2010 4R 4.0 V6 Multiple Significant Oil Leaks

[Helix26404]

I'm a new poster to this forum but have been very active in 4x4Wire, YT, etc., over the years.

Last weekend my buddy was under the truck doing an inspection while I was finishing my Lightforce install up front. He found a significant oil leak that seemed to come from just under the valve cover gaskets on both sides of the engine. I couldn't believe it. My 2010 has just over 65k miles on it and has been mostly a daily driver for me here in Dallas (unfortunately). He and I were both quite convinced the leak had been there for some time, as evidenced by the various locations and dried oil residue we found (so much for the 265145678916 point inspection BS...).

When I took it to the dealer, they called me back and said that oil was leaking from the valve covers, timing chain, and the crankshaft. Basically, a complete blowout. I literally was speechless. I've driven 4Rs my entire life, putting well over 300k miles on my 92 before it had any major oil leaks.

The dealer tried to pin it on me, saying I caused an increase of pressure in the engine that caused blowouts (even though they still have not determined root cause). The truck has been meticulously maintained throughout its short life and has never seen water or anything other than some easy trails when camping.

First of all, has anyone seen something like this? Any advice for me if you have? Second, I am justified in thinking this is ridiculous, right? I've had multiple warranty repairs on this truck (ALL door lock assemblies, A/C fan blower assembly, a couple other minor ones), but this crosses the line.

Meanwhile, I'm gearing up for a big fight with my extended warranty provider, and the dealership is telling me they will have to remove the entire engine, tear it down and rebuild it.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts about this. Just some conversation will be good therapy for me. Thanks!

 

[T4Argh]

Man, that sucks!

I'm a little worried about mine myself. I have 32000 miles on mine and in the morning on cold starts I here a noticeable knocking sound that goes away when the engine is at operating temp. I drive the piss out of mine though.

Is the extended warranty 3rd party?

Good luck!

 

[IAmTodd]

I'm relatively new to the 4R scene but excess crankcase pressure can cause some significant leaks. I'd be looking into the PCV system (again not sure how that is setup on the 4R) to make sure it is venting properly. Reducing the pressure could stop the leaks.

 

[Helix26404]

Yeah, warranty is 3rd party (Old Republic, I think). According to the dealer, the PCV valve is clear, indicating it wasn't the cause of the pressure build up.

Also, the engine seems to be holding pressure in a compression test they ran overnight. I'm a bit stumped at this point. They are tearing into it further this morning to see if they can find any evidence of what happened. Whatever it is, it can't be good.

 

[N/A]

how are they saying you increased the pressure in your engine?

 

[1engineer]

I'm a new poster to this forum but have been very active in 4x4Wire, YT, etc., over the years.

Last weekend my buddy was under the truck doing an inspection while I was finishing my Lightforce install up front. He found a significant oil leak that seemed to come from just under the valve cover gaskets on both sides of the engine. I couldn't believe it. My 2010 has just over 65k miles on it and has been mostly a daily driver for me here in Dallas (unfortunately). He and I were both quite convinced the leak had been there for some time, as evidenced by the various locations and dried oil residue we found (so much for the 265145678916 point inspection BS...).

When I took it to the dealer, they called me back and said that oil was leaking from the valve covers, timing chain, and the crankshaft. Basically, a complete blowout. I literally was speechless. I've driven 4Rs my entire life, putting well over 300k miles on my 92 before it had any major oil leaks.

The dealer tried to pin it on me, saying I caused an increase of pressure in the engine that caused blowouts (even though they still have not determined root cause). The truck has been meticulously maintained throughout its short life and has never seen water or anything other than some easy trails when camping.

First of all, has anyone seen something like this? Any advice for me if you have? Second, I am justified in thinking this is ridiculous, right? I've had multiple warranty repairs on this truck (ALL door lock assemblies, A/C fan blower assembly, a couple other minor ones), but this crosses the line.

Meanwhile, I'm gearing up for a big fight with my extended warranty provider, and the dealership is telling me they will have to remove the entire engine, tear it down and rebuild it.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts about this. Just some conversation will be good therapy for me. Thanks!

Let me get this straight:
Multiple oil leaks? Valve covers, timing chain, crank?
All door lock assemblies?
AC fan blower assembly?
More?

You wouldn't happen to have any documentation from the dealer you could share with us do you? Maybe pictures?

 

[Helix26404]

Sure. Here are a few pictures. It was hard to get my iPhone up there, but they give you a general idea. Four of them are various points in the engine where oil has caked up. One is of a bolt in between the two skid plates. I couldn't place it because it was hard to see, but this bolt has fresh oil on it. Probably the lowest point of the vehicle before it drops off.

One note--to me, the first picture showing the oil under the valve covers, it seems that is actually a bit lower than the valve covers...maybe cam seals?

I have all of the receipts from the various warranty repairs over the past couple of years.

 

[T4Argh]

Sure. Here are a few pictures. It was hard to get my iPhone up there, but they give you a general idea. Four of them are various points in the engine where oil has caked up. One is of a bolt in between the two skid plates. I couldn't place it because it was hard to see, but this bolt has fresh oil on it. Probably the lowest point of the vehicle before it drops off.

