Tow in CO? Need help settling on trailer GVWR!

Believe me, I’ve searched, found, and read every thread possible to try and glean the info I need! There’s so much confounding information about towing on the forums, from people towing max 5000 lbs at 10k just fine, to people who think the 5th Gen sucks at sea level with 3000 lbs.

I think I now need specific towing experiences/suggestions from 5th Gen owners who live in Colorado and routinely tow in the mountains. I know I didn’t buy the 4Runner as a tow vehicle (who would?), but it’s what I have, and I knew I’d have to make-do with the limited towing I’ll do.

Here’s my dilemma:

My wife and I are trying to settle on an Ultralight Travel Trailer (KZ SC 151RB, Lance 1475, R-Pod RP-180, etc.), with some pretty specific limitations:

1. ‘we’ (cough!) want a dry bathroom (i.e. no showering/shitting at the same time);
   
2. we’d like an actual queen bed (i.e. no Murphy or build-a-bed);
   
3. we’d prefer it to sleep 3-4, but 2 may have to work (kids are nearly out to college, anyway); and
   
4. it must be hard-sided, obviously (and no A-frames).

The more we look at trailers and the more I read people’s experiences, the more I convince myself that I need to keep the weight as low as possible. Right now, the trailers that barely satisfy our minimum requirements have dry weights around 2500-2700 lbs, giving actual weights (on the lot, with options) of 2700-2950# lbs., with GVWR in the 3500-3800# range. I’ve estimated that our likely loading will result in total trailer weights around 3400-3700#. The truck is likely to be loaded to about 5850#, giving a combined of 9500#+ (which leaves an available vehicle payload of ~500 lbs. remaining). The heaviest of the five trailers currently in the running is estimated to be 3675# loaded, almost exactly 75% of the 4Runner’s 4900# tow rating. Vehicle is a '16 TRD Trail w/KDSS, stock size Cooper AT3 Load C.

It will be used maybe 1-2x/month mostly in CO, WY, UT, and NM, with occasional longer trips, always hauling two mountain bikes on a hitch-mount. I have no interest being limited to driving 30mph up Floyd Hill, I'd at least like to be in the ballpark.

Since you can’t load up a trailer and go test drive it, I guess at this point I need to rely on the expertise of people who live in similar environments that tow with their 5th Gen 4Runner. I’m trying to figure out if pulling ~3500 lbs. will be a mistake, living here in CO. I’d be willing to install airbags, a transmission cooler and W/D hitch if necessary (as well as brakes/controller), but I’m a towing noob, and don’t really know what makes the most sense. Heck, I still cannot decipher from the forums whether a W/D hitch should even be used, or is needed with out trucks!

In a perfect world I’d love to hear information relating to how much weight can be *reasonably* pulled in the Front Range environment, where virtually anywhere I want to go entails crossing at least one mountain pass of 10,000 feet, if not several, as well as any of the above-mentioned options you’d consider useless or priceless.

Lastly, thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide. I have a chance to try and get this right the first time, and since there’s no turning back on vehicle choice now, I need to get the trailer that will work for the truck and the environment I’m in.

Cheers!

PS: I included a screenshot of my homework.

I built RV's for a few years for Coachmen. I've owned RV's for the last 25 years as well.


I will say this about the industry. The weight stickers are not accurate. They usually list the weight before any options are added. Some are better than others but I'm talking options like your bed, fridge, etc that all RV's come with.

My camper has a listed weight of 2200 lbs. I hit the scales with propane, half a tank of water and supplies for two days. It was 3500 pounds.


So find a dealer that will let you scale it. Addd up your junk (this will shock you) and see if you want to do that. The good rule of thumb is 75% of your max. Also, don't forget your load in the truck itself.

Now I'm not the weight police as I'm far over my sticker weight on my Ram....but the Runner is not ideal to pull a hard side TT in mountains. You will not feel too comfortable unless you spend a lot on mods and accept that it will be a tail wagging the dog situation and it is ALWAYS how can I stop this/control this...not pull.

I've pulled an enclosed trailer that was well above the 5k tow rating over I70, and pulled it several times when it was near 5k over most of the higher paved passes.

It will get the job done, but when you are headed up to Eisenhower at 53mph in 2nd gear at 4500rpm, you will wish you were driving something with more torque.

It will tow 5K. It won't be pretty. I pull 5K several times a year. If i had to pull it more, I would get a Tundra.

1engineer said:

It will tow 5K. It won't be pretty. I pull 5K several times a year. If i had to pull it more, I would get a Tundra.

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But have you done this in the Western states and farther than the dump?

It's one thing to tow 5k down a straight road...it's a experience towing up the Eisenhower (or better yet down) with 5k. :jaw:

Vinsil said:

But have you done this in the Western states and farther than the dump?

It's one thing to tow 5k down a straight road...it's a experience towing up the Eisenhower (or better yet down) with 5k. :jaw:

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I have. Again it's not pretty but it will do it. Most of my towing has been here in the eastern mountains but I have been out west a time other two.
The 4Runner is a good tow vehicle for a 3K load. Perfect in fact. Again I would buy a Tundra if I were going to tow more often.

