0-20W oil... Is it an absolute requirement?
- Thread starter luv2eat
- Start date
Koz
New member
First off, I have never heard of a Toyota engine failure due to the oil used. The only way your warranty can be voided for an oil related engine failure is for the manufacture to prove the oil actually caused the failure. Again, all these oils are within the OEM recommended weight range and do not exceed the 30 weight limit. A used oil analysis (UOA) would easily show the oil was still providing safe protection. Now if you weren't changing the oil and the oil showed to be depleted, you would have a problem.
If you want the BEST possible oil that provides the widest climate range, use 0w-30. Also all the 0w oils are pure synthetic and usually use the best additive packages. Besides ALL pure synthetic oils are overkill if you follow the recommended oil change intervals. To run extended oil change intervals you would need to get a UOA at the end of the change interval. You should be able to run high quality pure synthetic oil for one year, easily. The oil I use (Amsoil group-IV POA 0w-30) is able to provide safe protection for up to 35K miles, under ideal conditions. I used this oil with a bypass system for over 40K miles and was still providing safe protection. UOAs is key to running extended oil change intervals and proof if you have any warranty issues.
AMSOIL - Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSO)
Koz
iDRiVaT4R
New member
I'm in So-Cal and I'm using Amsoil 0w-20. It was kinda funny when we poured the original oil from the drain pan into a container, it was flowing like water. Granted it was still warm but still, nothing I have ever seen before.
Like others have mentioned, my manual states that you can use 5w-30 if 0w-20 is not available, but to change it at 5,000 miles and then go back to 0w-20. If Toyota states to use 0W-20, that's what I'm using especially since its under warranty.
Like others have mentioned, my manual states that you can use 5w-30 if 0w-20 is not available, but to change it at 5,000 miles and then go back to 0w-20. If Toyota states to use 0W-20, that's what I'm using especially since its under warranty.
SeattleMike
New member
Actually it says:
If SAE 0W-20 is not available,
SAE 5W-20 oil may be used.
However, it must be replaced
with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil
change.
If you are savvy enough to get a Used Oil Analysis you might think it provides you with protection in case of engine failure but Toyota will be pointing you to the manufacturer of the oil if you need to file a claim. I have nothing against any particular brand of oil but I can afford the frequent oil changes other people claim they don't need. But claiming it's ok to run 30 weight oil is just more misinformation.
Forget all the "protection" talk and focus on hydrodynamics and the difference between forcing water through a garden hose versus forcing cold molasses through. The oil pump in the 5th Gen V6 was designed to run 20 weight oil max. The channels were designed to run 20 weight oil. The problem with thicker oil is that pressure builds up and pressure leads to leaks and leaks lead to failure. Is it as dramatic a difference as water and cold molasses? No usually, but time takes it's toll, as does high RPMs and hot weather. 0w-20 is the recommendation, why bother trying to second guess the people who designed the engine?
It's not a big surprise that you don't hear about engine failure due to the wrong oil. No one's going to want to admit to the world that they blew up their engine trying to save a few bucks. I mean, look how many people blamed Toyota when they jammed on the gas instead of the brake?
iDRiVaT4R
New member
Oops, thanks for clarifying.
I have been wondering about this weight of oil. I live in AZ and the temps consistently are over 105 as of lately. I just had the oil changed by Toyota after 7000 miles since summer is coming up. It was easy to watch the mechanic do it, so the next time I will do it myself. Thanks for the info on WHY to use 0w-20, the valves and oil pump.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Plain and simple, if Toyota calls for a 0w-20 then put it in your vehicle and be happy they aren't as picky as say MB or VW where you need a practical secret version number oil.
There are temperature charts that provide alternative oils for certain climates, but rarely will anyone fall into anything but the recommended 0w-20 oil.
The other major issue, particularly for you 5th gens since many are still under warranty is that you NEED to run what they tell you to keep warranty.
If something should happen to the engine and Toyota tests your oil ( they have been getting just as picky as BMW, VW, MB, and everyone else about testing the fluids now) and its not what they call for, they will void your warranty and let you cover the repair because you "failed to follow their recommendations for proper engine maintenance and operation." This is something that's starting to get big traction with a lot of manufacturers and is causing headaches for owners I'd imagine.
The good news is that it doesn't have to be a super secret TOYOTA ONLY brand 0w-20, they just want the right viscosity.
There are temperature charts that provide alternative oils for certain climates, but rarely will anyone fall into anything but the recommended 0w-20 oil.
The other major issue, particularly for you 5th gens since many are still under warranty is that you NEED to run what they tell you to keep warranty.
If something should happen to the engine and Toyota tests your oil ( they have been getting just as picky as BMW, VW, MB, and everyone else about testing the fluids now) and its not what they call for, they will void your warranty and let you cover the repair because you "failed to follow their recommendations for proper engine maintenance and operation." This is something that's starting to get big traction with a lot of manufacturers and is causing headaches for owners I'd imagine.
The good news is that it doesn't have to be a super secret TOYOTA ONLY brand 0w-20, they just want the right viscosity.
