2014 Warthog
New member
They'd also have to leave most of Europe, which might be a problem for a European car company... They are being investigated there too. I suppose they can sell to the southern hemisphere...
Your VW TDI might be a criminal
- Thread starter BrianSD_42
- Start date
They'd also have to leave most of Europe, which might be a problem for a European car company... They are being investigated there too. I suppose they can sell to the southern hemisphere...
1engineer
Moderator
Ha! The article I read said it was some advocacy group or institution (can't remember the name) that borrowed test equipment from West Virginia University to independently test vehicles. Basically they were going to prove how well the TDI diesel model was! Yes, that right, they were looking to help the diesel industry! When they started to test tailpipe emissions they found discrepancies between the "published" EPA tests and what they were finding. Apparently the EPA tests differently than what this group was doing.
Edit: Found the quote:
"Bloomberg has a good recap of how this went down: A relatively small clean-air NGO, the International Council on Clean Transportation, noticed discrepancies between tests of diesel Volkswagens in Europe, so last year they borrowed equipment from West Virginia University to test the cars’ actual emissions in real-world driving in the U.S.
Rather than trying to cast doubts on Volkswagen, they’d hoped to prove that small diesels like the cars VW made could run cleanly. As they told Bloomberg:
“We had no cause for suspicion,” German, U.S. co-lead of the International Council on Clean Transportation, said in an interview. “We thought the vehicles would be clean.”
While the VWs passed the lab tests performed by the California Air Resources Board, they failed the real-world tests, which measured tailpipe emissions.
Bloomberg reports VW engineers struggled to explain these results to the EPA and CARB after an investigation began. Regulators weren’t satisfied with that explanation, so they threatened to withhold certifications and effectively halt sales.
Only then did VW concede the cars had a cheat device. The EPA didn’t know about this before because they depend on automakers to self-certify their cars.
What was this about a recall last year?
During the course of the EPA and CARB investigations, VW agreed to a voluntary recall of nearly 500,000 TDI cars last December to implement a software patch they claimed would fix the issue. CARB reports that while this patch did reduce emissions somewhat, nitrogen oxides were still “significantly higher than expected.” Which brings us to our next point...
What pollutants are we talking about?
Specifically, nitrogen oxides, or NOx. They contribute to smog, particulate matter and a wide range of health problems for certain people, which is why they’re so heavily regulated in emissions. Via the EPA:
NOx pollution contributes to nitrogen dioxide, ground-level ozone, and fine particulate matter. Exposure to these pollutants has been linked with a range of serious health effects, including increased asthma attacks and other respiratory illnesses that can be serious enough to send people to the hospital. Exposure to ozone and particulate matter have also been associated with premature death due to respiratory-related or cardiovascular-related effects. Children, the elderly, and people with pre-existing respiratory disease are particularly at risk for health effects of these pollutants.
I thought these were good cars, what happened?
They are good cars, actually. The TDI cars have long been gems in the VW and Audi lineups. They provide good power, great fuel economy and loads of torque that happen to make them pretty fun to drive. I was thoroughly impressed by the 2015 Golf SportWagen TDI I tested earlier this year.
They’re just not as clean as they were billed, and now they represent a bunch of huge, costly headaches for VW. Also, you can’t even buy one right now, so whether it’s good in other ways doesn’t really matter."
LittleCaesar
New member
$7 billion is not chump change, though if people are aghast at that number how about the $10 billion GM got from the US tax payers and didn't pay back?
I do wonder how much this negative mark against them will hurt sales overall, not only for VW but German manufactures in general.
VWs are decent cars but their replacement part costs are on par with BMW and Mercedes, and IMHO such prices doesn't warrant such for the product received.
I do wonder how much this negative mark against them will hurt sales overall, not only for VW but German manufactures in general.
VWs are decent cars but their replacement part costs are on par with BMW and Mercedes, and IMHO such prices doesn't warrant such for the product received.
1engineer
Moderator
...and S. Korea, Australia and pretty much everywhere else is getting on the US bandwagon lol.
IanB
New member
The article posted above says they can continue to sell the affected cars while they come up with a plan to resolve this. Maybe a PR move to halt sales?