One note--to me, the first picture showing the oil under the valve covers, it seems that is actually a bit lower than the valve covers...maybe cam seals?

I have all of the receipts from the various warranty repairs over the past couple of years.

Hmm...that actually doesn't look bad....Did you check the oil level after you found the leaks?

I'm just guessing but wouldn't high pressure result in high engine temp?

 

[Helix26404]

Trust me, it is bad. The pictures only capture certain areas I was able to get my iPhone to. The residue, both old and new, is all over the place under the engine.

Just spoke to service manager and here is the next challenge. The warranty company is flat refusing to pay dealership what they are asking for to fix this problem. Reason being, there is no published labor guidelines for this type of problem for an engine this new, because the engine doesn't have an external oil cooler. Previous models did, which accounts for the delta between what the warranty company is willing to pay for and dealership needs to fix it.

Dealership is escalating to Toyota to get documentation showing number of hours needed to fix this, but they are coming up with nothing, as well.

This is becoming a mess.

 

[TOY2G]

Man, that sucks!

I'm a little worried about mine myself. I have 32000 miles on mine and in the morning on cold starts I here a noticeable knocking sound that goes away when the engine is at operating temp. I drive the piss out of mine though.

Is the extended warranty 3rd party?

Good luck!

SAME^ on my 2013 with 24k

 

[JohnJerk]

What oil weight do you use?

 

[Helix26404]

Me? Synthetic 0W20 each time, performed by dealer.

 

[Antman]

Just spoke to service manager and here is the next challenge. The warranty company is flat refusing to pay dealership what they are asking for to fix this problem. Reason being, there is no published labor guidelines for this type of problem for an engine this new, because the engine doesn't have an external oil cooler. Previous models did, which accounts for the delta between what the warranty company is willing to pay for and dealership needs to fix it.

What's this then? Something here doesn't sound right...

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Me? Synthetic 0W20 each time, performed by dealer.

Have you had all of your services done at that dealership? If so, I am surprised they aren't more willing to help you out with this, especially since you are only 5k miles out of warranty. I would ask them why their "Multi-Point" inspections didn't find this problem earlier, possibly limiting some of the damage done.

It isn't unheard of for dealers/manufactures to step up and atleast help you out a little to a major failure that close to your warranty cutoff, especially if you are a regular customer to their service department. And if they have been doing all of the service, it should have been performed correctly....Right?

Also, isn't it normal for our engines to be a little loud until warmed up?

 

[Helix26404]

What's this then? Something here doesn't sound right...

View attachment 110321

Sounded strange to me also but I had no rebuttal ready when he told me this on the phone. Thanks for all of the questions and points. Helping me to build a better case with the dealership I bought the truck at (out of town), the current dealership, and the external warranty provider.

A side question. How often is it that a dealership will sell a non-factory extended warranty (not even offer it) on a new vehicle?

 

[T4Argh]

Also, isn't it normal for our engines to be a little loud until warmed up?

I under stand some engines are loud until warmed up but what about a knocking sound? Maybe this needs a new thread :nerd:

 

[Socalrugger]

I under stand some engines are loud until warmed up but what about a knocking sound? Maybe this needs a new thread :nerd:

Probably a different thread but I have been noticing a slight knocking as well...just reached 21k miles

 

[Helix26404]

Ok, I called back to get more information. I got it backwards. Mine DOES have an external cooler, so I apologize for miscommunicating that. They were using that as an example of the additional labor necessary to complete the repair.

Essentially, they are saying is that because this vehicle is so new, Toyota has not yet published detailed labor guides for specific work like engine teardown and repair. For instance, they give a general labor estimate for broad things (fixing various leaks here and there, etc.), ~ 15 hours, but NOT for something this comprehensive, including the removal of the engine and all components, complete teardown, repairing of the leaks, which the dealer is estimating at anywhere between 30-35-40 hours all in. They have been speaking with Toyota and supposedly they don't have enough data yet on this year vehicle and its various engine revisions to publish a specific labor guide that would cover labor on all of the parts and work being done. They are saying it will be another year to collect the necessary statistics.

Thus, 3rd party warranty company is refusing to grant additional hours needed, claiming the non-specific rate of 20 hrs is sufficient to complete all of this work.

Does that sound realistic or not?

 

[thebwlife]

Add this to the list of 1,000,000 reasons why I would never buy a non factory warranty....

I've preached this time and time again - those warranty company hardly ever payout. Same with home warranties on pre-owned houses. They make up a huge complaint section with the BBB....

 

[Helix26404]

Add this to the list of 1,000,000 reasons why I would never buy a non factory warranty....

I've preached this time and time again - those warranty company hardly ever payout. Same with home warranties on pre-owned houses. They make up a huge complaint section with the BBB....

FWIW, I already feel stupid about that. I honestly didn't realize it was non-factory when I purchased the truck. When I filed my first claim and the service adviser couldn't find my "factory warranty", that's when I realized. They pitched it exactly as they pitched the factory warranties (silver/gold/platinum) and they had identical specs. It was pitched as a Toyota warranty and I never had reason to question it. So I agree with you, and have never done this in the past and would never have done it knowingly.