20034RunnerV84x2
New member
If it came with 0w-20, put 0w-20 in it.
Whiplash Willy
New member
A couple of "interesting" posts from that Camry Link harper posted...
Post 9:
I don't know if this guy is serious or not, but if so, he must not realize that basically all 4cyl engines are Inline, especially any 4cyl that toyota would offer....
Post 11:
First of all, you can't expect sales people to know anything about the cars they sale, even "Service Writers/Managers" typically don't know much about the cars they service...I remember taking in my brand new TDI Golf in for warranty work (Big surprise) when I picked up my Golf, the Service Manager was like "Wow, I didn't know that thing was a diesel!"...
Secondly, why is that guy so upset that the new camry's require synthetic...kind of a stupid thing to be upset about...
My only concern with 0w-20, is that it seems car manufactures now do things, like move to 0-20w for efficiency reasons only, and may not take into account the durability or reliability issues that may come from them. Will an engine designed for 0w-20 be as reliable and durable as one designed for 5w-30? A perfect example of this is that stupid Air Injection System they put on the older V8s and 2013 V6's. It adds an unreliable and expensive to fix air pump, valves, and a whole bunch of other junk at the cost of added complexity and decreased reliability. You should see all of the extra tubes/wires/devices that have been added because of this. Plus the air switching valves that block access to the middle spark plugs.
Post 9:
I don't know if this guy is serious or not, but if so, he must not realize that basically all 4cyl engines are Inline, especially any 4cyl that toyota would offer....
Post 11:
First of all, you can't expect sales people to know anything about the cars they sale, even "Service Writers/Managers" typically don't know much about the cars they service...I remember taking in my brand new TDI Golf in for warranty work (Big surprise) when I picked up my Golf, the Service Manager was like "Wow, I didn't know that thing was a diesel!"...
Secondly, why is that guy so upset that the new camry's require synthetic...kind of a stupid thing to be upset about...
My only concern with 0w-20, is that it seems car manufactures now do things, like move to 0-20w for efficiency reasons only, and may not take into account the durability or reliability issues that may come from them. Will an engine designed for 0w-20 be as reliable and durable as one designed for 5w-30? A perfect example of this is that stupid Air Injection System they put on the older V8s and 2013 V6's. It adds an unreliable and expensive to fix air pump, valves, and a whole bunch of other junk at the cost of added complexity and decreased reliability. You should see all of the extra tubes/wires/devices that have been added because of this. Plus the air switching valves that block access to the middle spark plugs.
Last edited:
swaycleveland
New member
Just a couple points to add
1. If using oem filter (or equivalent) you would have a check valve and bypass valve in the filter)
And of using a cartridge type filter the bypass and check valve are built into the filter holder. Soon
You will not have a"dry" start. Also your oil will flow without being filtered until the oil viscosity and pressure have reached a safe level.
2. And this is more as a joke then anything.....how can 0w anything be 0 are they saying it has NO viscosity? How is that possible? Truthfully it probly doesn't measure 0. Maybe something like 2.which between 2 and 5 I doubt I highly that the engine or its parts could tell. Besides the fact that all manuals will give different oil guides for different driving habits and duties.
Just me throwing out .02
1. If using oem filter (or equivalent) you would have a check valve and bypass valve in the filter)
And of using a cartridge type filter the bypass and check valve are built into the filter holder. Soon
You will not have a"dry" start. Also your oil will flow without being filtered until the oil viscosity and pressure have reached a safe level.
2. And this is more as a joke then anything.....how can 0w anything be 0 are they saying it has NO viscosity? How is that possible? Truthfully it probly doesn't measure 0. Maybe something like 2.which between 2 and 5 I doubt I highly that the engine or its parts could tell. Besides the fact that all manuals will give different oil guides for different driving habits and duties.
Just me throwing out .02
1engineer
Moderator
Here is a post I have written in the past to explain a little better:
A 4Runner will do many things but it will not travel in time. This is not 1972 and what your dad and granddad remember is not applicable today. I do not know how much you understand about synthetic fluids except that in reading your post I can assume not much. How can you be "shocked" to see Toyota putting a 0-20 Full synthetic fluid in Houston? I will try to explain.
I am citing Mobil 1 full synthetic specs as this is an average in the industry.
10W-30 Mobil 1
VI=146
Cst at 100c=10.1
Cst at 40c=63.2
0W-20 Mobil 1
VI=173
Cst at 100c=8.7
Cst at 40c=44.8
For your edification "VI" = "Viscosity Index" and "Cst" = "centistokes" which is a measurement of it's resistance to pour, or "thickness for purposes of this board. Most on here are not "Bobistheoilguy".
The higher the viscosity index the better. It means that the oil will maintain a usable viscosity over a greater range of temperatures.
As you can see the 0-20 Synthetic has a smaller delta (delta means rate of change) from 100C (212F) to 40C (100F) than the 10-30. This means that the 0-20 Fluid has a "flatter" curve throughout than the 10-30, which means that 0-20 will maintain a better viscosity throughout this temperature range.