Maybe rent a camper or two first to see how well it tows?

As others have suggested, it will physically tow it. It will not be the fastest thing out there, your gas mileage will suck, but it really isn't bad. I've towed over 5k lbs with a car hauler. A camper is going to have worse aerodynamics with is also going to come into play. As you'd already mentioned the airbags and the trans cooler (both of which I'd done as well before I towed), might also want to consider stiffer (thicker sidewall) tires to deal with the flexing.

As long as you can deal with wringing out the 4.0l and taking some initiative with the transmission (and watching temps), you'll be fine. Trucks from the past were rated to tow more with less power than we have... People seem to think you need a diesel or full size truck with a V8 to tow about anything. Sure they may do better, but that doesn't mean the 4R doesn't do just fine.

The 5th gens are pretty well equipped stock for towing, the 5k rating is pretty much just dependent on the hitch itself. 4th gen V8s had a different mounted hitch (which someone on here mounted up to a 5th gen, no problem. They have the same frame), but share the same transmission, all 5th gens have the larger brakes (13.3" vs 12.6" fronts), and we essentially have the optional Tacoma tow package (engine oil cooler, larger alternator, full wiring, etc) except for the aux trans cooler and frame mounted hitch. We even have larger brakes than the tacomas. The Tacoma is rates for 6300lbs? towing, and the V8 4Rs were rated for 7000lbs towing.

I have a 1500 lb pop up and I drive through the hill country in Texas and after every trip I seriously consider driving to the dealership and buying a tundra. It pulls it, but it's not the most fun to drive up and down hills long distance.

Vinsil said:

My camper has a listed weight of 2200 lbs. I hit the scales with propane, half a tank of water and supplies for two days. It was 3500 pounds.


So find a dealer that will let you scale it. Addd up your junk (this will shock you) and see if you want to do that. The good rule of thumb is 75% of your max. Also, don't forget your load in the truck itself.

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That sounds about right with my calculations; 2500 manufacturer listed dry weight, 2900 weighed after manufacture (w/options), bringing it up to 3700 loaded. Considering the 'actual' weight with options was 400# higher than dry weight (without options), I'd certainly hope that the 2900 isn't higher.

Thanks for the suggestion to confirm actual weight, not a bad idea.

Jeremy556 said:

I've pulled an enclosed trailer that was well above the 5k tow rating over I70, and pulled it several times when it was near 5k over most of the higher paved passes.

It will get the job done, but when you are headed up to Eisenhower at 53mph in 2nd gear at 4500rpm, you will wish you were driving something with more torque.

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2nd gear at 53 mph sounds bogus. I'm hoping that 3500-3700# can keep me in 3rd gear most of the time... lol

That's really the crux of the question for me: for occasional travel trailer towing here in CO, at what weight does the 5th Gen become a reasonable platform?

I realize that there are lots of factors that affect the 'answer' (term used loosely), not the least of which is the subjectivity of what any individual feels works or not.

1engineer said:

I have. Again it's not pretty but it will do it. Most of my towing has been here in the eastern mountains but I have been out west a time other two.
The 4Runner is a good tow vehicle for a 3K load. Perfect in fact. Again I would buy a Tundra if I were going to tow more often.

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Me too; if I had a 5-car tandem garage I'd consider it (jk); the Tundra won't even physically fit in our garage, length-wise. My wife only drives 3 miles to work, so it could be her daily driver? (lol, no really, not going there)

I wish I could get the loaded trailer weight down to 3000#, but there just isn't anything out there that fits our needs (my Social Director has gotta have a 'real' shower).

I know this isn't apples to apples, but I pull a 5000 lb. TT (4000 empty with a max of 6000) with a 4th gen and a V8. As I approach the Eisenhower tunnel I'm working to keep speed at 55. I'm struggling to maintain 50 going up eastbound Vail Pass. However, it can do it and it does just fine. That said, braking is your real issue. Another poster mentioned the tail wagging the dog: this is true. However, make sure you have trailer brakes and a good brake controller adjusted properly and you will be just fine. I had a 2500 lb. PUP and I could barely tell the thing was back there, but I also ran trailer brakes!

Braking will be your biggest concern. It will pull, although slowly, what you are looking at purchasing. Have fun out there, and enjoy our Colorado outdoors

(none) said:

Maybe rent a camper or two first to see how well it tows?

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Not a bad idea, although something tells me daily rental rates on a camper would be a significant portion of the purchase price. I'll look into that though; I couldn't believe the rates when we looked into renting a Sportsmobile-like camper.

As others have suggested, it will physically tow it. It will not be the fastest thing out there, your gas mileage will suck, but it really isn't bad. I've towed over 5k lbs with a car hauler. A camper is going to have worse aerodynamics with is also going to come into play. As you'd already mentioned the airbags and the trans cooler (both of which I'd done as well before I towed), might also want to consider stiffer (thicker sidewall) tires to deal with the flexing.

Click to expand...

Have stock size Cooper AT3, Load C.

As long as you can deal with wringing out the 4.0l and taking some initiative with the transmission (and watching temps), you'll be fine. Trucks from the past were rated to tow more with less power than we have... People seem to think you need a diesel or full size truck with a V8 to tow about anything. Sure they may do better, but that doesn't mean the 4R doesn't do just fine.

