there (those with IFS) but wonder if they too were affected?

I guess SAS is the only way to fully eliminate this issue I guess? That's not in the cards for me anytime soon though Addicted Offroad is just up the highway so someday maybe...

 

[Loubaru]

So this is a little odd, not sure if anyone else has experienced the same?

My 4runner has always tracked decently straight but the wheel would be about 10º off when driving straight, even after getting it aligned (alignment sheet looked fine). I bought it with ~63k miles on it ~3-4 years ago, it had been in a wreck before so I was assuming the rear axle was a little off/bent. Anyways, replaced the ball joints and outer tie rods last weekend at ~78k (it isn't a DD), got it aligned, and the thing drives perfectly straight now. Because of the low mileage I didn't think the replacement was necessary but also didn't want to get stranded at the top of a mountain.

I'm thinking that there was some looseness in one of the ball joints or something? They appeared to be original. I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen on one of my old Integras 10 years ago where i first used cheap LBJ, the thing never tracked properly, then replaced them with OEM parts a couple years later which fixed it.

 

[animator]

[emoji23]
To answer your question, that makes actually zero sense.
That's a generic "special note", and doesn't apply to ours.
Our LBJ bolts to the steering knuckle, so what part are you thinking could get damaged- causing repeated failures?

Using a MOOG joint vs an OEM joint...

 

[animator]

So this is a little odd, not sure if anyone else has experienced the same?

My 4runner has always tracked decently straight but the wheel would be about 10º off when driving straight, even after getting it aligned (alignment sheet looked fine). I bought it with ~63k miles on it ~3-4 years ago, it had been in a wreck before so I was assuming the rear axle was a little off/bent. Anyways, replaced the ball joints and outer tie rods last weekend at ~78k (it isn't a DD), got it aligned, and the thing drives perfectly straight now. Because of the low mileage I didn't think the replacement was necessary but also didn't want to get stranded at the top of a mountain.

I'm thinking that there was some looseness in one of the ball joints or something? They appeared to be original. I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen on one of my old Integras 10 years ago where i first used cheap LBJ, the thing never tracked properly, then replaced them with OEM parts a couple years later which fixed it.

My wheel is off-centered by just a hair as well. It got better when I had my last alignment.


But just to be clear, there is no practical way to be certain you have excessive LBJ wear without physically jacking up the vehicle, letting the suspension droop with no vehicle weight on it, and visually inspecting the play on the joint by use of an indicator. If you do that and notice .05" movement, it's time to replace the joint. If no movement, the joint is assumed to be safe.

 

[TheDurk]

So this is a little odd, not sure if anyone else has experienced the same?

My 4runner has always tracked decently straight but the wheel would be about 10º off when driving straight, even after getting it aligned (alignment sheet looked fine). I bought it with ~63k miles on it ~3-4 years ago, it had been in a wreck before so I was assuming the rear axle was a little off/bent. Anyways, replaced the ball joints and outer tie rods last weekend at ~78k (it isn't a DD), got it aligned, and the thing drives perfectly straight now. Because of the low mileage I didn't think the replacement was necessary but also didn't want to get stranded at the top of a mountain.

I'm thinking that there was some looseness in one of the ball joints or something? They appeared to be original. I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen on one of my old Integras 10 years ago where i first used cheap LBJ, the thing never tracked properly, then replaced them with OEM parts a couple years later which fixed it.

The alignment sheet won't change with a cock-eyed steering wheel. There is no sensor on the steering wheel. They are just supposed to set it straight. That is just a function of the talent and care of the guy doing the alignment. The sheet would show a canted rear axle.

That said, I replaced my factory upper and lowers when I did my frame swap at 170k, and although all four seemed good, I swear my steering is tighter and the truck drives better with less vibration with new OEM ball joints. I can't prove it, though. I also had new(er) upper and lower control arms.

 

[BunBun]

Nice rear end flex

 

[Johny Octane]

re

So this is a little odd, not sure if anyone else has experienced the same?

My 4runner has always tracked decently straight but the wheel would be about 10º off when driving straight, even after getting it aligned (alignment sheet looked fine). I bought it with ~63k miles on it ~3-4 years ago, it had been in a wreck before so I was assuming the rear axle was a little off/bent. Anyways, replaced the ball joints and outer tie rods last weekend at ~78k (it isn't a DD), got it aligned, and the thing drives perfectly straight now. Because of the low mileage I didn't think the replacement was necessary but also didn't want to get stranded at the top of a mountain.

I'm thinking that there was some looseness in one of the ball joints or something? They appeared to be original. I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen on one of my old Integras 10 years ago where i first used cheap LBJ, the thing never tracked properly, then replaced them with OEM parts a couple years later which fixed it.

A really good friend and ex-coworker of mine hung out at his tire shop and he showed me one of the newer model laser alignment machines they had at the time. Chris showed me how he could line up almost any vehicle within spec even if crucial parts of the steering and suspension were not within spec themselves. Generally result is a "green" alignment sheet (in spec) and a cocked steering wheel is the collateral damage.

On a side note he also demonstrated the same principal on a newer model tire balancer showing how it could indeed balance an egg shaped wheel into "green" (within spec) and obviously it would bounce you out of the seat at certain speeds.

 

[Luckymois]

mine has about 210k miles on it. had it for about a year...I think I will change them just to be safe

 

[BackcountryRunner]

First post over to the forum here. I'm the new owner of a 3rd Gen (01) with 160K. I had to replace an OTRE to pass safety inspection and went ahead and replaced the other side along with the LBJ's after stumbling into all the info on them. Here's to hoping I'll be good to go for another 100K+. This thread and others certainly have me thinking I'll go ahead and keep mine at its stock height rather than do any lifts on it as I had been considering for the future.

 

[Tiktiki]

Well, gotta keep that thread on top (and rack up the post counts).

Just pulled the trigger on a set of OEM LBJs.

I feel like the steering wheel jumps when hitting bumps on the highway.
Also checked the play quickly last week-end and it's MASSIVE!!!

I am expecting the parts end of next week, I guess I will just park it until then.

And there I was thinking my damn rotten frame was the most dangerous thing on the truck!

 

[sctrsk]

Just a passing note:

Im in Conakry (West Africa) for work and on the way in yesterday I saw a land cruiser prado with the front drivers side wheel folded under the truck. How much you want to bet they are built off the 4runner front suspension?

Not surprising really given how technical stuff is handled here...

 

[tcbaklash]

Hey guys I just bought a 2000 ‘Runner on the cheap and it has been abused. I am planning on doing the LBJs and coilovers at the same time but I’d like to know what else I should replace while I’m under there.

 

[jb10]

Hey guys I just bought a 2000 ‘Runner on the cheap and it has been abused. I am planning on doing the LBJs and coilovers at the same time but I’d like to know what else I should replace while I’m under there.

when i did mine i did inner and outer tie rods. lbjs. installed the lift. and did the rack bushings. bought the bushings for the sway bar but once i got under it i decided to remove it. a few months later i replaced the ucas with spc. after that its pretty much a new front end. the rack itself is just about the only thing left

 

[Dale Bob]

OK gang I bought some lower BJ's and just went out to loosen the bolts that hold them in. I knew right away I was in trouble. The first went went mush and snapped off. Anyone been down this road. I was going to try and hit them with a little heat but the axle boot is so close I will probably damage it. This is going to be a long slow sucky job if I have to drill them all out.

 

[octanejunkie]

OK gang I bought some lower BJ's and just went out to loosen the bolts that hold them in. I knew right away I was in trouble. The first went went mush and snapped off. Anyone been down this road. I was going to try and hit them with a little heat but the axle boot is so close I will probably damage it. This is going to be a long slow sucky job if I have to drill them all out.

Hit them with penetrating oil from the top and use a little heat on the spindle to gently coax them off rather than jarring them loose or snapping more off.

Hopefully you don't have to drill any out and once the LBJ comes off you can get a monkey wrench on the snapped one and turn it out

 

[sakoluvr]

I sprayed all the bolts with pb blaster and transmission fluid mixed with acetone for a few days before starting. Get the other 3 bolts off and you may be able to grab the broken bolt with vise grips or a stud puller. I also used a cordless impact wrench.