What I explained above is really a moot point though. Either a 0W-20 or a 10W30 full synthetic will offer outstanding protection for your Houston summers. You have to remember these are full synthetics - they are different. Your engine won't be able to tell the difference under normal operating conditions.
In closing, the 0W-20 synthetic is a good all purpose choice no matter where you are in North America. The differences are small in the temperature ranges our engines operate - including Houston.
Now, break in shavings? C'mon. Toyota offers a 10 year bazillion mile warranty for under a thousand bucks on these vehicles - and they recommend their FIRST oil change to be at 10K under normal driving conditions. If you travel offroad a lot or pull a heavy trailer it is 5K. NOT 1K to get rid of "break in shavings". Do you really think they are going to offer this warranty with this maintenance schedule if there are shavings in the motor at 1K miles? No, I don't think so either. Trust the manual. It was written by some smart guys.
And a link to a thread that should answer all questions. This is for the new guys http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/109588-oil-change-0w20-wtf.html enjoy!
A 4Runner will do many things but it will not travel in time. This is not 1972 and what your dad and granddad remember is not applicable today. I do not know how much you understand about synthetic fluids except that in reading your post I can assume not much. How can you be "shocked" to see Toyota putting a 0-20 Full synthetic fluid in Houston? I will try to explain.
I am citing Mobil 1 full synthetic specs as this is an average in the industry.
10W-30 Mobil 1
VI=146
Cst at 100c=10.1
Cst at 40c=63.2
0W-20 Mobil 1
VI=173
Cst at 100c=8.7
Cst at 40c=44.8
For your edification "VI" = "Viscosity Index" and "Cst" = "centistokes" which is a measurement of it's resistance to pour, or "thickness for purposes of this board. Most on here are not "Bobistheoilguy".
The higher the viscosity index the better. It means that the oil will maintain a usable viscosity over a greater range of temperatures.
As you can see the 0-20 Synthetic has a smaller delta (delta means rate of change) from 100C (212F) to 40C (100F) than the 10-30. This means that the 0-20 Fluid has a "flatter" curve throughout than the 10-30, which means that 0-20 will maintain a better viscosity throughout this temperature range.
What I explained above is really a moot point though. Either a 0W-20 or a 10W30 full synthetic will offer outstanding protection for your Houston summers. You have to remember these are full synthetics - they are different. Your engine won't be able to tell the difference under normal operating conditions.
In closing, the 0W-20 synthetic is a good all purpose choice no matter where you are in North America. The differences are small in the temperature ranges our engines operate - including Houston.
Now, break in shavings? C'mon. Toyota offers a 10 year bazillion mile warranty for under a thousand bucks on these vehicles - and they recommend their FIRST oil change to be at 10K under normal driving conditions. If you travel offroad a lot or pull a heavy trailer it is 5K. NOT 1K to get rid of "break in shavings". Do you really think they are going to offer this warranty with this maintenance schedule if there are shavings in the motor at 1K miles? No, I don't think so either. Trust the manual. It was written by some smart guys.
And a link to a thread that should answer all questions. This is for the new guys http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/109588-oil-change-0w20-wtf.html enjoy!
Subject
Oil weight requirements.
Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (XXX XXXXX)03/08/2013 10:10 AM
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXX;
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your interest in the 2013 4Runner.
Frankly, synthetic 0W-20 would be fine in virtually all operating conditions, and all safe speeds (legal speeds) for the 4Runner. But if you anticipating considerably harsh conditions. you may opt for 0W-30.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via email or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday, and from 7 AM to 4 PM Saturday.
We have documented your comments at our National Headquarters under file XXXXXXX
Oil weight requirements.
Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (XXX XXXXX)03/08/2013 10:10 AM
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXX;
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your interest in the 2013 4Runner.
Frankly, synthetic 0W-20 would be fine in virtually all operating conditions, and all safe speeds (legal speeds) for the 4Runner. But if you anticipating considerably harsh conditions. you may opt for 0W-30.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via email or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday, and from 7 AM to 4 PM Saturday.
We have documented your comments at our National Headquarters under file XXXXXXX
1engineer
Moderator
And this means what?
diverscale
Member
I understand that we can stick to 0-20 no problem.
Toyota Motor Corp responded to a oil question I posed concerning oil viscosity selections mentioned in the owners manual.
0w20 for most conditions but under "harsh" conditions you may use 0w30.
Wow I mistakenly assumed you of all members of this forum would be able to reverse engineer that post.
BlackWorksInc
New member
I believe he meant more like, other than the 0w-30 it really doesn't explain Toyota's stance on the OP's question.
1engineer
Moderator
So you did not like what the manual recommends? Did you really ask what the oil weight requirements were? Did they define harsh conditions?
eddiebx
New member
Harsh conditions, as in conditions considerably harsher than virtually all operation conditions, duh
I really don't see what the email clarifies besides what is already stated in the manual. The manual states:
I mean sure it does not explicitly spell out use a 30 weight, but what is the next higher viscosity after 20 weight? :doh:
Call me skeptical, but I highly doubt Toyota is going to go on the record with any official (non-vague) statement about oil recommendations.
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