They've got a stop-ship on all TDI models. Apparently there are a bunch of 2016s sitting in ports that were pending EPA/CARB certification - they couldn't deliver to dealers. It looks like they'll be sitting there for a while.
Sucks to be an owner of one of these cars - their resale value will tank once the ECU firmware is updated to fix the problem and their mileage and performance go to crap. Lawyers will make a ton of $$ through class action lawsuits and perhaps owners will get their $1.75 check in 2019 as part of the settlement.
I think the Great Diesel Comeback isn't going to happen. If I were in the market for a greenie/efficient type car I'd be looking at a 2016 Volt.
Sucks to be an owner of one of these cars - their resale value will tank once the ECU firmware is updated to fix the problem and their mileage and performance go to crap. Lawyers will make a ton of $$ through class action lawsuits and perhaps owners will get their $1.75 check in 2019 as part of the settlement.
I think the Great Diesel Comeback isn't going to happen. If I were in the market for a greenie/efficient type car I'd be looking at a 2016 Volt.
nevada
Senior Member
this.
how can the corrected emissions end up using MORE fuel?
that doesn't make any sense.
also, wouldn't using more fuel in and of itself be more harmful to the environment? given the big picture of acquiring and refining the stuff?
"November 3, 2014 – Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia agree to pay a $100 million fine for overstating the fuel economy on several of their models by as much as six miles per gallon. In announcing the fine, government officials sought to make an example of the two companies to deter further cheating."
How the Volkswagen cheating probe developed
Regardless of whats being reported we have 1 2016 A3 TDI that has a stop sale on that we legally can't sell
97t4r81
New member
This seems to be the corp business model this century. Im super serious about an electric gen3 runner. I have a near complete chassis if anyone has time/knowledge to lend. The internal combustion engine is on its way to the museum. Tesla will be the wife's new car. I still like those diesel motors though. I had an 81' merc 240d that averaged 30+ mpg in town w/ over 300k on the rig. I feel the foot of profiteers of my neck?
BrianSD_42
New member
Great comment.
.
1engineer
Moderator
It requires energy to run the emissions equipment fitted to our vehicles.
Rules are different for refineries.
It makes sense but in a very convoluted way. You can thank CARB for all the rules.
I want clean air as much as the next guy but there comes a time when the law of diminishing returns and common sense should take effect.
Cobalt Anubis
New member
I previously owned two VW Jettas. Why two? Because it takes two to keep one running. Once they exceed 30K miles, sell it ASAP!
T4R2014
Elite Member
Were any of them diesels? The rest of them are chick cars that aren't worth a sh!t. You need to have dat diesel.
Cobalt Anubis
New member
I didnt have a diesel during those college years. I did however have multiple VW recalls and I had to replace the transmission, wheel bearings, rotors, heater coil, heater, etc... I had to call the VW USA headquaters because the dealer initally tried to refuse to honor the recall. One of the recall fixes failed and I had to return to have it redone. When they tried to charge me, I called VW USA again and let the dealer speak to their headquaters directly. Only then was the fix corrected for free. That is the idea behind a recall after all.
VW = Virtual Wreck
VW = Virtual Wreck
BlackWorksInc
New member
Good luck wit that...
I would recommend leasing the Tesla for now though, they have quite a few issues even from the factory. The saving grace being that Tesla is very good about taking care of their customers, but I have been hearing it does drop the resale value (plus with their vehicle you're better off treating it as a commodity that will be obsolete in a couple years rather than a vehicle, because of how they are designed.)
Not saying that Tesla is bad, I drove one and found the experience amazingly fun. It's just I have spoken with a lot of people who work for Tesla and the technology they are running in the cars is on the bleeding edge so it's bound to have quirks. :tea:
I'll be honest if I had use for a 100k AWD E-Vehicle I wouldn't mind picking one up.
LittleCaesar
New member
My friend told me over lunch that Fiat is possibly going to try and buy out VW, then streamline the manufacturing process, thus cutting manufacturing jobs. That should go over real well with the Germans.
I miss driving my brother's 1987 16v Scirocco though. Fun car. Not made like that anymore. For the most part now nothing but junk.
I miss driving my brother's 1987 16v Scirocco though. Fun car. Not made like that anymore. For the most part now nothing but junk.
IanB
New member
You mean the Mexicans?:laugh:
