T4R is NOT an OFF Road Vehicle!

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lexusnut

lexusnut

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I want TOYOTA To read this!
I have owned and loved my 2003 4Runner since 2004. I purchased other guys lease, I got a car for good deal.
I added many OEM things to it so it is very close to limited, well anyway, this year's winter was brutal in Wisconsin, lots of cold, lots of bad snow. Snow that falls when it is -25F outside.
I have a 1992 Previa AllTrack and it was left in the snow. I needed the car, so i thought i'd get it out. After a little back and forth it came out. Then I thought I want to try my 4Runner... Well it got stuck. STUCK! in the snow Previa had no trouble getting out of. I did wiggle myself out eventually, but with much more difficulty. Then I slid off the road into a snow bank. NO WAY my T4R came out. I had to be pulled out. 2 Disappointments! I then watches youtube and saw that 4Runner sucks in mud too! Well I still love my car, but what happened next was unprecedented, and this is why I want to cry here on the forum that I like so much.
So, I thought even though my T4R is a girl I still like the design, so I'll invest into rebuilding little things like: Change the leather on my seats, Wash all carpeting and clean all that needs to be cleaned, renew basically.
I took the inside out and power-washed the body, no big deal RIGHT? After all IT's An OFF Roader... BIG MISTAKE!
I left car to dry and after a couple of days it would not start. I could not believe it! I thought it was ok for water to enter the cabin on occasion.
Well Toyota engineers decided to place a very important wire connector on the LOWEST point in the cabin low on the left side next to left foot's heel, with no protection of any kind. So, salt and water did its job by frying my ECU completely. I fixed all damaged wires and I ordered a replacement ECU. Well, now I can't do anything because it will not recognize the keys! I took my baby to Toyota dealer for reflashing. Hopefully it will run soon. This is NOT what I expected, especially from Toyota!
Comments welcome. Did anyone else experience anything similar?
 
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Sounds like you need a locker. My runner gets me in and out of everything a point it towards just about.
What kind of tires are you running? Did you air down at all?
 
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92-SR5 said:
Sounds like you need a locker. My runner gets me in and out of everything a point it towards just about.
What kind of tires are you running? Did you air down at all?
Click to expand...

I had a 92 and yes it was a better vehicle! Tires are all season, but I have same exact tires on GX470 and it did much better in same conditions. Maybe its heavier.
 
I know, it sounds bad, but I did this to many vehicles, including my 92 and 95 Previas. There wasn't a lot of water. I'll post pics later. I was at the Junk Yard checking out other cars and NONE had any connectors located this low. NONE! even cheap small sedans.
 
cbdXMCA.gif
 
I have never seen someone powerwash the interior of a modern vehicle... that's just asking for trouble, hell even an old vehicle! This isn't a Utility, Cab, LEO, ect. Its not built to be washed out like that. Granted the 4Runner put some connectors pretty low for some reason, but the Land Cruisers have junction boxes pretty low as do other vehicles; it wasn't the best idea... but then again most Toyota engineers and common people don't expect to be purposefully flooding your vehicle...

The snow deal is hit or miss, if you have 4WD you need to sometimes take it into 4LO/CDL to disengage the throttle cut from the VSC. This is more a function of it being a modern OBDII vehicle more than anything. That being said I haven't had issues in the snow, except when my 33" Nitto Terra Grapplers loaded up in some deep snow and I dug myself in pretty deep. The factory tires are very poor for anything but mild snow, the same goes for mud; even my Terra Grapplers become useless in mud after a while.

But I have pulled 2 4Runners at the same time in the snow with my 4Runner, so it can handle snow.

Nice that your Previa made it out of the snow? I never really liked them... kinda thought I blew up all of them during Cash for Clunkers to be honest...

Bottom line the 4Runner is a very capable 4WD vehicle, but it has a learning curve starting with the 4th gen up since Toyota moved to a more electronically controlled system which acts differently than a standard locker or older 4WD vehicle. Not to mention Snow and Mud are two very tricky conditions that even mildly built 4Runners can have issues in because they tend to have their unique ways of being over come (look at Polar Expedition vehicles vs. Off-Road Warriors and Mud-Trains, they all have different build styles because the terrain requires different approaches.)
 
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lexusnut said:
IWell it got stuck. STUCK! in the snow Previa had no trouble getting out of
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were running low on power.

Next time you change your oil out, rinse out the inside of the engine with a 50/50 mix of water and dishwashing detergent. It'll clean out the horsepower robbing carbon and allow you to gain traction again.
 
lexusnut said:
I took the inside out and power-washed the body, no big deal RIGHT? After all IT's An OFF Roader... BIG MISTAKE!
I left car to dry and after a couple of days it would not start. I could not believe it! I thought it was ok for water to enter the cabin on occasion.
Click to expand...

This comes down to RTM. The owners manual covers the fact that there is a max water depth you can cross, so it doesn't enter the cabin. The doors have dual seals to keep water out. What SUV with electric seats, power windows and other goodies would you want to pressure wash inside?

I drive my 4runner @ -45F in snow, sleet and ice and have pulled out several vehicles. (1/2 ton, minivan, large Jag)

If you are having troubles I'd suggest finding another unit or live with life long pains of H2O + electronics in your current truck. I mean who knows what you did to the 5 or so body computers inside the cabin.

Unbelievable...
 
My point is this: I WAS CAREFUL NOT TO GET WATER INTO ELECTRONICS!

4gen 4Runner is like a beautiful girl :girl: ( Gymnast )
WS6022-2-200x200.jpg

1. I love the design. I think its the BEST slender body ever.
2. I still love my car. I didn't want to damage it.
BUT...
1. Placing an IMPORTANT connectors too low is BAD!
2. Placing gold plated low 5v voltage computer data wire next to HI AMP (+12v) wire for rear equipment support is just DUMB! it could have caught fire.

Please understand that here in Wisconsin they put SALT on the roads so we don't kill each other. Salt = BAD for cars.
SALT + WATER = VERY GOOD CONDUCTOR
My ECU got fried because of a mistake by Toyota engineers.
I absolutely refuse to agree that an off-road vehicle should be afraid of 1 inch of water on the inside. We had rain here, and I left my windows open in the Previa (it is is what i drive now) and i got lots of rain in LOTS!. But the design is such that all water runs to the lowest point, away from an ECU which is located under drivers seat (also bad location water-wise). It didn't fry. I opened door and all water ran out. If this was my 4runner it would have fried! without me washing it. Because of the rain and salt would have added 1 inch of water necessary for total disaster.

BTW This is the video that got me thinking I can have water inside: http://youtu.be/Cr_ZiWBDA2E This video also disappointed me because Pathfinder was able to negotiate the mud better than 4runner.
 
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Your previa probably got out of the snow better than the 4r because of its mid engine providing better weight distribution in the slippery snow. Kind of makes sense. Trying to compare the two for real off roaring purposes could be fun but I wouldn't do it, although I've owned and off roaded both.... Well not a 4th gen.

Here it comes...

Shoulda bought a 1st gen!

I wouldn't pressure wash mine but you could probably get away with that too :noidea:
 
lexusnut said:
My point is this: I WAS CAREFUL NOT TO GET WATER INTO ELECTRONICS!

4gen 4Runner is like a beautiful girl :girl: ( Gymnast )
WS6022-2-200x200.jpg

1. I love the design. I think its the BEST slender body ever.
2. I still love my car. I didn't want to damage it.
BUT...
1. Placing an IMPORTANT connectors too low is BAD!
2. Placing gold plated low 5v voltage computer data wire next to HI AMP (+12v) wire for rear equipment support is just DUMB! it could have caught fire.

Please understand that here in Wisconsin they put SALT on the roads so we don't kill each other. Salt = BAD for cars.
SALT + WATER = VERY GOOD CONDUCTOR
My ECU got fried because of a mistake by Toyota engineers.
I absolutely refuse to agree that an off-road vehicle should be afraid of 1 inch of water on the inside. We had rain here, and I left my windows open in the Previa (it is is what i drive now) and i got lots of rain in LOTS!. But the design is such that all water runs to the lowest point, away from an ECU which is located under drivers seat (also bad location water-wise). It didn't fry. I opened door and all water ran out. If this was my 4runner it would have fried! without me washing it. Because of the rain and salt would have added 1 inch of water necessary for total disaster.

BTW This is the video that got me thinking I can have water inside: Nissan Pathfinder vs Toyota 4Runner mudding - YouTube This video also disappointed me because Pathfinder was able to negotiate the mud better than 4runner.
Click to expand...

...So you're upset because Toyota didn't consider that owners would leave their windows down in the middle of a rain storm (why would your rain have that much salt in it, also why would road salt be getting INTO the cab?) Look I don't agree with how the wiring was routed, but under normal operating conditions it shouldn't ever be an issue (nor is it that uncommon, my '82 RX7 has its ECM in the passenger footwell as did many cars before and after it), if you've gotten water into the cab; you're gonna have more issues than shorted wires. Not many consumer level 4WD vehicles are meant for that much water, unsealed bearings, low breather tubes, ect. Not to mention the mold and mildew that's going to set into the carpeting now...

I didn't have an issue pulling a 2nd & 3rd Gen (after they dug themselves in and couldn't get out) daisy chained in loose snow in my 4WD 4Runner at the same time, its about traction and utilizing the vehicle properly (i.e. understanding the 4th & 5th gens need some manipulation to over come the electronic nannies sometimes); good tires make a world of difference also. I also was able to brute strength my way up a 30 degree hill that was flowing mud with loaded up Terra Grapplers, it took some work and I had to play with the vehicle's 4WD settings, but it handled it pretty damn good for not having dedicated MTs.

Touching up on that wiring deal again, why not just seal the connectors yourself? Shrink wrap, liquid tape, ect. There are ways to water proof that stuff if you really want, the reality is that even if the connectors were high up; you could still see wicking of the water into the harness since they run tons of wires on the floorpan in all vehicles. I've seen water wick from a coolant sensor in a BMW, through the harness and fill up a ECM with blue liquid; I've also seen standing water wick into weird places from capillary action.
 
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lexusnut said:
Please understand that here in Wisconsin they put SALT on the roads so we don't kill each other. Salt = BAD for cars.
SALT + WATER = VERY GOOD CONDUCTOR
Click to expand...

I think the person who doesn't understand appears to be you. I live in a place called northern Alberta. It's colder then hell. In Winnipeg (several hundred miles south of us) their water pipes 8ft underground are still frozen in June. We know salt and winter.

We also know you shouldn't pressure wash your engine, let alone your interior. The engine by all accounts can take a bath of water at low pressure (driving through water). When you pressure wash you can drive water past seals and gaskets. If you need to vent fine. If you want to spew non-sense find somewhere else. Coming on this forum and saying that the T4R isn't for offroading is just plain stupid. Move on.
 
All of this is clearly user error. I imagine you have a lot of things like this in your life from the choices you seem to make. So what's your next problem?




lexusnut said:
I want TOYOTA To read this!
I have owned and loved my 2003 4Runner since 2004. I purchased other guys lease, I got a car for good deal.
I added many OEM things to it so it is very close to limited, well anyway, this year's winter was brutal in Wisconsin, lots of cold, lots of bad snow. Snow that falls when it is -25F outside.
I have a 1992 Previa AllTrack and it was left in the snow. I needed the car, so i thought i'd get it out. After a little back and forth it came out. Then I thought I want to try my 4Runner... Well it got stuck. STUCK! in the snow Previa had no trouble getting out of. I did wiggle myself out eventually, but with much more difficulty. Then I slid off the road into a snow bank. NO WAY my T4R came out. I had to be pulled out. 2 Disappointments! I then watches youtube and saw that 4Runner sucks in mud too! Well I still love my car, but what happened next was unprecedented, and this is why I want to cry here on the forum that I like so much.
So, I thought even though my T4R is a girl I still like the design, so I'll invest into rebuilding little things like: Change the leather on my seats, Wash all carpeting and clean all that needs to be cleaned, renew basically.
I took the inside out and power-washed the body, no big deal RIGHT? After all IT's An OFF Roader... BIG MISTAKE!
I left car to dry and after a couple of days it would not start. I could not believe it! I thought it was ok for water to enter the cabin on occasion.
Well Toyota engineers decided to place a very important wire connector on the LOWEST point in the cabin low on the left side next to left foot's heel, with no protection of any kind. So, salt and water did its job by frying my ECU completely. I fixed all damaged wires and I ordered a replacement ECU. Well, now I can't do anything because it will not recognize the keys! I took my baby to Toyota dealer for reflashing. Hopefully it will run soon. This is NOT what I expected, especially from Toyota!
Comments welcome. Did anyone else experience anything similar?
Click to expand...
 
Not only did you pressure wash the inside out, but it sounds like you didn't even disconnect the battery to begin with.
 
This has got to be a huge JOKE!! I mean for real here, pressure washed WHAT??!!!! :rain: Crazy man. With that hideous mistake aside, you need to find some better tires. I drove mine all winter, stock, through the worst Northern Michigan, UNPLOWED winter roads, pushing snow with the bumper at times, and NEVER had an issue. You can see the tires in my signature. So, get some better tires, and if the traction control is shutting you down then you either need to learn how to drive with it, or turn it off while in deep snow.
Sorry if this is offensive, but I find almost everything you said highly ridiculous and a complete WTF man! :ybrick: :ybrick: :ybrick:
 
Didn't know Toyota engineers were supposed to design the 4th Gen T4R with complete wash down capabilities like a 1940's Willys Jeep. Shame on you Toyota !!
 
I want Toyota to read this too ....... it's a funny read. Powerwashed the inside of the car ???? WTF!! The only thing stranger than this was the guy who poured the NOS energy drink into his gas tank.
 
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