The 5th gens are pretty well equipped stock for towing, the 5k rating is pretty much just dependent on the hitch itself. 4th gen V8s had a different mounted hitch (which someone on here mounted up to a 5th gen, no problem. They have the same frame), but share the same transmission, all 5th gens have the larger brakes (13.3" vs 12.6" fronts), and we essentially have the optional Tacoma tow package (engine oil cooler, larger alternator, full wiring, etc) except for the aux trans cooler and frame mounted hitch. We even have larger brakes than the tacomas. The Tacoma is rates for 6300lbs? towing, and the V8 4Rs were rated for 7000lbs towing.

Click to expand...

Read the 4th Gen hitch thread, my question about the hitch is would it matter towing 3500#? I wonder if the hitch that guy installed is effectively the same as the 'tow package' hitch they currently install in the GX460?

Read the 4th Gen hitch thread, my question about the hitch is would it matter towing 3500#? I wonder if the hitch that guy installed is effectively the same as the 'tow package' hitch they currently install in the GX460?

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No, it won't matter.

b407driver said:

Me too; if I had a 5-car tandem garage I'd consider it (jk); the Tundra won't even physically fit in our garage, length-wise. My wife only drives 3 miles to work, so it could be her daily driver? (lol, no really, not going there)

I wish I could get the loaded trailer weight down to 3000#, but there just isn't anything out there that fits our needs (my Social Director has gotta have a 'real' shower).

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The 4Runner is a perfect tow vehicle - If you are towing 3K. When I pulled 2500 lbs down to Florida last year it was perfect. When I pulled 4700 lbs from SC to WV it did it, but it was not really happy. I only tow sporadically so the 4Runner is fine for me, but seriously, if you guys are going to make camping your thing and tow every weekend, you need to change it up to a JGC or a 460 or something that has a bit more torque. Really I would like the mass to be a bit more as well, especially in cross winds.

With that said, you can do things that I have not done that will help:
1. Airbags
2. WDH
3. Brake Controller
4. Maybe additional cooling, depending on where you are going to pull most often
5. Figure out how to be happy at 55 or 60 mph when everyone else is going 75-80 mph.

have you already found the dealership where you plan on buying a trailer? talk to them about renting or just a test tow, maybe try to negotiate if you buy having the cost applied to the purchase price? i've never bought a trailer so i have no idea if they do test tows or rentals.

another idea would just be renting a cargo trailer and loading it to a comparable load and testing out the towing. It won't be a perfect comparison because the aerodynamics will be different, but it could be a cheap sanity check.

I would look very closely at wind resistance. In my experience the 4runner is great lower speeds and struggles at highway speed due to wind resistance primarily. Hell, my 4runner struggles at 90mph empty. I've never thought any trailer I've hitched up was too heavy for easy 65mph cruising. 6000lbs of dump trailer was easy to pull. However, even my very light teardrop trailer struggles at 80mph. I've found out after using it that it's just too big of a sail back there. And for some vehicles it may not matter. For the 4runner it makes a big difference. I would prefer low roof height over low weight, but you'll compromise on interior volume as a result. If you're willing to keep the speeds down at 65mph, I think you'll be fine anywhere up to 5000lbs and maybe even a bit over. If you want to go faster - keep it small or trade for a LC200/GX460 or a truck.

Good luck!

Yes, wind resistance is major on these trucks at higher speeds. But good news is it actually gets a little better up in the thinner air. Does not make up for the loss in engine power, but mpg actually gets better.

I'm really surprised nobody has brought up gearing, that is the number one problem with the 5th gen and towing IMHO. If you run stock size tires and 456 gears it will pull much better. Gearing is the key ingredient to most factory towing packages. A trans cooler might also be needed, but the gearing will reduce some of the heat.

Still, not really great up i-70... even a full size diesel struggles a tad towing in those conditions.

People hope for a v8 option.. but guess what.. that little 4.7 is not much better up there.

Doing it and doing it comfortably are two very different things. If you are OK at 50mph with the motor screaming.... it will be fine.. Even 1500 lbs feels like an anchor on these trucks on big hills, add the altitude.. and not something I would personally enjoy.

I would highly recommend you go rent a trailer of some kind.. and go for a test drive. You will not get an actual answer here. You need first hand experience.

The 4Runner just isn't a heavy tow rig. You're in Colorado with a naturally aspirated V6 so you're already down on power due to elevation. The Runner has an off-road suspension not a heavy cargo/towing suspension hurting its ability to control a heavy trailer.

If you go heavy expect to climb and descend grades at far below the posted speed limit.


Rent a cargo trailer, load it up to the weight you expect then try it. Be realistic could you deal with that driving experience all day on a vacation?

wfo9 said:

Still, not really great up i-70... even a full size diesel struggles a tad towing in those conditions.

People hope for a v8 option.. but guess what.. that little 4.7 is not much better up there.

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I've towed from Denver to Omaha and back as well as in the mountains, gotta say I'm real glad I have a V8 4th gen, handles towing really comfortably.